Be honest: is SCing on a long trip annoying?

[jerry33]

What really matters is the user experience. Even for the extremes of the spectrum where by almost all accounts an ICE does objectively 'better' than a tesla [currently does], nobody in this thread would trade their S/X for an ICE because the overall tesla experience is far superior.

My experience has been that the ICE doesn't do better on long trips. The lack of engine vibration makes the trip much more relaxing and you (or at least I) tend to be not nearly as exhausted at the end of the driving day. On my long trips (and some have been over 5K miles) the total travel time is no different. With an ICE, you just want to get it over with. With a Tesla it's something to enjoy.

 

[SmartElectric]

I have never used a Supercharger, but will be soon on my X 90D for a 1,000 mile trip from South Jersey to Kissimmee, FL. Can someone explain why EV Trip Planner estimates 6 hours of charging for this trip?

1000 miles
average 350 watt hours per mile = .35 kWh/mile
average 60 kW charging (as others outlined, charge starts at 110kW at low battery and slowly drops to 40 kW when battery is 80% full, so average is around 60 kW in my experience

1000*.350/60 = 5.8 hours

So yeah, about 6 hours.

 

[wdolson]

I have never used a Supercharger, but will be soon on my X 90D for a 1,000 mile trip from South Jersey to Kissimmee, FL. Can someone explain why EV Trip Planner estimates 6 hours of charging for this trip? If Superchargers add 300 miles of range per hour and you start with a full charge, in my mind it should be about half of what Trip Planner estimates in the quote above. Please tell me it's not going to require 6 hours of en-route charging for this trip.

What data did you put in for the car, speed, temperature, etc. I was once planning out a possible trip with EV Trip Planner and it was routing me through every SC and telling me I'd be arriving as some on low charge. I went back and noticed I had accidentally put in an S 60 instead of an S 90D. When I put in the right car, the trip mapped out much better.

As others have said, the Xs aren't in the trip planner yet, so I used a S 90D with 21 inch wheels, which should get a bit better range than an X 90D. The other factors were:

Speed multiplier = 1.1
Cabin Temp = 74
Ext Temp = 85
Payload = 500 (a family plus luggage is at least this much unless you're all unusually thin)

I put in Atlantic City, NJ to Kissimmee, FL and I get Driving time of 16:18 and a charging time of 4:34 with an average energy useage of 360 Wh/Mi. Reducing the speed to the speed limit changes the driving time to 17:56 and the charge time to 3:57.

 

[dgpcolorado]

1000 miles
average 350 watt hours per mile = .35 kWh/mile
average 60 kW charging (as others outlined, charge starts at 110kW at low battery and slowly drops to 40 kW when battery is 80% full, so average is around 60 kW in my experience

1000*.350/60 = 5.8 hours

So yeah, about 6 hours.

Except that the first 150-200 miles (depending on the farthest Supercharger Station location that can be reached) ought to be with no charging, due to starting out with a full charge from home.

 

[SmartElectric]

Except that the first 150-200 miles (depending on the farthest Supercharger Station location that can be reached) ought to be with no charging, due to starting out with a full charge from home.

Like I said "about". Sheesh. It's not like I listed any rules... 350 wH/mile was a guess for example...

 

[bxr140]

My experience has been that the ICE doesn't do better on long trips. The lack of engine vibration makes the trip much more relaxing and you (or at least I) tend to be not nearly as exhausted at the end of the driving day.

Opinions vary, of course.

Compare a $100k tesla against a $100k s-class...what the merc loses in vibes it makes up in overall noise damping and suspension comfort.

Thankfully for tesla, the future is on their side. There's plenty of room for the S/X chassis to develop relative to the S/7/8.

 

[Mike K]

My experience has been that the ICE doesn't do better on long trips. The lack of engine vibration makes the trip much more relaxing and you (or at least I) tend to be not nearly as exhausted at the end of the driving day. On my long trips (and some have been over 5K miles) the total travel time is no different. With an ICE, you just want to get it over with. With a Tesla it's something to enjoy.

Are you comparing ICE vehicles of similar pricing/ demographic because objectively that's an untrue statement. Before the Tesla I had an A8L and a 535D and both were great cars. The 535D was a diesel and it was so deceptively smooth you could barely tell it was on. Truth be told, when we're road tripping I miss either of those cars. The Tesla is amazing but supercharging is a pain in the ass. Today we had the misfortune of driving from Phoenix to Los Angeles in 115 degree heat with a strong headwind. The combination of the air conditioning and the headwind conspired to reduce efficiency to the point that on one stretch between the Buckeye and Quartzsite superchargers we expended 153 miles of rated range to travel 98 miles.

Couple that with the fact that Tesla's rated range is basically a lie for any speed over say 65mph - necessitating an arbitrary buffer at every supercharger stop - and I'd go back in time and embrace either the A8 or 535D for road trip duty any day of the week and I say that as someone that thinks the Model S is objectively the best all around car you can buy right now. The inconvenience of supercharging lasts much longer than the novelty of free travel.

To touch on the broader topic of this post, there's a cost to driving this car on roadtrips: time and peace of mind. Supercharging is only one half of the equation. The other half is in between superchargers when you're limiting your speed to either a) make it to the next charger or b) reduce your charge time at the next charger. And both slow you down. In my previous cars I might cruise at 90mph. In the Tesla it's generally between 70 and 85 depending on state of charge and distance to the next charger. So not only is the charging adding time to my trip but the slower average speed while I'm driving is adding time to my trip. If you're someone that religiously drives 65mph maybe this isn't as much of a problem to you.

 

[purplewalt]

Are you comparing ICE vehicles of similar pricing/ demographic because objectively that's an untrue statement. Before the Tesla I had an A8L and a 535D and both were great cars. The 535D was a diesel and it was so deceptively smooth you could barely tell it was on. Truth be told, when we're road tripping I miss either of those cars. The Tesla is amazing but supercharging is a pain in the ass. Today we had the misfortune of driving from Phoenix to Los Angeles in 115 degree heat with a strong headwind. The combination of the air conditioning and the headwind conspired to reduce efficiency to the point that on one stretch between the Buckeye and Quartzsite superchargers we expended 153 miles of rated range to travel 98 miles.

...And the speed which you are driving.

Any car is less effective/efficient driving under those conditions: those are the laws of physics.
You only had a gas tank indicator to rely on in the Audi and the BMW, and probably did not spend much time analyzing how much fuel you were burning.

The Tesla gives you accurate up-to-the-minute reports on the remaining amount of charge in your pack, so comparing it to your other cars under more favorable conditions is not appropriate.
Yes, driving 90 mph is fun, but probably not legal in most areas in the US.

The Model S can do 90 mph in the heat and the strong headwind, but it will use energy quicker at that rate of speed.
ALL cars will do the same.
Most cars are designed to perform the sweet spot of 65 to 75 mph, and the Model S is most effective at speeds around 65 mph.

 

[cfsaxNY]

So I love how Tesla has more or less eliminated range anxiety with their rapid buildout of SCs nationwide in the US. But I've been mapping out some long trips on evtripplanner.com. Because SCs are currently spaced so that you really can't afford to skip one (even if you have the 90D), it seems like the longest you can drive (on average) in a leg is about 2 or 2.5 hours. Then you have to stop for 30-60 minutes.

For those who've done significant long distance trips, doesn't this get tiring/annoying? Compare it to an ICE car where you could literally go 4-5 hours without stopping (and maybe more) if you wanted to.

I personally need the bathroom breaks. Also sitting for longer than 2 hours is not good for my back.

 

[Mike K]

...And the speed which you are driving.

Any car is less effective/efficient driving under those conditions: those are the laws of physics.
You only had a gas tank indicator to rely on in the Audi and the BMW, and probably did not spend much time analyzing how much fuel you were burning.

The Model S can do 90 mph in the heat and the strong headwind, but it will use energy quicker at that rate of speed.
ALL cars will do the same.
Most cars are designed to perform the sweet spot of 65 to 75 mph, and the Model S is most effective at speeds around 65 mph.

The topic is about supercharging being a pain in the butt, not whether other cars are also less efficient at higher speeds, higher temperatures and driving into a headwind which is a given. So I feel as if you're responding to a point I didn't make. But to respond to your point, the difference between an ICE vehicle at those speeds and a Tesla is that the Tesla might need to add another supercharger stop (which I did yesterday) whereas the ICE in this particular situation wouldn't have needed to gas up again and even if it did, that would have taken 5 minutes. I do that speed in the Tesla on that stretch regularly. Once a month. Yesterday the contributing factor to my decline in efficiency was the outside temperature and headwind.

The Tesla gives you accurate up-to-the-minute reports on the remaining amount of charge in your pack, so comparing it to your other cars under more favorable conditions is not appropriate.
Yes, driving 90 mph is fun, but probably not legal in most areas in the US.

This is such a load of snot. Tesla's range estimator is wrong so often. The amount of times I've pulled out of a supercharger with the car saying it would have 40% at the next supercharger and then pull in to the next one with 15% is countless. It's almost every time. It has no foresight because it doesn't look at past driving like just about any other car on the road does. If it did it would see that I'm driving at 90mph, that my average wh consumption is x, assume that I'm going to continue driving in that fashion and send me on my way with enough juice to allow that. My BMW i3 does that. Basically every gas engine car does that. Not the Model S. Search for yourself how many stories there are of people that say had they left the supercharger when the car told them they could continue on their trip, they'd be stranded. So with all due respect, accurate and up to the minute 5 minutes after I've left the charger is basically useless. Give me accurate and up to the minute as I'm charging. That would make life easier.

 

[Mike K]

Sorry to be a grumpy Gus. There's just a whole heck of a lot of blind fanboys on this site that refuse to admit there are any compromises with these cars. Either they came from a Prius or they lack any kind of objectivity. The Tesla is an amazing car but it's an amazing car with some glaring faults and a few compromises. Once people understand that they can admit that without taking anything from the car's greatness the conversations can get a little more honest.

 

[skrenes]

I'll add my 2c. I live in Calgary and drive to Vancouver two or three times a year, which is just shy of 1000 km from home to destination. With an ICE, it would theoretically take about 10.5 hours, but factor in lunch and bathroom breaks and it's closer to 12 hours. At about 9 hours of driving, I would hit a mental brick wall and not be able to pay attention to driving, so I would have to stop for the night. I've never made it all the way in one go. Yet, with my Model S, I have had no problem doing it in one go. I hit every supercharger stop and in less time than it takes for my kids to go to the bathroom and get back in the car, my Model S is ready to go. We literally NEVER wait for the car. And it takes about 12 hours to get to Vancouver, but when I arrive, I still have energy. I guess it's akin to pacing yourself in a marathon (Model S) vs sprinting off the line (ICE).

So from personal experience, I'll say that I can do more driving with the Model S -- the supercharger breaks actually result in more driving in a day -- go figure!

 

[KublaConn]

In my previous cars I might cruise at 90mph. In the Tesla it's generally between 70 and 85 depending on state of charge and distance to the next charger. So not only is the charging adding time to my trip but the slower average speed while I'm driving is adding time to my trip. If you're someone that religiously drives 65mph maybe this isn't as much of a problem to you.

So, your complaint seems to be that the vehicle doesn't abet you in your endeavor to egregiously flout the law as much as you would like? There are many here who would consider that a feature, rather than a "bug". "Someone that religiously drives 65mph..."? I never realized that all those speed limit signs were actually religious icons.

You go on to complain in another comment that the rated miles estimator doesn't take into account that you plan on egregiously exceeding the posted speed limit. I don't find this all that surprising. They will assist you in your endeavor as far as involves staying within legal bounds, but any illegal actions on your part will also require adjustments to your expections to be done on your own part. That seems reasonable to me. Imagine the legal action they would open themselves up to if they didn't do this. "But the fact that the vehicles have settings and estimations for 90mph is a clear indication that Tesla is encouraging drivers to break the law, your honor!" You may scoff at the notion, but believe me, cases have been won with way more ludicrous claims.

I'm not trying to jump on my high horse here and hold myself up as some sort of shining example of law abidance when it comes to interstate travel. Like a good many of my fellow drivers, on long freeway trips I set my cruise control to the standard "upper limit of tolerance" for most LEOs, which is about 8-9mph over the posted limit. What I won't do is demand my personal decision to break the law to be somehow built into the vehicles tolerances and estimations.

 

[mikeash]

In my previous cars I might cruise at 90mph. In the Tesla it's generally between 70 and 85 depending on state of charge and distance to the next charger. So not only is the charging adding time to my trip but the slower average speed while I'm driving is adding time to my trip. If you're someone that religiously drives 65mph maybe this isn't as much of a problem to you.

That's crazy. Do you enjoy paying speeding tickets? Just FYI, don't try that in Virginia, anything over 80MPH is automatically Reckless Driving, and our judges like to start handing out jail sentences at 90MPH.

I typically do 5 over, and never intentionally exceed 10 over. Anything more is just asking for The Man to give you unwanted attention, and how much time will that cost you?

 

[buckerine]

I hit every supercharger stop and in less time than it takes for my kids to go to the bathroom and get back in the car, my Model S is ready to go. We literally NEVER wait for the car.

How is this possible unless you guys typically take 20-30 minutes to use the bathroom? Bathroom breaks take us 10 minute tops? We don't eat a dirt excessive in fiber though.

 

[KJD]

Tesla's range estimator is wrong so often. The amount of times I've pulled out of a supercharger with the car saying it would have 40% at the next supercharger and then pull in to the next one with 15% is countless. It's almost every time. It has no foresight because it doesn't look at past driving like just about any other car on the road does.

Are you looking at "rated" range or "projected" range?

 

[KJD]

How is this possible unless you guys typically take 20-30 minutes to use the bathroom? Bathroom breaks take us 10 minute tops? We don't eat a dirt excessive in fiber though.

You have never traveled with any of my lady friends that I am sure of.

They do not eat dirt either.

 

[skrenes]

How is this possible unless you guys typically take 20-30 minutes to use the bathroom? Bathroom breaks take us 10 minute tops? We don't eat a dirt excessive in fiber though.

Haha! The children's bathroom breaks at every supercharger takes about 10 minutes. That's what we do for the first two superchargers (Canmore and Golden). At the third supercharger (Revelstoke), we have lunch, which inevitably takes some 40 minutes (I've tried to speed this up, but I always seem to fail). Then the fourth supercharger (Kamloops) we spend probably 15-20 minutes since there's a visitor center that my kids love exploring, and towards the end of the day, they need longer breaks or start complaining an hour into driving. The last supercharger (Hope) is where we eat dinner (another 40 minutes). We then arrive at our destination in Vancouver with around 40% SOC, so we could definitely cut down on charging, but kids are the weakest link in the system, hence the car always waiting for us.

 

[jvonbokel]

Those of us who aren't that young anymore stop about every 150 miles regardless

On my two longest road trips thus far (~1200mi and ~850mi), I had two passengers in the 50+ age bracket, and we spent less time waiting for the car to charge than the car spent waiting for us to "discharge".

 

[jerry33]

How is this possible unless you guys typically take 20-30 minutes to use the bathroom? Bathroom breaks take us 10 minute tops? We don't eat a dirt excessive in fiber though.

When we traveled from DFW to Seattle last July, most of the time the car was charged enough by the time we got back from the pit stop--15 minutes or less. Generally, family members want to purchase drinks as well so that adds a few minutes to the stop. Stops would take longer in the winter, but most of our SC driving is done in moderate conditions.

A typical trip pattern is SC, SC, SC-lunch, SC, SC night stop. Sometimes there is one more SC squeezed in depending.