Best Tires/Wheels for Tracking Model 3

[Perry]

There is. I’m running 18x9.5 +39 and the tightest clearance spot is the inside of the rim. 19 inch wheels would have slightly more clearance to the inside of the rim. MPP is running 19x10s +35, a mm less inside clearance than 19x9.5 +40.

Then maybe I'll go with 19x9.5 +40. How much inner clearance do you think I'll have?

I measured the inside clearance I have now with stock 18x8.5 +40 and its only about 5/8". But going from 8.5 to 9.5 at same offset would cause 1/2" less clearance on both sides of the rim. This will leave only 1/8" inner clearance which is absurdly small. Yes going from 18" to 19" diameter gives you a little more but how much more over that tiny 1/8"?

 

[Daniel in SD]

Then maybe I'll go with 19x9.5 +40. How much inner clearance do you think I'll have?

I measured the inside clearance I have now with stock 18x8.5 +40 and its only about 5/8". But going from 8.5 to 9.5 at same offset would cause 1/2" less clearance on both sides of the rim. This will leave only 1/8" inner clearance which is absurdly small. Yes going from 18" to 19" diameter gives you a little more but how much more over that tiny 1/8"?

You're talking about the clearance between the wheel and the knuckle? I have 4mm with 18" wheels with +39mm offset. I would expect you would have about the same with a 19" wheel with +40mm offset since the suspension bit is still curving inward at that point. The stock 18" wheels have a way smaller internal diameter than TSW Bathurst wheels that I replaced them with. I did buy a single wheel first to make sure it would fit though! I think it's fine for the clearance there to be tight since there should be very little flex in the hub and wheel.

 

[Perry]

You're talking about the clearance between the wheel and the knuckle? I have 4mm with 18" wheels with +39mm offset. I would expect you would have about the same with a 19" wheel with +40mm offset since the suspension bit is still curving inward at that point. The stock 18" wheels have a way smaller internal diameter than TSW Bathurst wheels that I replaced them with. I did buy a single wheel first to make sure it would fit though! I think it's fine for the clearance there to be tight since there should be very little flex in the hub and wheel.

No the knuckle is above the tire. I am not worried about that since the diameter will stay the same. I am more worried about the angled arm on the inside that could thouch the inside of the rim's edge. 4mm seems really small. Do you think there will be enough space for snow chains?

 

[Daniel in SD]

No the knuckle is above the tire. I am not worried about that since the diameter will stay the same. I am more worried about the angled arm on the inside that could thouch the inside of the rim's edge. 4mm seems really small. Do you think there will be enough space for snow chains?

I'm calling the whole piece the knuckle since I don't know what to call it. There is definitely NOT enough room for snow chains! If you want the option of running snow chains you should stick with stock size/offset and get low profile chains. I'm keeping my stock wheels and tires for if I ever go up to the mountains in the winter. I'm running Pilot Sport 4S tires on my 18x9.5" rims and they would be dangerous even if you were able to put snow chains on.
4mm is tight for sure but I think it should be fine. Others are running similar setups too.

 

[ChrisH]

Yep and also notice that the pre-order site doesn't even include the 9.5" ones, so yea we could email Evasive and hope/pray - but i'm frankly not going to hold my breath. Even with the other sizes, they are estimating delivery in the next 3 months which is a bit long for my liking.

I am personally a fan of the FC04's and they will soon be offering them with the necessary machining for P3D fitment (i.e the lip counterbored on the inside of the wheel)

https://www.fastwheels.ca/productinfo.aspx?wn=fc04&fn=metallic+black

Do you know where to get fast wheels in the US? Just 1010tires.com or what?

These look amazing but I can’t seem to find them anywhere or even confirm if they fit the Model 3 or not.

https://www.fastwheels.ca/productinfo.aspx?wn=ultimate&fn=vapour+chrome+with+machined+face

 

[coleAK]

Sorry to chime in late. For a track tire Hoosiers are hard to beat. I ran them for years on my track non street leagal supercharged s2000. Also ran Michelin cup slicks when we had our 996 GT3. Two totally different cars at differant times but looking back I think he Hoosier was a better tire.

 

[SammichLover]

i would honestly consider installing a 3rd party DC charger at my local track

What is the cost for a 40kW charger like that?

P.S. A 11.5kW HPWC charger hook-up will only run you maybe $1000 installed if you don't have a long run to the nearest panel with room for a 60A breaker. That's what I'm trying to get the local track to install at the moment. That'd easily give me 92% at the start of first session, charge and then finish a second 20 minute session around 60%. Skip a session for lunch and I'm back to 90% and ready for 2 afternoon sessions.

 

[kbecks13]

What is the cost for a 40kW charger like that?

Tough to find exact quotes online for the higher power chargers, but here's a 25 kW unit for $12.5K. 25 kW would probably be enough to replenish 1 track session worth of usage in about the time between sessions (an hour or so).

If you could make $.50/kwH sold (after factoring in price of electricity) and assume it gets used for 6 hours per race day with 50x race days per year (a little high, sure) then you'd make about $3500 per year. So it could pay itself off in about 3-4 years. If you get half the business (25 race days), then maybe 8 years or so.

Delta Dual Wallbox Level 3 EV DC Quick Charging Station

 

[SammichLover]

Tough to find exact quotes online for the higher power chargers, but here's a 25 kW unit for $12.5K. 25 kW would probably be enough to replenish 1 track session worth of usage in about the time between sessions (an hour or so).

If you could make $.50/kwH sold (after factoring in price of electricity) and assume it gets used for 6 hours per race day with 50x race days per year (a little high, sure) then you'd make about $3500 per year. So it could pay itself off in about 3-4 years. If you get half the business (25 race days), then maybe 8 years or so.

Delta Dual Wallbox Level 3 EV DC Quick Charging Station

That got me the keywords I needed. Poking around I found this on Alibaba. "20kW" for $4500, figure probably another $1000 and up to install because you'll almost certainly need a sub-panel of some sort <edit> and a real electrician. You also need a higher voltage service at the site. Unfortunately I put the kW in quotes because specs have it limited to 40A of DC, and with the Model 3 pack that means about 16kW top end. The comparison to 11.5kW is a bit better than just the simple math, because this is DC so you don't have the onboard AC->DC power losses from that, but still it's only about 40% more than a fully supplied HPWC.

And of course waiting until Tesla gets CHAdeMO or CCS support added to the Model 3.

<edit> Oh right, this was a tire thread. Doh.

 

[coleAK]

Even though the thread is tires/wheels. I think charging is a valid track day topic. I’ve already planned that I’m going to have to take my truck and big generator when my wife tracks this summer or if we run the ice circuit.

 

[Zippy_EV]

Digging up an old thread:
I have run the stock Michelin Pilot Sport 4S 235/35R20 tires as well as Bridgestone RE71-R 245/35R20 tires at the track. The RE71-R tires are noticeably better on track. The 4S are noticeably quieter on the street. I don't plan to track the 4S again. I really love both the RE71-R on the track and the 4S on the street! Great tires!

I've also been looking closely at how wide of a tire/wheel combination will fit on a P3D+. It really looks to me like a 275/35R19 RE71-R on a 19 x 10" +35mm offset wheel will fit (and I think MPP runs this) That said the fit looks so close that I am relatively certain I'm going with a 19 x 9.5" +35mm wheel and 265/35R19 RE71-R for the initial set to be conservative.

 

[kbecks13]

I agree that PS4S is great on street and that RE71 is great on track (but loud on street) and i've decided to split the difference by running the S007A from Bridgestone. It's a step below the RE71 and should be a step above PS4S.

Definitely quieter than RE71, but not quite as much grip on track.

 

[MoreAgain]

S007A Definitely quieter than RE71, but not quite as much grip on track.

Have you had a chance to track the S007A yet? Wondering how much difference you sense compared to the RE71.

 

[jyalpert]

Just some food for thought. I was at a track day on Saturday at Thunderhill. Most Open Group (Advanced) cars seems to be running either Hoosiers or r-specs, with a few other cars running other stuff. Some tire sizes I noticed:

- Caged Mustang on 315 section Rival S
- Several caged M3s on 275 section NT01. Besides a Praga R1 and a Formula Mazda (both running Hoosiers), these were the fastest cars on the track. Driven at 10/10ths all the time.
- (my NC Miata) on 235 section NT01. I'm on my ~15th track day on these tires and they have not lost any grip. Still seeing sustained 1.3G or so on cornering, with predictable breakaway.
- Lotus Exige with Toyo R888R
- Camaro 1LE with NT01, not sure what width but very wide
- Heavily modified S2K on 255 section Federal RSRR
- 90s Civic hatch with an Ebay turbo running god knows what tires, that broke down and caught the infield grass on fire

So it seems if you could get into the 275-315 section width range on the Model 3, that would be a good given the weight.

It'd been 1.5 years since I did a track day, and I'd forgotten how much fun it is to be out there!

 

[SammichLover]

So it seems if you could get into the 275-315 section width range on the Model 3, that would be a good given the weight.

I've not seen anyone be able to get a fit on the front above 275, I get the sense it would at the least require the use of an angle-grinder.

Going staggered on the Model 3 is bad mojo, nigh guaranteed to lead to some amount of understeer.

 

[jyalpert]

I've not seen anyone be able to get a fit on the front above 275, I get the sense it would at the least require the use of an angle-grinder.

Going staggered on the Model 3 is bad mojo, nigh guaranteed to lead to some amount of understeer.

Aha. What's the issue? Suspension component clearance? Could do spacers, although I'm generally a little wary of that for wheel bearing wear reasons.

I wonder what kind of lateral grip you can get on this car with a good set of 265s. The CM feels so close to the roll center, it's possible weight transfer is somewhat limited vs. other cars (assuming you can get enough negative camber to use the entire tread), especially if you are able to drop the ride height on coilovers.

Yeah I imagine a stagger on a car that is supposed to be square would require you to do some weird stuff to get it neutral again, which would probably just end up cancelling out any gain you might have had (since essentially you'd be removing grip from the rear).

 

[SammichLover]

Aha. What's the issue? Suspension component clearance? Could do spacers, although I'm generally a little wary of that for wheel bearing wear reasons.

I wonder what kind of lateral grip you can get on this car with a good set of 265s. The CM feels so close to the roll center, it's possible weight transfer is somewhat limited vs. other cars (assuming you can get enough negative camber to use the entire tread), especially if you are able to drop the ride height on coilovers.

Yeah I imagine a stagger on a car that is supposed to be square would require you to do some weird stuff to get it neutral again, which would probably just end up cancelling out any gain you might have had (since essentially you'd be removing grip from the rear).

I believe MPP reported were occasionally feeling the slightest bit of fender rub with the RE71R in 275, but it still works. Once you get there the geometry is pretty hard to fight, spacers are only going to make it worse.

 

[jyalpert]

I believe MPP reported were occasionally feeling the slightest bit of fender rub with the RE71R in 275, but it still works. Once you get there the geometry is pretty hard to fight, spacers are only going to make it worse.

Oh that's not bad. Quick fender roll and you're good to go.

 

[SammichLover]

Oh that's not bad. Quick fender roll and you're good to go.

Yeah, you have to basically start modifying the body panels. I don't know how much room there is after that.

 

[kbecks13]

Have you had a chance to track the S007A yet? Wondering how much difference you sense compared to the RE71.

Yup! They are pretty good but definitely a little slower, maybe 1-2 seconds or so. Definitely not a peak performance tire, but that's not what i'm going for. I wanted something i could run fulltime as my daily set-up and also handle the track. RE71 is a great tire for the track, but its a bit loud for daily use and slings a ton of gravel which can damage your paint over time.

Will eventually get another set of rims and probably use NT01's as a track tire (@mcbarnet007 has said good things about them)