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Cyclone
Cyclonic Member ((.oO))
My understanding is it depends on the terms when you bought as it has changed. Some are $200 per issue, some are $200 per visit. Check your contract accordingly.
I believe Tesla is treating all ESAs the same in terms of charging $200 per visit, not per issue. This has nothing to do with when you bought your car. My ESA was one of the early ones for $2,500 where the $200 fee was per issue, however after Tesla changed the terms I am only being charged $200 per visit.
I have 2014 Model S and same problem - the bubbles started at the top and have now coalesced to form a long horizontal bubble. Very disappointing. Service center wants around $1023 to replace the screen - is this going to happen every 4 years? What if I don't get it repaired? The screen seems to function fine.
You've got a nice pool of industrial adhesive near your little console cubby. It will eventually overflow and leak down. Screen will continue to work for quite awhile. Its quality of life, and be glad they came up with a screen only fix. I believe they have rectified the problem going forward though, no evidence of it happening again.
Does this mean that replacing the screen gets you an LTE upgrade from 3G and other hardware/software upgrade that is not possible OTA? Thanks.
No. LTE is different hardware, you need a complete replacement. Some folks back in the day were barganing/goodwilling LTE as part of the "need" to swap the entire MCU. It's always a good talking point to have
I am chiming in here with the hope of getting Tesla to realize that charging full price for this kind of defect is not good customer service. Not a recall, as others have mentioned, but just something that distinguishes a rookie car company from an established, good one. Can you imagine Lexus ever telling a customer that a failure in 4-5 years due to a routine design flaw is not their problem?
My 2012 S85 only has 33,000 miles. I am totally a fan and have posted many times to support Tesla. Bubbles started 6 months ago and now have formed 3/4 of the way around my screen border and the sticky gel drips out of the bottom of the screen onto whatever is in the console tray. It does take Goo-gone to remove. So obviously, it is a sealing adhesive that isn't supposed to liquify in 4 years. Matches the pictures others have posted perfectly.
I've been told by the service rep that when there were screens in the supply chain, the swap was $1000. Now, only the entire MCU is available for replacement (~$3,000). No screens in the entire supply inventory. I should probably check every 3 months to see if that changes. Out-of-warranty, of course.
I request that Tesla (a) make this a free warranty fix up to 8 years or at the very least (b) make the lowest-price fix kit possible for it ($500?). Allowing the screen to drop out of the supply chain is a stupidity tax on the part of Tesla. I don't want to pay it, so I am going to spend as long as I can showing off my less-than-impressive Tesla screen.
My 2012 S85 only has 33,000 miles. I am totally a fan and have posted many times to support Tesla. Bubbles started 6 months ago and now have formed 3/4 of the way around my screen border and the sticky gel drips out of the bottom of the screen onto whatever is in the console tray. It does take Goo-gone to remove. So obviously, it is a sealing adhesive that isn't supposed to liquify in 4 years. Matches the pictures others have posted perfectly.
I've been told by the service rep that when there were screens in the supply chain, the swap was $1000. Now, only the entire MCU is available for replacement (~$3,000). No screens in the entire supply inventory. I should probably check every 3 months to see if that changes. Out-of-warranty, of course.
I request that Tesla (a) make this a free warranty fix up to 8 years or at the very least (b) make the lowest-price fix kit possible for it ($500?). Allowing the screen to drop out of the supply chain is a stupidity tax on the part of Tesla. I don't want to pay it, so I am going to spend as long as I can showing off my less-than-impressive Tesla screen.
You could fix it yourself if you're willing to fork over the cash for them to do it. Two options:
Source a screen from a salvage car and do it yourself (this isnt too hard to do yourself, its kind of like replacing a phone screen)
or
Ask them if they'll do it with a salvage screen (doubt they will but if they are being arseholes about the whole MCU they might budge)
to P85-TIM original poster, and other comrades with this issue:
Please indulge me for a moment;
1. I have come across over 90+ posts of this same issue happening to 4+ year owners.
2. In my quick review over 20 of them had extended warranty (i.e., Tesla made money from insurance) and about 30 had paid out of pocket (Tesla made money). If you take an MCU (that is what they replaced under ESP) at $3K and assume others spent $1K by my rough estimate, Tesla revenue from this issue is close to 100K. This is just from what is in forums.
3. Let's look at the root cause: Based on some information obtained from Tesla supply chain the liquid between the touch screen and LED/LCD ( I will call it Glue) used in the early model Model S had chemical properties where at 120 degrees it will soften and at 140 it will liquify. (let's just say I have gotten some useful info on this topic from a reliable source). If you speak to any chemist, they will also tell you that a non-vacuum sealed compound will change its melting point properties as it heats (expands) and contracts (cools) over time. (think using much higher melting points for long-term longevity or vacuum sealed compartment).
4. I am not an attorney, but a quick Google search of "Product Defect Laws" made me call one real quick. The laws are simple: If the product was used as intended, and manufacturer designed it for the intended use, they should have anticipated conditions of use, and therefore should have build product from components that will withstand intended use. i.e., a 5 mph bumper has to be built from materials to withstand 5 mph hit without fail. (that is just example because that is regulatory and provided an illustration).
5. Lets google Vehicle Heat Study (or how hot the car gets inside). Link: http://noheatstroke.org/heating_summary.JPG
6. Then the reasonable question becomes: (from the point of law) Should Tesla engineers have anticipated that the temperature in the car will rise above 120 degrees or even 140.
7. Now that I have been educated it is easy to understand the root cause of the three common issues: bubbles, cracking-like delamination, and finally leakages of the glue mentioned above. Let me make a couple of assumptions for my "dear ladies and gentlemen of the jury" moment: If your car was parked outside for an hour and the temperature outside was in low 70's on a sunny day you most likely to develop bubbles. If you were in the 80's for the same time, enough melting occurred to create a giant bubble that looks like a rounded crack. And if you were the lucky person with black interior living in Arizona or anywhere where the 90's prevail you may have noticed a nice puddle of glue or a mistery liquid.
8. My "ladies and gentlemen of the jury moment." would not have been completed without question from Sherlock Holmes: So why it happens after 4+ years Huh? This one was a tough one, but the proximity of the issues falling on around the same time makes for a good conspiracy theory ( and I am willing to pay $3K to a chemical lab to test it). What needs to be tested is that after X number of heat/cold cycles that "Glue" properties diminish to the point where they no longer hold the top coat of the screen to LCD itself. In other words, its a used clear tape that does not contain any more or its sticky part or in case of "too hot" it merely departed from its location onto your Model S floor.
9. I guess as for the owner, what upsets me the most in this situation is that Tesla has fixed the issue by going to a better grade material and changing manufacturing process around how the screen is bonded. So indeed they have realized the defect in their design. So for people who have paid or are being asked to pay for fixing this defect in design, it feels like a big "FU" or slap on the face from the company that builds futuristic cars while failing to consider conditions in which they are going to be used.
In conclusion;
In a recent interview, Tim Cook said the following: "if we stand and say nothing, it's as if we agree, We become a part of it." This is why after reading every post on this topic ( and saving each and one of them in Evernote) I cant merely accept Tesla's position on this issue. I have to do something about it.
Recently, I have sent a notice of intent to file a lawsuit on this issue. It was met with "Blah blah out of warranty here is your estimate" response from the local service center. My next step is to follow through on my promise and see if we can convince "the ladies and gentlemen of the jury" that, by a preponderance of evidence (most of which is already collected and lots of it will come from discovery), Tesla had the responsibility to consider the temperature in their design and material selections, and maybe they were a bit negligent (or a lot) by failing to recognize that car interior temperatures can get really hard.
The goal: I hope that at the minimum (if successful) it will give a boilerplate for all other folks who have the same issue to seek the same relief.
My best hope is that given the above (if proven to be correct) Tesla issues a Service Bulletin to repair the ones not yet fixed, and refund money to people who had to pay for Tesla's design mistakes (if indeed this is the case)
If you like to stay updated on my progress please PM with email or just PM me so that I can update you on how things went.
Disclosure: The above are my assumptions based on my research, they are to be verified as part of the legal process (upon commencement of such) and expert witness involvement. While they appear to be logical, at the time I am writing this they are in no way conclusive and shall not be held against Tesla in any negative way until adequately tested and validated. Consider this a free speech conspiracy theory (for now).
Please indulge me for a moment;
1. I have come across over 90+ posts of this same issue happening to 4+ year owners.
2. In my quick review over 20 of them had extended warranty (i.e., Tesla made money from insurance) and about 30 had paid out of pocket (Tesla made money). If you take an MCU (that is what they replaced under ESP) at $3K and assume others spent $1K by my rough estimate, Tesla revenue from this issue is close to 100K. This is just from what is in forums.
3. Let's look at the root cause: Based on some information obtained from Tesla supply chain the liquid between the touch screen and LED/LCD ( I will call it Glue) used in the early model Model S had chemical properties where at 120 degrees it will soften and at 140 it will liquify. (let's just say I have gotten some useful info on this topic from a reliable source). If you speak to any chemist, they will also tell you that a non-vacuum sealed compound will change its melting point properties as it heats (expands) and contracts (cools) over time. (think using much higher melting points for long-term longevity or vacuum sealed compartment).
4. I am not an attorney, but a quick Google search of "Product Defect Laws" made me call one real quick. The laws are simple: If the product was used as intended, and manufacturer designed it for the intended use, they should have anticipated conditions of use, and therefore should have build product from components that will withstand intended use. i.e., a 5 mph bumper has to be built from materials to withstand 5 mph hit without fail. (that is just example because that is regulatory and provided an illustration).
5. Lets google Vehicle Heat Study (or how hot the car gets inside). Link: http://noheatstroke.org/heating_summary.JPG
6. Then the reasonable question becomes: (from the point of law) Should Tesla engineers have anticipated that the temperature in the car will rise above 120 degrees or even 140.
7. Now that I have been educated it is easy to understand the root cause of the three common issues: bubbles, cracking-like delamination, and finally leakages of the glue mentioned above. Let me make a couple of assumptions for my "dear ladies and gentlemen of the jury" moment: If your car was parked outside for an hour and the temperature outside was in low 70's on a sunny day you most likely to develop bubbles. If you were in the 80's for the same time, enough melting occurred to create a giant bubble that looks like a rounded crack. And if you were the lucky person with black interior living in Arizona or anywhere where the 90's prevail you may have noticed a nice puddle of glue or a mistery liquid.
8. My "ladies and gentlemen of the jury moment." would not have been completed without question from Sherlock Holmes: So why it happens after 4+ years Huh? This one was a tough one, but the proximity of the issues falling on around the same time makes for a good conspiracy theory ( and I am willing to pay $3K to a chemical lab to test it). What needs to be tested is that after X number of heat/cold cycles that "Glue" properties diminish to the point where they no longer hold the top coat of the screen to LCD itself. In other words, its a used clear tape that does not contain any more or its sticky part or in case of "too hot" it merely departed from its location onto your Model S floor.
9. I guess as for the owner, what upsets me the most in this situation is that Tesla has fixed the issue by going to a better grade material and changing manufacturing process around how the screen is bonded. So indeed they have realized the defect in their design. So for people who have paid or are being asked to pay for fixing this defect in design, it feels like a big "FU" or slap on the face from the company that builds futuristic cars while failing to consider conditions in which they are going to be used.
In conclusion;
In a recent interview, Tim Cook said the following: "if we stand and say nothing, it's as if we agree, We become a part of it." This is why after reading every post on this topic ( and saving each and one of them in Evernote) I cant merely accept Tesla's position on this issue. I have to do something about it.
Recently, I have sent a notice of intent to file a lawsuit on this issue. It was met with "Blah blah out of warranty here is your estimate" response from the local service center. My next step is to follow through on my promise and see if we can convince "the ladies and gentlemen of the jury" that, by a preponderance of evidence (most of which is already collected and lots of it will come from discovery), Tesla had the responsibility to consider the temperature in their design and material selections, and maybe they were a bit negligent (or a lot) by failing to recognize that car interior temperatures can get really hard.
The goal: I hope that at the minimum (if successful) it will give a boilerplate for all other folks who have the same issue to seek the same relief.
My best hope is that given the above (if proven to be correct) Tesla issues a Service Bulletin to repair the ones not yet fixed, and refund money to people who had to pay for Tesla's design mistakes (if indeed this is the case)
If you like to stay updated on my progress please PM with email or just PM me so that I can update you on how things went.
Disclosure: The above are my assumptions based on my research, they are to be verified as part of the legal process (upon commencement of such) and expert witness involvement. While they appear to be logical, at the time I am writing this they are in no way conclusive and shall not be held against Tesla in any negative way until adequately tested and validated. Consider this a free speech conspiracy theory (for now).
This is clearly not a design issue. While it appears to be a fairly common problem it is far far from occurring in every car, even every early build car that lives in a hot climate. It seems far more likely that it was a manufacturing issue that effected a specific lot of MCUs.
That being said, it sucks for the owners that are affected by it. Particularly as it seems to be an issue around when the MCU goes out of warranty.
From an owner perspective, how does this explanation changes the facts that defect of some sort (design or manufacturing) has caused people to fork over thousands of dollars? In a race to deliver cutting-edge products to please shareholders companies make conscious decision to cut corners on the scope of design assumptions and methods and processes for manufacturing. In both cases they make a conscious decision to put product schedules and profits ahead of quality of product and design. The consumer shall not be liable for this risk-taking by the company. If you add that the company is making a profit from consumers to repair their design or manufacturing issues, that motivates them to shift the liability to any other design or process.
No one likes filing suits or being a part of the process. But in some cases, there is no alternative when the Company takes a position that is questionable and to some extent insulting to the product owners.
The same exact issue happened to me this week. I'm in Texas as well. Screen started getting bubbles, glue is dripping off bottom, etc. I have a 2014 S with about 41K and I'm a little less than 4 months out of warranty. Per your comprehensive post it is clear to me this is an common issue that Tesla needs to address in a more satisfactory way than making us pay for the entire repair. Please keep me posted and I'd be happy to sign any type of petition, etc.
What build month? Uncommon in the 2014's after a certain build month based on my limited anecdotal evidence.
LoL Rick
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