What nonsense - they are looking at the person they are talking to .....so not looking directly into the camera means...................they are not professional actors/newspersons!She was probably distracted trying to activate home link and push the wrong pedal and slammed into her garage.
Neither wife or husband looked into the camera... tell tail signs of lying
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"Breaking Bad" - Daily articles now hitting the news wires
- Thread starter GolanB
- Start date
Tam
Well-Known Member
Yes.
The filing states:
"As WALTER HUANG approached the paved gore area dividing the main travel lanes of US - 101 from the SH-85 exit ramp, the autopilot feature of the Tesla turned the vehicle left, out of the designated travel lane, and drove it straight into a concrete highway median."
Sorry but what ELDA stands for please?
My problem with this is if you don't know which pedal you're pushing then this could cause more unintended accelerations.
With creep turned off, I have to use the accelerator to move. If I want to move forward, I push down on the (hopefully correct) accelerator pedal very gently. If I accidentally hit the brake, no problem.
With creep turned on, I could be hovering over the brake ready to stop, or I could be accidentally hovering over the accelerator ready to cause $100k worth of damage.
Creep adds an additional level of uncertainty to an already very unforgiving vehicle (in terms of instant acceleration).
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EfficientWatts
Member
Did you drive a manual car or auto primary before getting the Tesla?
I feel that the general behavior of people in the US is built upon driving automatic cars. When moving normally you use accelerator and brake pedals.
The scenario I'm talking about with regards to creep being better is when you're at low speeds, like when moving into a parking lot space or garage. At this point your foot is already on the brake, and so to start moving instead of having to move your foot all the way to the accelerator pedal, they can just lift up their foot till they see enough movement, then simply press back down. During this time they actually don't have to take their foot off the brake pedal at all, they can just leave it rested on there. Only if they need to overcome a bump or hill or the like do they need to actually move the foot over to the accelerator pedal, at which point the behavior of creep/no creep is the same.
Of course this behavior applies mainly if you drove an automatic, so some have argued as to why creep off better replicates a manual transmission.
And the scenario you talk about does not make any sense. You're going to be "hovering" over a pedal regardless of creep or no creep, and in fact with creep on in general you're going to have your foot on the brake pedal (if you're doing it right). And if you hit the accelerator hard enough to cause $100k of damage in a car with creep, you're going to cause the same amount of damage if you do the same thing in a car without creep, as while you say you can "accidentally" hit the brake, you can also "accidentally" hit the accelerator as well. And you know how fast Teslas accelerate.
small edit: people keep forgetting that (at least in the US) the majority of the population are coming from automatic cars. So any "uncertainty" coming from creep is irrelevant as these people have all gotten used to driving with this "uncertainty", and in fact, I would argue, would come to expect it.
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Tam
Well-Known Member
Whose fault is that when the TV reporter was not given the URL to the Tesla Event Data Recorder (EDR) Resources?
Did Tesla send an e-mail to the driver with the EDR link?
The TV reporter was told by the driver that Tesla did not get back to her so she reported to the news.
And when TV reporter talked to Tesla, Tesla issued a very generic statement about "a" driver, not "the" specific driver:
By the way, notice that car log is continuous and different from EDR which is more limited and not continuous. EDR is only activated when there is an "Event". An "Event" is usually an airbag deployment. No airbag deployment means no event and no EDR recording.
Since it's a very slow speed collision and there were no evidence of airbag deployment, it is doubtful the EDR would capture a non-Event incidence as defined by its own parameters.
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From what I can find online, EDRs will record any collision resulting in a change in volocity to the vehicle of more than 5 miles per hour, while airbags typically will deploy (when hitting a fixed barrier) between 8-14 miles per hour - a delta of between 3-9 miles per hour.
A non-trivial crash, as defined by 49 CFR Part 563 – Event Data Recorders, is any collision resulting in a change in velocity (Delta-V) to the vehicle of more than 5 miles per hour over 150 milliseconds. Older vehicles with EDRs would typically only record data in frontal collisions, but the current regulation for vehicles requires EDRs in newer vehicles to record data in front, side and rear impacts greater than 5 miles per hour Delta-V.
If a vehicle is compliant with Part 563 (vehicles 2013 and newer) and is involved in a crash resulting in a Delta-V above 5 miles per hour, 5 seconds of pre-impact speed, acceleration and braking data will be recorded in the EDR. While this information is often valuable to reconstruct the collision, the absence of data stored in the EDR can be equally as beneficial to the reconstruction.
source: Not all "Black Boxes" are Created Equal, Until Now… | DJS Associates
Frontal air bags are generally designed to deploy in "moderate to severe" frontal or near-frontal crashes, which are defined as crashes that are equivalent to hitting a solid, fixed barrier at 8 to 14 mph or higher. (This would be equivalent to striking a parked car of similar size at about 16 to 28 mph or higher.)
source: Air Bags
If a vehicle is compliant with Part 563 (vehicles 2013 and newer) and is involved in a crash resulting in a Delta-V above 5 miles per hour, 5 seconds of pre-impact speed, acceleration and braking data will be recorded in the EDR. While this information is often valuable to reconstruct the collision, the absence of data stored in the EDR can be equally as beneficial to the reconstruction.
source: Not all "Black Boxes" are Created Equal, Until Now… | DJS Associates
Frontal air bags are generally designed to deploy in "moderate to severe" frontal or near-frontal crashes, which are defined as crashes that are equivalent to hitting a solid, fixed barrier at 8 to 14 mph or higher. (This would be equivalent to striking a parked car of similar size at about 16 to 28 mph or higher.)
source: Air Bags
5_+JqckQttqck
Active Member
Husband looked away from interviewer when giving his response. Watch "Lie to me" and the FBI investigations into lying and come back and discuss.
I disagree. Unintended acceleration claims are not even remotely new to Tesla, so creep likely has nothing to do with it. Personally, I believe creep increases the chance, but I don't have any hard evidence either, I think it just comes down to what people are familiar with.
I think the bigger issue is reaction time. With an automatic transmission, the initial delay may give people enough time to realize their mistake, with the Tesla they're already in a wall.
Tam
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the info. It sounds like EDR might record this incidence even without airbag deployment if her car was traveling fast enough to create a more than 5MPH delta.
I am sure Tesla car works correctly but Tesla should not portrait itself as righteous arrogant by ignoring the driver in distress.
It should de-escalate the situation and reach out to the driver and explain how she could get the EDR on her own while waiting for an official investigation then this incidence would never be heard by the TV reporter.
I wonder if they had the "Obstacle-Aware Acceleration" feature turned off? BTW, there are literally hundreds maybe thousands of these types of accidents every year in the US. People driving through stores, bars, their own garage doors, etc... it's a pretty common thing and I haven't seen a defective car mentioned as the actual cause in a very long time.
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Yes I get all my facts from TV or second hand reports not my actual years as a behavioral scientist and related advanced degrees
Hope your doc doesn't operate the way they do on Grey's Anatomy...................
But the real point is that the DATA could be available and hopefully will be soon - what someone believes they did isn't really the relevant issue here.
I can only report on the response Tesla has given me, and the cases I was peripherally involved in and have had a direct working knowledge of.
In each of these cases, Tesla took the incident very seriously and escalated the issue to the proper team for handling the analysis, and where necessary the fix. I would say that the time to respond by an individual in support was quick (within one hour), to escalate to the second level and engineering (24-48 hours), to provide a complete response (7-30 days), and a fix (60 days). Here we were dealing with a collision, and in another case, a failure of AutoSteering.
For accidents, I believe Tesla prioritizes calls to their call center, and the average length of time to get someone on the phone is even shorter.
This individual claims she got no response from Tesla, which on the surface sounds strange. If on the other hand, she meant that she did not get a complete response, that is entirely feasible. Tesla was upfront with us in terms of how long the response would take. Had we not known this upfront, we may have concluded Tesla was not paying (enough) attention.
Once news media or lawyers get involved, there are often immediate constraints placed on the type of language and how the flow of information moves. When dealing with businesses, it is helpful to utilize someone in sales as your advocate (often a district manager, or even head of North American Sales), but with Teslas move to online ordering, who that interface is has become suddenly opaque. Customers are often left scratching their head as to who to escalate to within Tesla - when compared with how quickly news organizations pick up stories, it is easy to see how this happened.
I have been fortunate to have found helpful people at Tesla along my journey, sometimes appearing at just the right moment. These have been like little angels that I've held on to.
In many cases of customer dissatisfaction, the biggest complaint is often lack of communication or poor response time. I've seen response times swell as more customers have gotten their deliveries, and Tesla has attempted to address this by increasing staff to varying degrees of success.
Purely looking at statistics, here in the U.S., there are over 15,000 vehicle accidents per day, resulting in over 90 deaths. Factored together with the number of registered vehicles on the roads (272M) vs. the number of Teslas, we might be able to conclude that there are somewhere between 10-20 accidents per day involving a Tesla. That estimate seems manageable, but I don't know the true numbers are.
In many cases, the crash investigation study is done by a law-enforcement or insurance investigator with some assistance from Tesla or their training partners where needed. The point is, the weight isn't entirely on the manufacturer to respond in these cases, although Tesla might want to consider some additional "white-glove" or hand-holding to prevent stories like these from going critical.
For Tesla, escalating to a customer success manager who can navigate the inside of Tesla and can further escalate where needed might work well. When I have had major issues with a supplier, I would eventually be handed to someone in customer success, whether or not I came through Sales, Engineering, or in one case, a public relations team.
I have on one occasion went to the media on an issue, and the amount of attention was intense and continued for nearly two years (https://www.nytimes.com/images/2017/06/26/nytfrontpage/INYT_frontpage_global.20170626.pdf). It had the desired effect, but there was certainly a degree of collateral damage.
5_+JqckQttqck
Active Member
Yes I get all my facts from TV or second hand reports not my actual years as a behavioral scientist and related advanced degrees
Hope your doc doesn't operate the way they do on Grey's Anatomy...................
But the real point is that the DATA could be available and hopefully will be soon - what someone believes they did isn't really the relevant issue here.
All I'm saying is their behavior does not pass my gut test. The few times I didn't trust my gut and gave people the benefit of the doubt, they came back to burn me. So, that's my 2 cents on this matter - These people are fishy a f and trying to game Tesla by going to the press with a sob story of "Think of the Children that we keep locked into the garage to play instead of outside".
Msjulie
Active Member
I am no weak-armed gal and I truly HATE fighting with the steering wheel when AP goes wrong...
Why do you always lightly touch the accelerator pedal in Drive particularly when there were people in front of you?
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