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BMW i3
- Thread starter gregincal
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- Electric Vehicles
Videos are very interesting; Thanks vfx!
Motor looks to be a bit bigger than Model S and the batteries appear to be large form factor and not 18650, but hard to tell since they don't show the primary steps of encasing the cells. But then the individual cells are then stacked on their side thus increasing the height of the pack two fold. And there are way more then I thought for a ~20kWh pack. Furthermore, the case seems to be Aluminum and I thought it would be in carbon fibre.
Motor looks to be a bit bigger than Model S and the batteries appear to be large form factor and not 18650, but hard to tell since they don't show the primary steps of encasing the cells. But then the individual cells are then stacked on their side thus increasing the height of the pack two fold. And there are way more then I thought for a ~20kWh pack. Furthermore, the case seems to be Aluminum and I thought it would be in carbon fibre.
I have to say that as an owner of both a Roadster, Model S, and "Electronaut" to BMW ActiveE... Vampire loss seems to be a problem with both Teslas (and my Model S was delivered with firmware 5.6) at a greater degree than on the ActiveE.
Seeing that the i3 uses the same batteries and motor as the ActiveE, I would surmise that it would perform similarly.
Looking at my energy consumption at home. The Roadster gets parked longer as that is my wife's car and we use the ActiveE when we carpool, I can see that the car will let itself drain a bit before it starts to recharge itself (and boy can you tell when it's recharging.)
I just got the Model S last Friday and am having it worked on to get the Xpel Ultimate wrap and other aesthetic fixes. At the shop, they charged it up with 110V overnight Sunday to Monday to get the range back up to approx around 197 miles rated range (using the iOS App to check on the telematics) and today (Wednesday, I just checked at 0757 Pacific Time) it has 188 miles rated range. Granted the icons to the car shows that all the doors and the frunk are open (and have been for a few days) so I wonder if there is a large drain leaving it in that condition while they work on it.
I've left the Active E at LAX for about a week back when the parking for EVs was free and did not notice any degradation in rated range or its state of charge.
So, each manufacturer implementation of active thermal management and the chemistry of each battery pack probably creates these results. (It could also be their algorithms for stating rated range, however the ActiveE does provide SOC in percentages, so... As does the Roadster using OVMS).
I made the conscious decision to factor in the extra "cost" of energy losses while the vehicle is parked and still decided to go with them.
MPT care to chime in, you have both the Roadster and Active E (and a few other EVs...)
Woof? I believe you have both the Model S and Active E as well...
Seeing that the i3 uses the same batteries and motor as the ActiveE, I would surmise that it would perform similarly.
Looking at my energy consumption at home. The Roadster gets parked longer as that is my wife's car and we use the ActiveE when we carpool, I can see that the car will let itself drain a bit before it starts to recharge itself (and boy can you tell when it's recharging.)
I just got the Model S last Friday and am having it worked on to get the Xpel Ultimate wrap and other aesthetic fixes. At the shop, they charged it up with 110V overnight Sunday to Monday to get the range back up to approx around 197 miles rated range (using the iOS App to check on the telematics) and today (Wednesday, I just checked at 0757 Pacific Time) it has 188 miles rated range. Granted the icons to the car shows that all the doors and the frunk are open (and have been for a few days) so I wonder if there is a large drain leaving it in that condition while they work on it.
I've left the Active E at LAX for about a week back when the parking for EVs was free and did not notice any degradation in rated range or its state of charge.
So, each manufacturer implementation of active thermal management and the chemistry of each battery pack probably creates these results. (It could also be their algorithms for stating rated range, however the ActiveE does provide SOC in percentages, so... As does the Roadster using OVMS).
I made the conscious decision to factor in the extra "cost" of energy losses while the vehicle is parked and still decided to go with them.
MPT care to chime in, you have both the Roadster and Active E (and a few other EVs...)
Woof? I believe you have both the Model S and Active E as well...
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The entire production and lifetime energy usage of the BMW i3 ( Product life cycle assessment) is very good:
Look Inside BMWs Ultra-Green i3 Factory - Popular Mechanics
Green Car Congress: TÃœV SÃœD Technical Inspectorate confirms BMW i3 can emit 30-50% less total life cycle greenhouse gases than comparable conventional vehicles
Quite remarkable. I hope BMW can carry this over to more of their models.
jcaspar
Member
You can see why in the video. Looks a lot slower that the Model S. The M3 caught it in seconds. I wonder if a Volt could take it?
tommolog
Member
Everything is a lot slower than a Model S! :wink:
However other than Tesla cars the i3 will be the quickest EV available, unless you count the Tesla powered RAV-4 which it pretty much ties. The i3 does 0-60 in 7.0 sec (REx i3 in 7.6) and the Volt does it in 8.7 sec.
I don't have much to add. I've never seen any vampire loss on the ActiveE, even after sitting for a week unplugged. That doesn't mean it isn't there--it may just be the software isn't running the calculations unless the car is moving, so the screen shows the same numbers. Also the 'E software seems to smooth out the readings so they don't jump around much. That could easily mask any vampire losses to the casual observer, as it would just appear has high power usage for the first few miles, which is exactly what it always shows even after preconditioning.
I've never noticed vampire loss on the Model S either...because it's never sat unplugged anywhere for more than a few hours!
So are SpaceX rockets but that doesn't do me any good on the freeway. Same with Rimac except for exactly 1 person on the planet.
BMW delivered its first i3 yesterday
BMW officially enters the electric era as the first i3s are delivered
“Today marks a milestone in the history of the BMW Group, as we hand over our first BMW i premium electric vehicle to customers. In doing so, we are bringing sustainable mobility to the roads."
BMW officially enters the electric era as the first i3s are delivered
“Today marks a milestone in the history of the BMW Group, as we hand over our first BMW i premium electric vehicle to customers. In doing so, we are bringing sustainable mobility to the roads."
I wonder how the media's going to treat BMW the first time one of these crashes and burns?
(why do I always have to be the Debbie downer lol)
You know what'd be funny though from an EV perspective, and I'm sure it'll happen at some point, but what the take will be when one of these gets into an accident and that lawnmower engine and gasoline gets punctured and ignites yet the battery pack is fine...maybe that'll convince the public of why all gasoline powered cars are dangerous! The new Ford Pinto (and subsequently the new Jeep Cherokee) will be all petrol powered cars!
Actually, I've drag raced both a Model S P85 and a Roadster (non-sport). I got faster 1/4 mile times in the Model S - by a large enough difference that the Model S would still beat the Roadster Sport. The Roadster launches like a ton of bricks, but the Model S is much faster at high speeds.
The difference really shows up in the top speed. In 1/2 mile the Model S had massively faster top speed, 203 kph versus 176 kph. The highest speed I've ever hit with the Roadster was 182 kph, whereas hitting 200 kph in the Model S is easy.
I know they won't do it but I can dream anyway...
I'd love to see Tesla team up with Mythbusters to design a "road debris" test for NHTSA (and other organizations) and for Tesla to be the first to submit results on this test (for Model S). Talk about a PR bonanza.
Oh right, how is this on-topic...
They could offer to assist every other EV maker (including BMW) in testing their vehicles (including the i3) with this proposed test.
To do it right, they (Tesla & Mythbusters) would need to purchase at least one of each the top 10 NHTSA highly-rated ICE/Hybrid vehicles and put them through the same test.
Mythbusters could make a whole show about it and defray some of the costs that way. For Tesla, it would be "R&D" as well as "EV promotion" expenditure.
tommolog
Member
I suppose it will eventually happen, but don't assume it will as quickly as it has with the Model S. There are 50,000 volts and 40,000 LEAF on the roads in the US and they have have been driving and being crashed for three years now without a single fire. I fully expect the i3 to behave similarly.
tommolog
Member
I suppose it's possible, but I'd be really surprised if either of them has had a fire and it didn't make it's way to the mainstream media, or at the very least Faux News
surfingslovak
Member
Brian, point taken, but there have been zero reports of fires involving a Nissan LEAF in nearly three years after its market introduction. I'm sure that this can be confirmed with the manufacturer. As for the Volt, aside from the well-publicized fire three weeks after a crash test, nothing has been reported either. Did the forum post you mentioned list any sources?
I was just reading through the thread to see what has been discussed recently, and have to wonder. Why post something like that at all?
Congrats on the Model S, Dennis! I think I remember you getting a Roadster. Jealous! I looked at one before they sold out in late summer 2011. About the spontaneous discharge: I'm certain that these lithium-ion traction batteries lose perhaps 1% of SOC per month through self-discharge. Everything else is caused by some parasitic load, such as the TMS, on-board computers, etc. In terms of battery chemistry, the modern lithium-ion batteries are quite good. There are some downsides, obviously, but in terms of internal resistance, self-discharge, quick-charge capability, weight, and other properties, they are a lot better than the Ni-MH packs used in EVs a decade ago.
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Some random web surfing...
Leaf surviving a fire, but apparently not the battery:
Nissan Leaf Battery Pack Survives Massive Fire!
So much for "zero reports of fires involving a Nissan LEAF".
Leaf surviving a fire, but apparently not the battery:
Nissan Leaf Battery Pack Survives Massive Fire!
So much for "zero reports of fires involving a Nissan LEAF".
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