BMW i8

[ckessel]

But regarding the i8, assuming you didn't care that it was a hybrid and was debating between it and the roadster, which would you honestly prefer? Because to me, they are very closely matched cars.

Roadster. Well, the new Roadster that Tesla will create someday that has some creature comforts.

My biggest problem with the i8 is it only has good performance briefly. I'd be able to zoom on the way to work. On the way home from work, the battery is gone and I'd get beat off the line at a stop light by a high end VW bug.

For a $140,000, I want a car that meets it's specs for more than 50% of my daily commute.

 

[rabar10]

Just looking at the specs on paper, I really don't see how the i8 is able to outperform the Roadster.

I think the torque number listed in your graph is the peak torque of the ICE only. Quoting the Motor Trend article:

Combined, the two ends churn out 357 peak hp. As for torque, that’s always tricky to calculate in hybrids. BMW says peak is 420 lb-ft. Which is wrong, as the gas engine, the same engine in the new Mini Cooper, creates 236 pound-feet at 3700 rpm. The traction motor creates 184 lb-ft at 0 rpm. BMW offered up some sort of Porsche 918 Spyder-like torque multiplier explanation (“in sixth gear it makes all the torque in the known universe”) but I think it’s best to just nod and pretend you understand.

So after noting that the two peak torque numbers come at different speeds, a more reasonable system torque number would seem to be around 350-370 lb-ft for the i8. In any event, that increased torque is why it's hanging with Roadster in the 0-60 race even though it's 500 lbs. heavier.

 

[chickensevil]

Roadster. Well, the new Roadster that Tesla will create someday that has some creature comforts.

I was referring to the current one, and I was more asking strictly from a performance stance (not comfort or any other flashy features), which means your biggest problem actually tells me all that I would ever want to know not to ever really want to buy it. Because you are going to lose power as you drain your battery... That is very depressing.

I think the torque number listed in your graph is the peak torque of the ICE only. Quoting the Motor Trend article:

So after noting that the two peak torque numbers come at different speeds, a more reasonable system torque number would seem to be around 350-370 lb-ft for the i8. In any event, that increased torque is why it's hanging with Roadster in the 0-60 race even though it's 500 lbs. heavier.

Ah I see, I think that clears it up a bit. I was pulling the torque numbers from a search not Motor Trend, so it is likely I was just looking at the one...

 

[mnx]

I think it's an issue on the track, but I imagine on the road the car could recharge the batteries so you'd have 100% of the power available when you want it.

Roadster. Well, the new Roadster that Tesla will create someday that has some creature comforts.

My biggest problem with the i8 is it only has good performance briefly. I'd be able to zoom on the way to work. On the way home from work, the battery is gone and I'd get beat off the line at a stop light by a high end VW bug.

For a $140,000, I want a car that meets it's specs for more than 50% of my daily commute.

 

[smorgasbord]

I went to a BMW autocross event in Alameda a couple weeks ago, and they had an i8 to sit in (not drive, unfortunately). If you're in the LA area in September, you can go to the event (don't even need to register) to see the car in person.

To me, the i8 is more of a larger Roadster than a sporty Karma. It's got a familiar structural sill to slip over while getting in, and to climb over when getting out. I couldn't get out without opening the center console spring-loaded door with my right hand. The top isn't removable, so you're always struggling on access with the i8. The rear seats on the Karma are way bigger, and with 4 doors they're usable if you're not a big person and/or not going a long way - the i8 is for agile kids only no matter what. BMW should offer an option that doesn't include the rear seats so you have more cargo capacity.

The i8 control layout is pretty standard BMW in terms of infotainment, cluster, etc. There are major rear corner visibility issues, so you'll be depending on the side mirrors and instant electric torque to change lanes. Apparently, opening the hood is restricted to BMW mechanics only! (ICE is in the back, electric drive train up front).

For about the cost of a new Roadster (BMW dealer ripoff markup excluded), you get a car that looks more modern, has more room inside, has better nav/infotainment than the Alpine unit, and doesn't need to stop to charge on long drives. On the downside, it's not a convertible, there's an ICE to maintain, and the swing up doors do seem like they need more room to enable access into/out of the vehicle.

From the performance/handling reviews, it seems like a great car. If I could get one without the dealer markup, I'd seriously consider it as a Roadster replacement for multi-day road trips. I think it'd be cool to have Roadster and i8 side by side in the garage.

Here's the blind spot view:

 

[Yggdrasill]

Here in Norway, the driver of a BMW i8 was caught doing 240.6 km/h (150 mph) in a 100 km/h (62.5 mph) zone yesterday. When stopped, the driver (who was test driving the car) blamed the car, saying it was so easy to accelerate up to a high speed.

This is the highest speed ever recorded by the police on the E18, which is pretty much the best highway in Norway. For *months* I've been waiting for a similar headline involving a Model S, and an i8 beats the Model S to the punch. There's something like 6000 Model S in Norway, and they've been on the roads here for close to a year, so it's almost a miracle that no one has made a headline yet. The i8, on the other hand, there's probably fewer than 5 i8 in Norway, and they've probably not been in the country for more than a month. I'm a little uncertain about what to make of it:

- Are Tesla drivers a lot more responsible drivers than BMW drivers?
- Are BMW drivers stupid enough to get caught?
- Is the i8 so flashy that cops immediately notice it?
- Has BMW been stupid not to speed-limit their test drive cars?
- Is it a PR stunt from BMW's side?

Well, the last one is probably not very likely, the driver is looking at prison time, as well as three years without a license.

 

[JRP3]

How about the Model S doesn't go faster than 130 mph? Or since the range loss is so great at full speed no one spends a significant amount of time going that fast?

 

[brianman]

For about the cost of a new Roadster

Where do I buy a new Roadster?

 

[Yggdrasill]

How about the Model S doesn't go faster than 130 mph?

130 mph is still more than enough to make the headlines, especially if you crash into something, fly through the air and land on the second floor of a hospital. (Or something similar.) Yet, month after month, no (domestic) extravagant speed or collision related headlines relating to the Model S can be seen. I am genuinely surprised, considering that the Model S is the first opportunity that the middle class has to buy a significantly powerful vehicle. Due to the lack of taxes on EVs, most people are coming to the Model S from significantly cheaper vehicles with 80-150 hp.

Or since the range loss is so great at full speed no one spends a significant amount of time going that fast?

No one would spend a long time at 150 mph in an i8 either, considering that traffic is flowing at less than half of that speed. We don't have autobahns here. (And even on the autobahn, going at 150 mph for any amount of time is almost impossible.)

 

[RobStark]

I am genuinely surprised, considering that the Model S is the first opportunity that the middle class has to buy a significantly powerful vehicle.

You mean the Norwegian/European middle class?

In USA you can buy a Camaro ZL1 with 580 hp that does 0-60 in 3.9s(Like S P+) for $57.8k including gas guzzler tax. Ford and Chrysler offer similar vehicles.

I know this car in Norway goes for ~$345k with various taxes but no such punitive taxes here.

 

[JRP3]

You can also buy used cars with plenty of power for much less money that can hit 130 mph. The fact is that few people feel the need to do so, no matter what they are driving. Especially if they stretched the budget and spent more money than they ever have before, they might not be inclined to take it as fast as it can go.

 

[ecarfan]

That is a huge blind spot. Does the i8 have a good rear view camera that you can leave on all the time like you can in the Model S? If so, that would really help make the i8 safer. If not, that looks like a scary car to drive in traffic. The Roadster also has significant rear quarter blind spots, but not as severe as what you show in your photo of the i8.

Here's the blind spot view:
View attachment 58014

 

[JST]

Our local dealer has one on static display. I was able to climb in and out but not boot it up.

A few random thoughts--the doors are crazy light and very stiff. It's an odd combination, like a really stiff styrofoam cooler lid. It doesn't feel cheap, but I think I see why they made the doors open like that. It gives you a tangible sense of how different this car's construction is.

Getting in and out...oy. I'm a pretty average sized guy, but while I got in without much problem, getting out was a mess. The saleswoman even laughed with me and said "imagine being a woman in a dress." Do not valet this car. Park it far away, in the shadows, where no one can see you face plant on exit.

Haven't seen many pics of the rear seat space. There really isn't any. This is a parcel shelf with seatbelts. Anyone thinking they are going to take their kids for a ride, think again. Unless you hate your kids.

Bizarrely, the two main cupholders are reachable from the backseats, but only from the front seats if the driver is triple jointed, or an octopus.

Blue everywhere.

It is a striking thing, though.

 

[NigelM]

A while back I looked at a Jaguar with really tight rear seats like that (don't remember which model it was) and I asked the dealer about the silly design; he told me that the rear seats were luggage space and not meant to be used, they were only there to keep the insurance rates down.

 

[Merrill]

I had an XK8 Jaguar Coupe and we called the rear seat a leather lined grocery carrier. You could fit 2 small people or kids back there and that's about it.

 

[dsm363]

Why don't insurance companies update the rules to make these stupid designs impractical? If two adults can't fit back there then they don't get a discount. Make a a Roadster or a car that can actually fit 4 people.

 

[ecarfan]

The rear seats of a Porsche 911, any year, aren't suitable for anyone over 5 ft. But the i8 looks even tighter in the back.

 

[JST]

The rear seats of a Porsche 911, any year, aren't suitable for anyone over 5 ft. But the i8 looks even tighter in the back.

Substantially so.

 

[AustinPowers]

You mean the Norwegian/European middle class?

In USA you can buy a Camaro ZL1 with 580 hp that does 0-60 in 3.9s(Like S P+) for $57.8k including gas guzzler tax. Ford and Chrysler offer similar vehicles.

That's the hp-crazy US of A for you. ;-)
Over here, for 58k Dollar (equivalent to about 45k Euro) you can hardly get a fully loaded top of the line Golf GTI, let alone anything in the 500+ hp range.
Not that with our fuel prices many people would buy such a gas guzzler anyway...

 

[MikeC]

I got the chance to briefly drive an i8 a couple days ago. I'm a Tesla owner/investor/enthusiast, so take this with a grain of salt - but I was underwhelmed.

The car is obviously visually stunning. The interior was nice, too, but the dashboard display looked like it was from the 80s compared to the dash LCD in the Model S. Ingress/egress was pretty awkward and it was snug but comfortable in the driver's seat.

The biggest disappointment was the acceleration. I actually question whether the battery was charged, because the instant torque that I'm used to just wasn't there. I only accelerated up to 55 mph or so on surface streets but I drove it in both Eco and Sport and there was still that split-second ICE lag when I floored it. I had thought that the EV part of the drivetrain would provide instant torque. My 85 feels like it accelerates significantly faster and it's hard for me to see how the i8 acceleration specs are supposed to be on par with a P85. I also found the acceleration noise to be disconcerting and the fact that it is "augmented" is somewhat absurd to me. It just makes it sound like the car is struggling so hard.

Again, I'm not sure that the battery was charged - but the capacity is only 7 kWh, so I imagine it's pretty easily depleted from a full charge. In any case, I'm not too worried about the i8 impacting Model S demand.