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"Breaking Bad" - Daily articles now hitting the news wires

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by GolanB, Jun 11, 2019.

  1. amit1947

    amit1947 Member

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    I know the car will be physically stopped by an object it crashes into, but what would stop an unintended "power" command? The drive motors would still be trying to turn until the power connection from the batteries were manually severed.
     
  2. Ckanderson

    Ckanderson Member

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    Get that logic out of here!

    This needs to be blamed on a manufacturer so the end user doesn’t have to take responsibility for anything
     
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  3. quantumslip

    quantumslip Member

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    First of all I said it would reduce but not eliminate these issues. Your response is like saying that "most sudden acceleration are from cars with seatbelts". People still die even with seatbelts, but they've helped. See how ridiculous that sounds?

    I don't get why people feel so defensive about making creep mode on by default. We're not taking away the choice to have it off.
     
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  4. Tam

    Tam Well-Known Member

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    Both ICE and Tesla have seatbelts.

    So we are not talking about seatbelts.

    We are talking about what Tesla has that ICE does not!

    ICE does not have regen and Tesla does.

    So we are not talking about what ICE and Tesla have in common but how Tesla exceeds common ICE creep standard with regen capability.

    All ICE have creep as default and have no option for regen.

    I am just pointing out the advantage of not imitating ICE creep is if in panic, lifting both feet up would decelerate the car.

    I would suggest Tesla to switch to one-pedal driving just like the new Nissan Leaf.

    Lifting both feet up would result in a complete halt even while the car is on its way of the middle of the steep hill (up to approximately a 30-percent steepness grade). It's a full stop without touching the brake pedal at all!

    There's no need to worry about which pedal will do the job, just lift both of your feet up!
     
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  5. quantumslip

    quantumslip Member

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    you are completely missing my point.

    first of all i brought up seatbelts to counter your creep cars = ice = most cars with sudden acceleration. ice cars have seatbelts too, but also have sudden acceleration as well, but you wouldn't blame seatbelts for causing sudden acceleration.

    in you really want to be pedantic about it you could say ice cars have gas, and sudden acceleration, therefore gas causes sudden acceleration. see how stupid that sounds?

    i wanted creep so one could do low-speed maneuvering without having to press the gas pedal. in that scenario the foot is likely to be over the brake and not over the accelerator.

    you bringing in the e-pedal is a completely different scenario and covers a much broader set of circumstances. furthermore by default e-pedal is OFF, which gives users the choice of turning it on. and that's what tesla should do, make creep on be default.
     
  6. Tam

    Tam Well-Known Member

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    Logically, because it was a slow speed collision to the wall, even if there were no brake application, the car would be stopped by the wall even though the motors and tires might still be slowly spinning.

    When the driver gets off the car, the propulsion would be automatically shut off. That would then stop the spinning of the motors and tires.

    However, please ask Tesla for what actually happen, not just by logic.
     
  7. Tam

    Tam Well-Known Member

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    We will have to be in disagreement on the subject of creep.

    You are pro-creep.

    I am anti-creep and I would like to go further to promote one-pedal driving just like Nissan leaf e-Pedal has because creep reminds me of the obsolete ICE.

    You believe creep is helpful in reducing Sudden Acceleration claims.

    I on the other hand believe one-pedal driving Nissan leaf e-Pedal is the solution.

    In summary, we are far apart in creep and anti-creep.
     
    • Like x 1
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  8. eprosenx

    eprosenx Active Member

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    The car took off like a rocket when I barely touched the accelerator. I jammed on the brake to stop it. I have no idea if it stopped accelerating when I pulled my foot all the way off the gas or when I hit the brake, but I was not waiting to find out before hitting the brake.

    I never said I pressed the brake and the accelerator at the same time. I started the car with my foot on the brake (I ALWAYS put my foot on the brake the instant I get in any car), and then I lightly touched the accelerator. Car took off so I slammed on the brake and it behaved as I would expect.

    I have never had unintended acceleration in my 20+ years of driving. I think I have a pretty good feel for the two pedal system with my shoes on.

    I also have always owned manual transmission vehicles (with the exception of my truck) and so I have a pretty good feel for vehicles with no "creep" (which I keep turned off on my Model 3).
     
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  9. quantumslip

    quantumslip Member

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    it is not. e-pedal would solve the issue if it can help with low speed maneuvering which it does not. you still have to put your foot on the accelerator, which could cause someone to unintentionally smash it. that is not a defect of e-pedal, but the nature of it's design.

    and i don't know why you have to be so protective of it. for the last time, just because i am asking for creep to be default does not mean that i'm asking for creep off to be removed.

    and e-pedal does not have to be exclusive of creep. both can be settings and then one could choose how they want to drive the car.

    and just because an ICE does it doesn't mean it's automatically bad.
     
    • Like x 1
  10. Tam

    Tam Well-Known Member

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    Agreed.

    I have no objections for 2 user selectable options in Tesla:

    1) Creep
    2) Nissan Leaf e-Pedal
     
  11. Tam

    Tam Well-Known Member

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    I have no doubt of your good driving history.

    I've known people who got very good and very long driving history but also got sudden acceleration (all gasoline cars so far) too.

    They all insisted that they did not make a mistake on the pedal.

    However, lacking the cars' logs or videotaping of their feet, I would default my belief on NTHSA and NASA research that it's "pedal misapplication".
     
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  12. quantumslip

    quantumslip Member

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    wow, how many times do i have to say

    CREEP WOULD REDUCE NOT ELIMINATE SUCH INCIDENTS

    yet you keep going back to incidents happening even on cars that do have creep

    i don't dispute that.

    your argument is like people still die in cars with airbags, therefore airbags are pointless.

    i give up trying to get you to understand my point. you don't have to agree with me but your arguments just don't make sense.
     
    • Disagree x 1
  13. cizUK

    cizUK Member

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    That's illegal in the UK
     
  14. GolanB

    GolanB Supporting Member

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    You may or may not be aware, but in addition to reporting your event to Tesla, the Model 3 manual states clearly you should also report your issue to the NHTSA. See below.

    In the mean time, a friend worked with Tesla escalation and finally got a description of what occurred with his vehicle (relating to an incident while autopilot was engaged) approximately one month after opening the case with Tesla. Tesla gave him an initial estimation of 7-21 days before issuing a verbal report (which was read to him by a support employee but not emailed.). He remained in contact with them weekly until the follow up occurred. Follow up is very important, don’t give up.

    AD5C0B5A-E0E2-46E8-8737-70EB86378E9A.jpeg
     
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  15. trm2

    trm2 Member

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    Yeah, because TV Stations from major networks in major markets NEVER do anything wrong.


    KTVU's racist reporting on Asiana 214:
     
    • Funny x 1
  16. 5_+JqckQttqck

    5_+JqckQttqck Active Member

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    There's video, so lets analyze the heck out of it.
    upload_2019-6-12_8-17-37.png
    1. Assuming Creep is on. Here's when the "brakes" would be applied (50% chance she hit the wrong pedal).

    upload_2019-6-12_8-19-38.png
    2. From the damage to the garage door was likely on the way up when the car "unintendedly accelerated" (Still 50% of hitting the wrong pedal). The rest of the car should have a ton of paint damage (No pictures shown of the whole car, shiatty reporting).

    upload_2019-6-12_8-22-54.png
    3. Tires spun after she came to a halt hitting her husband's car inside the garage (So the "unintended acceleration" continued after she crashed through the door; my guess is she's still in shock and floored the accelerator pedal some more. Applying brakes would not burn rubber here. People do one of two things in panic, freeze and squeeze or jump back and release all grip).

    upload_2019-6-12_8-26-41.png
    4. Face touching when telling a story - hiding something, lying (diy research, argue with me here if you wish).

    upload_2019-6-12_8-29-25.png
    5. Why not show more of the car?? ("Fishy", if the car was actually in AP, this wouldn't have happened = Driver Error).
     
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  17. Msjulie

    Msjulie Active Member

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    I am surprised no one brought this up - how long till we see articles where drivers blame ELDA for steering into something..
     
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  18. Tam

    Tam Well-Known Member

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    There have been quite a few posters in TMC complaining about Autosteer misbehaving which resulted in near misses. Also, during summon, the automatic steering steered the car into obstacles which resulted in damages too. News outlets have been reporting the recent Mountain View, CA lawsuit accusing that the autosteer fatally veered the car into the cement divider.
     
  19. Msjulie

    Msjulie Active Member

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    The Mountain View lawsuit, that was AP right?

    I've been quite vocal, somehow you missed me :), on claiming that not being able to permanently disable ELDA is a bad thing and customer unfriendly.. this feels really related to me..
     
  20. GolanB

    GolanB Supporting Member

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    Yesterday, during Tesla's yearly shareholder meeting, several members brought up the issue of poor reporting by the news media. Elon responded that the issue was a difficult one. He mentioned that very often, Tesla's response to these articles is quoted deeper into the article (sometimes seven paragraphs down) if at all. He felt they were doing the best they could under the circumstances.

    Not mentioned was that Tesla had released software tools (free of charge) on their website to download and interpret EDR data, and the hardware available to read this information is considerably cheaper than those available from other manufacturers.

    One of the recommendations was that Tesla develop a single document to address the most commonly misreported events (like car fires) that could be used to educate and inform others. He seemed to like the idea of Tesla customers helping to spread this information in the same way they do today with referrals.

    Someone else brought up the idea of sitting down with Bloomberg himself as someone who has been a proponent for clean energy and having a fair and frank discussion. Elon responded by saying that recently Bloomberg also contributed to the issue but that may be helpful.

    Elon seemed to downplay the idea of investing in advertising and felt that Tesla's current demand is already higher than their ability to build and that spending resources on anything other than getting vehicles out the door might not be a good idea.
     
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