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This is right in line with bitcoin becoming corporate treasury asset.

I expect we will see quite a Tesla shareholder initiative to exit Bitcoin based primarily on environmental impact at first and expanding from there. It should be an easy shareholder vote and an appealing environmental issue getting a lot of press.

Tesla could lead on this and exit or risk losing environmental standing.
 
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WA state has hydro resources. There has been a movement to remove damns where ecological impact has been significant. See the beautiful Elwha river valley. There is learning going on.

IF, and it yet to be proven, electricity costs come down, then some of these hydro resources may have to compete with the ecological value of their removal.

This behavior of crypto on potential ecological repair is not a particularly great statement. Some may prefer to tout this as efficiency but it smells a bit of greed at the expense of environmental sacrifice.

There is pressure to take out dams on the Columbia, and they can interfere with salmon runs. However, the agricultural economy of the entire NW corner of the country depends on those dams. Something like 50% of all grain exported from the US goes down the Columbia on barges. Something that would become impossible if the dams were removed.

The grain can't go onto trains, the US rail network is at 100% capacity.

The dams on the Elwha were pretty small compared to the Columbia dams. The state was not deprived of much power with the dams shut down and taken out. Removal of some dams on other smaller rivers might be a good idea, but that's something that should be done on the case by case basis.
 
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I've been watching MicroStrategy trade lately. The company now hodles 51,064 BTC, which is 0.011946 BTC/share. Today MSTR closed at $624. But BTC is headed up. It's now at $53,680/BTC, which is worth about $641/share. Essentially, the market is giving the software company zero to negative value after accounting for the bitcoin assets. Arguably the business is on the hook to payoff debt used to by bitcoin, so in theory that could be worth less then the value of the bitcoin if it were owned free and clear. But the clear problem for shorts (which have a 20% short interest on the company's float), is that value changes in BTC directly swing the value of the enterprise. So if bitcoin were to double to just over $100k/BTC, this could ruin the shorts. Not that I care about what happens to shorts. But what if these shorts are attacking MSTR because they really do want to short bitcoin? Well, MSTR paid on average $24k/BTC. So the value of bitcoin could fail by a little more than 40%, and still not do much financial harm to the software business. That is, the underlying business is a cash generator. In deed it is able to buying more BTC using cash from operations. So the underlying business has real value that is underappreciated. Either way there is not much downside for this stock at these prices. Of course, that won't deter the shorts.

In any case, the stock is worth watching to seed how the stock dances around $4.9B in BTC plus a business worth around $3B. I think it is substantially undervalued.
 
The grain can't go onto trains, the US rail network is at 100% capacity.
Thanks for your comments. Dams and ecology and economics are complex subjects. My hope/expectation is that as fossil fuel (coal & oil) use dips such that rail capacity is freed up.

The company (PenPly if I remember correctly) and Economy that originally justified damming the Elwha for hydro is no more but the Salmon endure.
 

So much wow! Dogecoin may be the one, the peoples coin. I love that there are 128.7B DOGE in circulation. The supply grows arithmetically, unbound. Bounty is fix 10,000 DOGE per block. Uses lower energy mining as Litecoin. DOGE has 1 block per minute, compare with 1 block per 2.5 for Litecoin or 1 per 10 minutes for bitcoin. So fast, low cost transactions.

I have long thought that arithmetic expansion is better than halving the bounty every 4 year to put a long-term cap on supply. We live on planet with close to 7.7B people. So there are about 17 DOGE per capita. That is a big enough ratio that it can be in a meaningful denomination for the average. Bitcoin capped out at 2.1M BTC is 0.00027 BTC per capita. Tiny decimal of a unit are really hard for people to relate to in everyday life. Indeed global GDP(PPP) per capita per day is about $48. So 1 BTC at $57k is about 1200 days of income for the average human. Meanwhile, DOGE is at $0.055/DOGE. Even the global poor trying to live on $2 per day can relate to holding 500 DOGE in their hands.

Is the money supply expanding too fast? No, DOGE currently has a 24.5 stock to flow ratio. The inverse means the supply is growing 4% per year. Real global GDP growth is about 3%/y, but in emerging economies it is much higher. Emerging economies need a stable crypto with low cost to transact. So DOGE would would deflationary in most economies that need it. Moreover, in about 8 years, the stock to flow will be about 32.5, and the supply will grow about 3%, right in line with real growth in the global economy. So over the long run, dogecoin is definitely deflationary, but not sharply so that it encourages massive hoarding.

By comparison, BTC is a 57 stock to flow, just a little below 66 for gold. Moreover, the stock to flow will keep doubling every 4 years. This encourages hoarders to keep hoarding. Also bitcoin exchange rates go wild every 4 years as the supply growth contraction is shocked at each halving event. This price instability is great for speculators, but it makes bitcoin less than ideal for quoting prices products and services. Dogecoin had its last halving event in 2014 and the bounty will remain stable at 10k DOGE per block for the foreseeable future. While DOGE did get a substantial bump recently and reacted to Elon's hype, at least you can rule out halving event causing price disruptions. So I would expect that DOGE will continue to provide price stability with occasional deflationary surprises particularly as the popularity of the DOGE expands.

So piecing these details together, I think dogecoin could prove to be well suited for a growing global economy. Bitcoin is optimal for hoarding and large institutional transactions (> $1M), but dogecoin is fun and approachable for ordinary people, especially those without a bank account, for daily consumer transactions.

In conclusion, one word: Dogecoin. Such cheap. Very buy.
 
I'm getting interested in NFTs mainly because my daughter is interested in Art and reasonably talented.
Selling a bit of Art online, might be a better option that flipping burgers, at least until she can get a job in the really, really, good ice cream shop. :)
Currently a lot of NFTs are Ethereum based, and the transaction costs to list your Artwork for sale are high.
I'm looking out of the right option, in terms of transaction costs, and quality of site.
I have a year or 2 so no rush.... it is an interesting area to research...
All Crypto is interesting, and has some potential to change the world.
 
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I'm getting interested in NFTs mainly because my daughter is interested in Art and reasonably talented.
Selling a bit of Art online, might be a better option that flipping burgers, at least until she can get a job in the really, really, good ice cream shop. :)
Currently a lot of NFTs are Ethereum based, and the transaction costs to list your Artwork for sale are high.
I'm looking out of the right option, in terms of transaction costs, and quality of site.
I have a year or 2 so no rush.... it is an interesting area to research...
All Crypto is interesting, and has some potential to change the world.
For those interested in NFTs and who like sports/basketball, check out NBA Top Shot (by a company called Dapper Labs in partnership with the NBA). It’s like collecting sports cards but they are short video clips of NBA players instead and each “moment” is minted a limited number of times with the authenticity of the whole thing backed by blockchain. NBA players and owners are getting into it as well.

I have been buying packs and moments as it is fun to do (along with my son) and I think they could increase in value over time as it becomes more popular.
 
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Thanks for your comments. Dams and ecology and economics are complex subjects. My hope/expectation is that as fossil fuel (coal & oil) use dips such that rail capacity is freed up.

The company (PenPly if I remember correctly) and Economy that originally justified damming the Elwha for hydro is no more but the Salmon endure.

Some fossil fuels are moved by rail, mostly coal which is in decline anyway, so fossil fuels going away isn't gong to free up all that much rail capacity.

40 years ago the US railroads were on the ropes. Most were closing down every section of rail they could. Then the Japanese discovered it was cheaper to ship cars bound for Europe in containers to the west coast of the US, ship them by rail across the US, and put them back on a ship on the east coast.

There aren't as many cars going from Japan to Europe these days, but the US buys so much more from Asian countries that almost all the west coast ports are slammed importing goods from Asia for use in the US. Most of those goods go on trains from the ports to their final destinations. Los Angeles is the busiest container port in the US, Long Beach, CA is second and Seattle/Tacoma is 4th. (NY/NJ is 3rd)

If we quit buying from Asia we could start to free up some rail capacity, but industry likes to concentrate so much that we'd probably have a mega factory in one corner of the country cranking out all the widgets used coast to coast and that would move by rail.
 
This has already been debunked. Move along.

It has not.

Someone, less than honestly, compared the energy cost of the -entire banking industry- which does massively more than BTC transactions, to the energy cost of BTC.

If BTC was handling the volume, type, (and especially speed) of transactions of the banking industry, plus providing a comparable range of service, its own energy costs would be insanely higher.
 
It might be interesting to see how Tesla stock stands since that announcement.

Feb 8th was the announcement by EM of BTC purchase. TSLA closed at 863 and BTC at about $44,000 according to my docs.


Friday Tesla closed at 693 down 170 pts. DJI and S&P at near all time hights. BTC above $57k up $13k.

Looking at the Friday closes for TSLA since the BTC announcement.

2/12 $816
2/19 $781
2/26 $675
3/05 $597
3/12 $693

Hummm..... BTC investment seems to be beginning of something. Hooray for BTC, too bad for TSLA.
 
Feb 8th was the announcement by EM of BTC purchase. TSLA closed at 863 and BTC at about $44,000 according to my docs.


Friday Tesla closed at 693 down 170 pts. DJI and S&P at near all time hights. BTC above $57k up $13k.

Looking at the Friday closes for TSLA since the BTC announcement.

2/12 $816
2/19 $781
2/26 $675
3/05 $597
3/12 $693

Hummm..... BTC investment seems to be beginning of something. Hooray for BTC, too bad for TSLA.

Ha ha, nice story you've weaved, but I'm not convinced. The Tesla 'bitcoin announcment' did not come from Elon, it was part of the Tesla 10-K filed with the SEC on Feb 8, 2021. Here is the relevant section: (pg 105)

Investments

In January 2021, we updated our investment policy to provide us with more flexibility to further diversify and maximize returns on our cash that is not required to maintain adequate operating liquidity. As part of the policy, we may invest a portion of such cash in certain specified alternative reserve assets. Thereafter, we invested an aggregate $1.50 billion in bitcoin under this policy.

So the $1.5B bitcoin purchase most likely occurred in January. Other sources have estimated that Tesla paid an average of about $33K USD / bitcoin. The drop in the U.S. dollar since Thursday confirms Tesla's wisdom of this use of cash as an inflation hedge.

Finally (if we're going to speculate), I think its far more likely that it was Zach who was the driving force behind the bitcoin purchase, as finance is squarely in his wheelhouse. For Elon's part, he's simply said he was 'late to the party'. Obvious question is 'who convinced him?' How about someone who spends his whole day thinking about finance?

Cheers!
 
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It’s just too funny seeing how many people gave this a dislike because they have this preconceived notion about Bitcoin and they refuse to change their minds no matter how many times they’re proven wrong.



From the thread you just posted-


Bitcoin Market Cap = $700B
Global currencies = $80,000B

Bitcoin energy = 184M GJ
Banking and gold energy = 2834M GJ

So Bitcoin is 0.875% of all currencies yet uses 6.5% the energy of all gold mining and the global banking system?


That's not to mention how slow BTC transactions are in comparison, how little of it is used for actual currency rather than just a value store, and how many fewer services BTC provides than all global currency banking.



This is the opposite of "debunking" that BTC is incredibly wasteful energy-wise.

Even among cryptos it's terribly wasteful of energy, let alone compared to "traditional" banking