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Blue Star Wish List

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by Rifleman, Dec 30, 2011.

  1. Rifleman

    Rifleman Now owns 2 Model S's!!!

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    While we all cannot wait for the Model S to come out, I know that most of us also are anticipating the BlueStar. The fun exersize for this thread is to come up with a "Wish List" of what features you would love to see in the blue star. Maybe tesla will read this, and get some ideas :)

    For me, the perfect BlueStar would be :

    Size : Similar to a Ford Fusion or Hyundai Sonata.

    Styling : I love the styling of the Model S, and would love to see some of the styling cues carry over. I also love the "hatchback that does not look like a hatchback" design of the S, and would love to see that layout carry over.

    Range : I really think that Tesla hit the ideal range on the head with the roadster. 240 miles seems to be the sweet spot, where most people would not even need to think about range, and simply drive as much as they want to throughout the day. The 160 mile range really does work for most people today, but assuming a 30% loss at highway speeds, and a 30% loss of range near the end of the life of the battery, the 160 might not work for everyone for the entire life of the car. I would like to see the base Blue Star have a 240 mile range. A long range 400 mile option would be the other variant, at a significant price premium. The 400 mile ferry range also opens up a lot of options for people who want to drive their car to a service center, rather than pay for the tesla rangers to come out.

    Interior : I would love to see the all touch screen interface carry over. With the smaller car, I would scale down the screen, for both style and cost reasons. A 12-14 inch touchscreen would be perfect for the Blue Star. I think the microfiber / leather options on the S are good, and would like to see those carry over with similar pricing.

    Wheels : I would love to see 17 inch alloy wheels standard, with 19's being an option (hopefully with something as eye catching as the turbine wheels on the S)

    Performance : 0-60 in 6 seconds would be perfect. A sport model with 0-60 in under 5 would also be a great option (at a significant price premium) A top speed of 120 should work across the board.

    Price : This is the big one. I would target $35,000 as the base price for the 240 mile model ($27,500 after the tax credit) The 400 mile model would have a target price of $55 before tax credits, and the signature, fully loaded, would be priced at $70,000. I would try to price the sport model at $65000, and the Signature Sport at $75,000. I also suspect that the blue start coming to market will force a downshift in the price of the Model S by $5-10K for each model.

    Battery Guarantee : This is actually the big one. The blue star is at a price point that appeals to people who do not own 2 cars, and cannot afford to buy a second car latter on if the range degrades to much. As a result, All models of the blue star need to have the 8 year unlimited mile guarantee. The average person buying a blue star is probably not an EVangelist, and needs to know that the car will meet their needs of tomorrow as well as it meets their needs of today.

    Options : Options should include a second on board charger, moon roof, premium sound, several different tech packaged (to not force people to pay the full $3500 if they only want one feature) several options for wheels, super charger capabilities (an option on all models, included standard in nothing but the signature), and leather seats. Heated seats should be an option on all models, not just leather.

    Charger : The new charger for the model S is great, and I would love to see it carry over to the bluestar. I would also like to see an inexpensive 110v charger that could be used when you need to park in an area that you are concerned about cord theft, but would like to get a few extra miles throughout the day (for example, charging for a full day at work, a 110 would provide me with all the miles I used to get work, letting me leave the office with a full charge. The only problem is, I would never trust a $1000 charger that I need to fully charge my vehicle from 240v at home to be sitting in the parking lot for anyone to grab all day long) I would not hesitate to use a $150 charger that if I loose it, my car does not become a paperweight until it is replaced.



    This is my wish list for BlueStar. What is yours?
     
  2. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    I think you hit mileage and pricing on the head. I'd even like to see Tesla hit 29k (sans tax rebate) with a REALLY basic model if possible.
     
  3. Mycroft

    Mycroft Life happens

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    No, people would complain that it doesn't have leather, NAV, or silver paint standard. :tongue:
     
  4. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

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    Nice list. The performance marks are probably a little faster than needed; after all, the 40kWh Model S only gets 6.5 sec. Aim for <7 seconds base, <5.5 seconds sports.

    The question I'd pose is: should Bluestar be a "Camry killer" or a direct competitor to the BMW 3 / Audi A4 ? That fundamental question leads to different design parameters.
     
  5. Mycroft

    Mycroft Life happens

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    Because of the cost of the battery, I think they'll have to aim squarely at the A4 & 3 series. To hit below $30k, they'll need to limit range to 100. But they should be able to give 200-240 as an option. With the higher range, leather/NAV/etc. they should be pushing $45k.
     
  6. Rifleman

    Rifleman Now owns 2 Model S's!!!

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    I think that Blue Star needs to be both. It needs a price point that is within reach of the average Camry driver, so that it at least is a consideration (the 3 series is not a consideration to the average camry buyer) Similarly, it need to a consideration of the 3 series buyer as well. The goal is not to kill off any one competitor, but to take away some market share from each one. If everyone is loosing market share to EV's, everyone will start to make serious efforts at building their own (and this is what I believe that Elon's long term goal for Tesla really is, is wants to change the world first, and if he just happens to makes lots of money doing it, even better.)
     
  7. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    If they can hit a $35,000-$70,000 range (base model to maxed out), I think that will bring in a lot of potential buyers. A realistic (driving at highway speeds of 65mph) range of 100-120 miles would be a great target too for the base model. It's when they advertise 100 mile range (for the Leaf as an example) and people figure out that's really closer to 70 miles or so that they start to lose many customers.
     
  8. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    I don't think there's any point to even offering a 100 mile version. They need to knock it out of the park, to get any traction against established automakers who are all offering 100 miles. They have to somehow bring out an economical 200 mile car. Competing against a 3 series rather han a Camry may be a more effective strategy.
     
  9. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    Not only that, but as discussed in other threads, if Tesla wants to continue selling luxury cars, they have to maintain a sense of luxury (to an extent) throughout their lineup. Remember the Phaeton? Essentially the Audi A8, but no one wanted to buy something so expensive with a VW badge on it.
     
  10. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    I agree with you and I hope they can hit that target. The point I was trying to make is that advertising a single number for a range is a mistake I think although they may have to. The Roadster doesn't even get 200 miles in realistic highway driving on a standard charge though. You do make a great point that everyone else is shooting for the '100 mile' market. If Tesla could design a 160 or 200 mile base model and that mileage held up under highway speeds, that'd be great. I realize everyone doesn't drive only highway 100% of the time though and the actual range would go up with city driving and at lower speeds.
     
  11. Kevin Harney

    Kevin Harney Active Member

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    I strongly believe and I think Tesla has even said that the next car they make after X will be competing with a BMW 3 series. I think this is a good size car and capable of being appointed well with a WIDE price range from $34K to $85K. This squarely overlaps the Model S prices nicely as well. I want to see all of the modern safety features available lane lane departure warning, drousy driver warning, PDC and back up cam, blind spot warning and the like and I want to see all the niceities like ACC and automatic braking for front end collision. Simply put if it does not hit the mark for the rest of the competition on these items I will not buy it. I love Tesla but like they say it needs to be a car you would buy even if it was not electric. I think that this is actually WHY I like Tesla so much and the idea of it. I also think that these prices are pretty realistic as they seem to be aiming at halfing the price with each step closer to mass production. I 3 series size platform would give them the ability to make a Sedan, a Coupe and a Convertible and all available with a sport package. I think that a 3 series is a VERY good target. Do not get me wrong an Audi comparable is also a good target. But I think they should stick with the luxury brand name they have started and not go for Toyota based product as a goal. Even the 1 series is a better car than that. While I do want to see them produce a car for the masses I also want a luxury car so I think they are better off targeting Mercedes, BMW and Audi and still making somethign cheaper than the Model S.
     
  12. Kevin Harney

    Kevin Harney Active Member

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    Also I want some type of option that will allow me to get a 300 mile pack minimum. Anything higher would be welcome but not really necessary for me. I have a road trip that I make several times each summer to our beach house and it is all highway and about 160 miles away so I figure with the losses that a 300 mile pack is about right to make that trip.
     
  13. Kevin Harney

    Kevin Harney Active Member

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    I also think that a it is easily argued that a base car starting at $34K with a $7.5 possible rebate would be a car for the masses and that is a key marketing point.
     
  14. EVNow

    EVNow Active Member

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    Assuming 240 miles at 55 mph - they need nearly 60 kWh (as with S). They would need to get to a $200/kWh before they can even imagine that car under $40k.

    But, I'd say they have to price the car around near luxury brands - so $35k to $40k after tax credits. Otherwise they will dilute the brand image. May be later on they can start another brand to come up with a Leaf competitior.

    Ofcourse in a few years, there may not be a tax credit. Afterall even the Ethonol subsidy was not renewed - with so much political clout (and nation's first caucus being in ethonol country).

    Anyway, my list would be,
    - 200 miles @ $45,000
    - D segment (i.e. Carmy size)
    - All the stuff Leaf SL already has : CHAdeMO/Quick Charge, Heated seats (non-leather), Nav, Telematics, Rearview Camera, XM
     
  15. EVNow

    EVNow Active Member

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    So, it would be a direct competitior to i3.

    The problem with C segment is that - I don't think there will be enough space for a long range battery (I'm assuming we are talking about something being produced in 2014/15).
     
  16. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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  17. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Mazda3 hatchback Concept:
    mazda3-concept-img_3.jpg
    mazda3-concept-img_4.jpg
     
  18. user497

    user497 Member

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    Wasn't the bluestar supposed to be the car for the masses? Honestly I would prefer competing with the Civic and Corolla and not BMW. I would love to see a base around 25k for a stylish car that has 160-200 mile range. I know the Leaf with its 100 miles is $32k but I am hoping with the advances in battery technology in the next few years before the bluestar comes out that a lower price point can be reached. In any case, I personally would focus more on affordability than 0-60 times.
     
  19. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

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    Agreed; Bluestar almost has to be D-segment to accommodate the required battery "skateboard". But within the D-seg you've got the Chevy Impala at the low end, and the BMW 3-series at the high-end. I strongly agree with the view that Tesla should continue to build its reputation as a premium marque, being an "aspirational car" in each segment. Leave the mass-market to the better capitalized partners like Toyota!
     
  20. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

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    I'd rather a sexier look in the Bluestar, like the Aston Martin Zagato:
    [​IMG]
    or a more practical car (my current wheels) the Audi A3:
    [​IMG]
     

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