Bitcoin, Cryptocurrency and Blockchain Discussion Thread

[jhm]

I'm curious what you mean by this -- are you talking about development of a machine learning-driven shortcut in the mining algorithms?

No, not mining. More like AI as financial agents, micro-lending for example. When contracts a completely digital (from negotiating, consummating, transacting to execution and enforcement all on a block chains using digital tokens), AI can run the show. OTC trading, for example, all becomes AI driven, no human broker/dealers. Block chain protocol adjudicates contracts, almost no needs for lawyers and courts. So in effect, AI becomes your lawyer, broker, agent, whatever.

 

[Johan]

No, not mining. More like AI as financial agents, micro-lending for example. When contracts a completely digital (from negotiating, consummating, transacting to execution and enforcement all on a block chains using digital tokens), AI can run the show. OTC trading, for example, all becomes AI driven, no human broker/dealers. Block chain protocol adjudicates contracts, almost no needs for lawyers and courts. So in effect, AI becomes your lawyer, broker, agent, whatever.

Thanks for clarifying and I agree with this take on it.

 

[durkie]

No, not mining. More like AI as financial agents, micro-lending for example. When contracts a completely digital (from negotiating, consummating, transacting to execution and enforcement all on a block chains using digital tokens), AI can run the show. OTC trading, for example, all becomes AI driven, no human broker/dealers. Block chain protocol adjudicates contracts, almost no needs for lawyers and courts. So in effect, AI becomes your lawyer, broker, agent, whatever.

I share a less optimistic view about digital contracts from the early hack in Ethereum DAO (The $55M Hack That Almost Brought Ethereum Down - CoinDesk). As I recall, this was a really amazing case where a bug in the code allowed someone to siphon off $55M from basically an Ethereum-backed crowdfunding project. They were left with the decision of letting the faulty contract remain in place and losing $55M (but standing by their "code-as-contract" principle), or forking the blockchain and getting everyone their money back (but again re-inserting humans in to contract enforcement). It's really hard to write bug free code.

But aside from that, what's stopping those other things from happening right now with the existing financial system? I would that most OTC transactions for instance are already electronic.

 

[jhm]

This video is helpful for understanding bitcoin. Presenter comes at it from mostly a computer science view point.

 

[jhm]

This is the best discussion with Saylor that I've come across. Quite worth the 2.5 hour listen.

 

[wdolson]

Do I have to go through all 430 posts to read up on a responsible discussion of cryptocurrencies' combination of (1) the carbon footprint of their mining AND (2) the crowding out effect such has of other electric consumers desiring clean electrons? All I've seen are anecdata®™.

Coming in very late here and someone may have mentioned it, but there is a boom going on in Washington State in towns that used to have aluminum smelters. Those towns had the smelters because of dirt cheap hydroelectric power. Cryptocurrency miners have set up large server farms there to mine the currency with cheap electricity.

 

[EVWatcher]

Coming in very late here and someone may have mentioned it, but there is a boom going on in Washington State in towns that used to have aluminum smelters. Those towns had the smelters because of dirt cheap hydroelectric power. Cryptocurrency miners have set up large server farms there to mine the currency with cheap electricity.

Just because the electricity is cheap and clean doesn't mean its unlimited and we can do whatever we want with it. This notion that its ok to mine crypto with renewables because they are renewables so it doesn't matter is flawed

 

[JRP3]

Just because the electricity is cheap and clean doesn't mean its unlimited and we can do whatever we want with it. This notion that its ok to mine crypto with renewables because they are renewables so it doesn't matter is flawed

Unless there is excess capacity which would otherwise be curtailed.

 

[TheTalkingMule]

Unless there is excess capacity which would otherwise be curtailed.

Thereby distorting the market for stationary storage!

 

[JRP3]

Currently demand for stationary storage outstrips supply so I don't see that as an issue at this time.

 

[EVWatcher]

Unless there is excess capacity which would otherwise be curtailed.

This is not always the case:
https://twitter.com/enn_nafnlaus/status/1362930375463473165?s=20

 

[jhm]

If you're interesting in possibility to use bitcoin in lending, this is a good discussion. Banking functions are becoming replicated within the crypto ecosystem. There looks to be a lot of opportunity to make these credit markets more efficient. Currently you can deposit bitcoin and earn 6% (over and above whatever gains bitcoin realizes just from holding it).

 

[Beltsbear]

Seems that you are doing this for yourself really. Have at it.

Your argument is a LONG way from convincing. Bitcoin has a basket of glaring problems. It is hard to know which is the worst.

Avoiding glaring problems by playing “what aboutism” works poorly these days. You need to respond with a compelling resolution to the glaring “Satoshi” problem. It is the easy one.

Can’t these Satoshi Bitcoins just be voided? Just call the Adjudicator and wipe them off the ledger?

Or how about create 2 or more levels of Bitcoins with these Satoshi Bitcoins as level 0. See it is easy to make it up as you go.

Or how about a reverse Valarian where every block of calculation shifts value toward the Bitcoins with more transactions essentially rewarding fluidity and taxing hoarding.

I have been in Bitcoin for a long time. Nobody who is serious is worried about the Satoshi Bitcoins. These coins have for the most part not moved. The vast majority of them are lost forever and will never move. Occasionally a block moves, but they are not known to be connected to the larger stashes.

While certain people claim to be "Satoshi", I think the odds are they are no longer alive.

 

[lascavarian]

Coming in very late here and someone may have mentioned it, but there is a boom going on in Washington State in towns that used to have aluminum smelters. Those towns had the smelters because of dirt cheap hydroelectric power. Cryptocurrency miners have set up large server farms there to mine the currency with cheap electricity.

WA state has hydro resources. There has been a movement to remove damns where ecological impact has been significant. See the beautiful Elwha river valley. There is learning going on.

IF, and it yet to be proven, electricity costs come down, then some of these hydro resources may have to compete with the ecological value of their removal.

This behavior of crypto on potential ecological repair is not a particularly great statement. Some may prefer to tout this as efficiency but it smells a bit of greed at the expense of environmental sacrifice.

 

[lascavarian]

While certain people claim to be "Satoshi", I think the odds are they are no longer alive.

Odds being the correct term for the pure gambling going on vs actually knowing a fact. The Satoshi entity is a huge problem IMO.

How much of Bitcoin is hidden? The whole thing comes with a stench of fraud and corruption to some. Bitcoin that is not in circulation every 12 months should be deprecated so that at the very least the float can be a little clear IMO.

 

[Rarity]

How much of Bitcoin is hidden? The whole thing comes with a stench of fraud and corruption to some. Bitcoin that is not in circulation every 12 months should be deprecated so that at the very least the float can be a little clear IMO.

This prescription would have disastrous tax implications in many jurisdictions and would lead to unnecessary energy use.

 

[EVWatcher]

This prescription would have disastrous tax implications in many jurisdictions and would lead to unnecessary energy use.

I feel like this statement could be used to describe bitcoin's existence independent of the discussion its attached to

 

[lascavarian]

I feel like this statement could be used to describe bitcoin's existence independent of the discussion its attached to

A good point. But there needs to be a way to validate the quantity of something if the principal design feature/value is limiting the quantity of the thing. Seems a bit circular to me too.

 

[jhm]

Bitcoin could become the “currency of choice for international trade”, says Citi

Citi looks at bitcoin as potential trade currency. Note this particular advantage:

Citi’s report explains that bitcoin, in the role of a global trade currency, could be used by importers and exporters to pay for goods and services directly – simplifying the process of international trade. A decentralized cryptocurrency may be preferred to a Central Bank Digital Currency, it argues, because “no government or outside entity can take steps that might affect the supply of the trade currency, helping to decouple trade from political considerations.”

This is right in line with bitcoin becoming corporate treasury asset. There are advantages to having a trade currency that is not beholden to any national government, decoupled from politics.

 

[Xepa777]

A lot of bitcoin selling pressure has been due to the largest mining pool in China shutting down. Research here - https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/lximtr/bitcoin_selling_pressure/