Be honest: is SCing on a long trip annoying?

[Owner]

Ha! Check out San Mateo -- an upscale mall with a fitness center. So many locals clog the SC while working out that Tesla actually has an employee sitting next to the stalls monitoring their usage. He admitted he couldn't actually enforce any rules of etiquette but it was Tesla's attempt at mitigating the problem without actually hurting anyone's feelings.

San Mateo is not an upscale mall. Its a smallish and packed Whole Foods with a few non-fancy eating places and gym somewhere.
I doubt all that many are working out.

 

[brucet999]

I honestly don't care how inconvenient/annoying it is to stop at superchargers. I would much rather do that than drive a noisy, slow, vibrating ICE that can't even drive itself. We forget how mind numbing just engine vibration is, let alone noise, slow acceleration and lack of AP.

What had you been driving before? Apparently nothing in Model S class. Our Lexus had lots of power and was at least as quiet inside the cabin at freeway speeds as the Tesla. It suffers by comparison only in lack of auto-steer, acceleration from a stop, and the lag time to spool up when overtaking a vehicle on two-lane roads. Well, now that I think of it, Lexus also suffers from being ugly by comparison and no fun to drive on mountain roads.

 

[Shock-On-T]

By definition of the word average, half the SCs will be below average and half above average. However, in terms of the threshold of acceptability, they're the only game in town and it's not close.

I've been waylaid by awful Nav directions to/from SCs much more than I have experienced snafu'd SCs by virtue of location or implementation. And the former have improved somewhat.

Quartzsite is an example of a below average SC only because the restrooms smell terrible and the cleanliness of the restaurant suspect. But access to the SC is above average both coming and going, and it has never been close to full. So there's that.

That SC in Florida that is accessible only via toll road exit (and a no-cash-accepted toll road exit at that) is interesting. Expect a bill in 3 weeks from the State for using that one. It's a nicely formatted bill. The picture of my car was completely black so evidently they read plates separately.

There's a lot of work left yet for the national SC infrastructure (DISTANCE), and challenges looming to stay ahead of DENSITY, but Tesla has committed to both insofar as their SC deployments go.

So far, the Great Supercharger Wasteland (I-10 from Tucson to San Antonio) aside, along with all of the other missed 2014/2015/2016 targeted locations, there are glimmers of hope - deploying SCs at most SvCs for public use is brilliant, and now it becomes a matter of execution for Elon's 2x goal in less than 18 months.

Actually that's the definition of the word 'median'.
Sorry, my inner pedant needs to breathe sometimes.
If three people have $1 and $2 and $9, on average they have $4 ($12 total split 3 ways). Two of them have less than average, and one has more than average.
I apologize again, I have a problem and I'm dealing with it the best I can...

 

[TaoJones]

Actually that's the definition of the word 'median'.
Sorry, my inner pedant needs to breathe sometimes.
If three people have $1 and $2 and $9, on average they have $4 ($12 total split 3 ways). Two of them have less than average, and one has more than average.
I apologize again, I have a problem and I'm dealing with it the best I can...

*chuckle* I sit corrected. Pretty good clarifier there, btw.

Now, over there, past the trees, is a forest. And in that forest, slightly less than half the SCs suck, and slightly less than half are absolutely fabulous.

What? That's not better?

 

[Shock-On-T]

*chuckle* I sit corrected. Pretty good clarifier there, btw.

Now, over there, past the trees, is a forest. And in that forest, slightly less than half the SCs suck, and slightly less than half are absolutely fabulous.

What? That's not better?

Now that I can agree with

 

[bxr140]

I wonder if there's a newness factor involved...

No doubt the newest owners are more likely to get sticker shock over longer total trip times (as ownership ratios moves from the geeky/techy crowd toward the 'mainstream' crowd), but overall I think most people know what they're getting themselves into. I've made this point upthread already, but certainly there's a new/fun/different factor that comes with supercharging--I think that actually makes it easier for newer owners to look past the increase in trip time, as opposed to higher mileage owners who find supercharging to be a bit more old hat.

This thread is all about personalities and interpretations. While a lot of it swirls around interpretation of 'annoying', Its really about how people weigh user experience against trip time, and more specifically the typically better Tesla user experience with the typically longer trip times. What's important is to understand that its not a binary trade. The scale tips both ways...to varying degrees...for everyone...often during the same trip.

 

[cpa]

*chuckle* I sit corrected. Pretty good clarifier there, btw.

Now, over there, past the trees, is a forest. And in that forest, slightly less than half the SCs suck, and slightly less than half are absolutely fabulous.

What? That's not better?

Technically, wrong again. (Sorry TJ) Use of less versus fewer varies with whether we can count the objects. Objects that are counted, like Superchargers require fewer, while objects like mustard on a hot dog require less.

So, "Slightly fewer than half the SC's suck, and slightly fewer than half are absolutely fabulous." But I use slightly less mustard on my hot dogs than my wife."

Sorry for the pedantry, but just trying to make things ship shape, as it were.

 

[TaoJones]

Technically, wrong again. (Sorry TJ) Use of less versus fewer varies with whether we can count the objects. Objects that are counted, like Superchargers require fewer, while objects like mustard on a hot dog require less.

So, "Slightly fewer than half the SC's suck, and slightly fewer than half are absolutely fabulous." But I use slightly less mustard on my hot dogs than my wife."

Sorry for the pedantry, but just trying to make things ship shape, as it were.

But look at the pretty trees, even if there are fewer now! And for the sake of accuracy, the majority of SCs are just peachy, to be sure. Those that has been sited suboptimally seem to mostly be at malls.

Fewer, less, average, mean, median, forest, trees. Good lawd almighty.

Look! Earnings call on Wednesday!

Such pretty trees...

 

[fallen888]

for people of a certain age a rest stop every 2-3 hours is most welcome.
ymmv

Totally agree. For someone with lower back problems, it's not good to sit in the same position for a long time - back gets pretty stiff. I find it necessary to get up, stretch my legs and loosen up the back every so often.

 

[Ciaopec]

for people of a certain age a rest stop every 2-3 hours is most welcome.
ymmv

Totally agree. For someone with lower back problems, it's not good to sit in the same position for a long time - back gets pretty stiff. I find it necessary to get up, stretch my legs and loosen up the back every so often.

Agreed! The only annoying thing for me is when there are no other Tesla folks to hang with.

 

[fallen888]

Haha. First world problems.

 

[brucet999]

But I use slightly less mustard on my hot dogs than my wife."

As for me, I use a little mustard on my hot dogs, but not on my wife.

 

[aus]

For the OP, all theses people are assuming you can drive up to an SC and just plug in.
In California, you can expect a wait at most SC's during normal driving hours, and on long weekends, it's been HOURS to plug in at some SC's. This is only going to get worse as more MX and M3's are built... even with Tesla increasing the number of SC's.

Also consider, many SC's don't charge as fast as they're suppose to. My wife was plugged in for 15 minutes the other day before she realized she was charging at 70A!! She was able to move to another charger, but that's not always the case.

As for taking a break every 2-3 hours of driving, that sounds fine, but do you really need a 40 minute (under IDEAL conditions) break, that could extend to hours??
.

 

[jerry33]

As for taking a break every 2-3 hours of driving, that sounds fine, but do you really need a 40 minute (under IDEAL conditions) break, that could extend to hours??

Unless it's really cold out, this doesn't seem right. Unless stopping for lunch, most charging stops are 15 minutes or less. By the time we get back from the pit stop, the car is ready. You only charge enough to get to the next stop plus a little extra just in case.

 

[aus]

Calling out member "Model S M.D." Why the DISLIKE on my post?? Cowardly move. It's not like I'm giving an opinion... just he facts. Funny how some members here try to hide the truth to potential buyers/members.

jerry33, I can only speak from my PERSONAL experience in Socal. I was just at a SC last night. I had around 85 miles left and the car said it would take 1 hr to charge to 90% for my 85. It actually took around 50 minutes. All chargers were being used and the guy next to me was there first and must have been very low when he plugged in since he was gone from his car when I was finally able to plug in (after waiting about 10-15 minutes). We had charged about 20 minutes before he came back.
Maybe the SC are slow when they're all being used? They were busy the whole time I was there on a Sat night.

 

[bxr140]

In California, you can expect a wait at most SC's during normal driving hours, and on long weekends, it's been HOURS to plug in at some SC's.

Lets keep it 100 here. That's simply not true.

1. There are some CA superchargers that are known to often have a wait, but most of them are in Tesla dense areas where its more likely that locals are filling the queue, and most of those chargers are NOT required for travel between cities.
2. There are no doubt some intercity CA superchargers that can sometimes fill up and even have short waits during peak weekend travel hours.
3. There is ONE incident of massive wait times (Tejongate) that often gets cited as proof that the sky is falling. That problem was completely solved by opening the 10 stall Buttonwillow charger, 40 miles up the road.

I frequently drive what is no doubt the busiest mid-haul Tesla route in the country (Bay Area<-->Socal). I have NEVER experienced a wait at ANY charger along the route (except Burbank, and I knew that was coming...), and that includes president's, memorial, and independence day weekends this year. To be clear, that's not presented as a [false] positive that waits are non-existent, its countering your quoted statement above.

This is only going to get worse as more MX and M3's are built... even with Tesla increasing the number of SC's.

Its too early to make that call based on understanding of today's technology.
1. We have no idea what supercharging looks like on the M3, or how many people will be involved
2. We have no idea what the SC network buildout really looks like, especially beyond the "doubling" statement made at the M3 reveal
3. Supercharger cabinets will continue to be upgraded--the latest is 145kw--thus decreasing the impact of pairing events
4. Battery capacity will increase over time, increasing range and thus reducing the per-charge kwh demand
5. Battery capacity will increase over time, increasing charge power/taper and reducing the charge time at each stop
6. Battery cost will decrease over time, allowing more people to afford 'bigger' batteries, decreasing kwh/charge
7. Vehicle efficiency will increase over time, increasing range and reducing kwh/charge

Also consider, many SC's don't charge as fast as they're suppose to. My wife was plugged in for 15 minutes the other day before she realized she was charging at 70A!! She was able to move to another charger, but that's not always the case.

And this is most often due to pedestal pairing. Its occasionally a hardware issue or heat/demand related throttling (or a cold battery), but quite frankly, if an owner doesn't cite a confirmation from Tesla that there's a problem, I side with the odds that the owner just doesn't understand the nuances of supercharger pairing.

 

[aus]

BARSTOW (Supercharger) BLUES: 2.5 HR WAIT | Tesla Motors

Long Queues Cause Multi-Hour Wait For Tejon Ranch Tesla Supercharger -- Here's Why It Was The Perfect Storm

Tough one: Lines at Supercharging stations? | Tesla Motors

Tesla Owners Frustrated by Recharge Waits

My experience with Superchargers: A concern after 4 visits. Will Tesla be able to respond to Supercharger capacity/utilization constraints? • /r/teslamotors

Should I go on??

 

[bxr140]

BARSTOW (Supercharger) BLUES: 2.5 HR WAIT | Tesla Motors

https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/barstow-supercharger-blues-25-hr-wait

One guy waits 1:15. Not systemic. Doesn't support your assertion.

Long Queues Cause Multi-Hour Wait For Tejon Ranch Tesla Supercharger -- Here's Why It Was The Perfect Storm

The wait I mentioned.

Tough one: Lines at Supercharging stations? | Tesla Motors

3 year old thread, no wait time to charge discussed. Doesn't support your assertion.

Tesla Owners Frustrated by Recharge Waits

One year old thread about the Amsterdam charger. Not California. Doesn't support your assertion.

My experience with Superchargers: A concern after 4 visits. Will Tesla be able to respond to Supercharger capacity/utilization constraints? • /r/teslamotors

A two year old thread about the delaware charger. No wait time to charge discussed. Doesn't support your assertion.

Should I go on??

As long as you leave the spin out of it and just keep it factual.

 

[TaoJones]

For the OP, all theses people are assuming you can drive up to an SC and just plug in.
In California, you can expect a wait at most SC's during normal driving hours,
...
Also consider, many SC's don't charge as fast as they're suppose to.
.

Short the stock much, do ya?

"A wait at most SCs..."

Absolutely false.

"many SCs don't charge as fast as they're suppose (sic) to."

Define many. You are aware that there are statewide FlexAlerts during which power is throttled, right? And that's just one reason why a given pedestal or site charges at a lower rate.

You need to get out more. I've visited just shy of 200 SCs continent-wide in a little over a year, and live in California when I'm not on the road. With exactly 4 exceptions I have not had to wait at any SC at any time ever. And 2 of those times were at SJC, which will remain a chokepoint until the OC has at least as many SCs as LA County and they build an SC in North (San Diego) County.

There is not, has not been, nor will ever be a wait "at most SCs" in California or anywhere else.

Holiday weekends are hardly a valid metric against which to measure network success over time. Put another way, the exception does not the rule make.

Further, 2/3 of homes in America have garages. Most S/X owners today do not use SCs. Most M3 owners won't either. Exactly what are you afraid of? Either you believe that Tesla can manage capacity and demand or you don't. Naysayers predicted the collapse of the SC network after Model S production ramped up. It didn't. And then again after the arrival of the X. It didn't.

And before the handwringing starts about the M3, do the math: at peak, fully half of production is not for the domestic market. Charging times will only get faster. Options will increase - ChaDeMo (see the AeroVironment $19.95/month full-strength unlimited use plan, which is as close to free as it gets) and Level 2 will continue to fill the gaps (a new Costco opened in LA County with ~12 chargers).

And yet somehow the only frictionless fast charging network is going to collapse under its own weight when today it is 97% underutilized and less than 50% complete?

Good luck with that.

 

[thecloud]

As someone who uses California superchargers on trips, and only occasionally has had to wait in a line for more than a few minutes, I have to agree that this "waiting for hours!!" fear-mongering is not based in reality.

The articles that were referenced above expressed the same kinds of fears, a year or two ago, about how well the superchargers would scale with all the new Teslas on the road. Well, we're now living in that future, but Tesla has increased the number of superchargers in the meantime, and has plans to keep opening more.

There are always stalls available if you don't insist on traveling at peak times like the end of a long weekend. I've heard people say that it's "completely unacceptable" to consider altering their travel plans in any way from what they are used to with ICE vehicles. Personally, I find that I prefer driving when traffic isn't at its heaviest, and the 30-minute pit stops keep me from feeling wiped out at the end of the day.