BUY FSD TODAY!

[xav-]

One thought I had relevant to this thread is how Tesla will handle the influx of service requests for HW3. While it will be less than an hour service, survey that will hammer service centres.

Perhaps Tesla will send out invites in waves, starting with people who have had FSD the longest. This will surely be welcome for those who’ve been waiting a while and justify a long wait service appointment wait for those that haven’t paid for FSD yet.

Just a thought in case getting FSD features as soon as they become available to you.

I think it will be a great opportunity to make a quick buck.. and what better opportunity to make a quick buck than to sell this to all EAP customers (not just the very few who purchased FSD)?

Also they could sell this as part of the EAP upgrade for those who don’t have EAP

 

[mike123abc]

I think it unlikely that Tesla will start giving away EAP for free any time soon. However, the history of safety features in cars is that at first they are optional extras and eventually they become standard.

Except that a lot of the features such as traffic aware cruse control (TACC), lane departure warnings, blind spot monitoring, etc. come standard with a lot of cars now. Half the features of EAP are now standard for most of the industry. EAP really needs to be a $2500 package with the self steering and automatic lane changes in it. The TACC and all the warnings should be in the base vehicle price.

The problem Tesla faces is that TACC, blind spot monitoring, and lane departure warnings are probably good enough for most people and they would not pay the $2500 for the other features at this time.

Tesla should start lowering the price of EAP, perhaps $500 every quarter until it is included in the base price.

 

[Knightshade]

Tesla probably is very close to a bifurcation of the "FSD" package from the EAP package, where some new feature will be introduced to the former that is not given to the latter. Speculation is on telling you what lane to be in on the freeway (something Google Maps does now)

So does Teslas nav- and has for a while. No EAP needed.

or maybe actually changing lanes without your having to take any action to tell it to.

That's the "full" version of Drive on Nav- that's part of EAP, not FSD. They just released the beta version (where it'll suggest lane changes and you confirm with stalk)- Supposedly in another 10m miles they'll let you turn off the confirm requirement (which given the current EAP fleet is maybe a week or two of driving once the SW update makes it to all of the fleet)

Some people think maybe Level 3 (no nag) on the freeway. But true full self-driving is a decade away.

Yeah, that's my expectation of the first "big" FSD thing... level 3 on divided highways it has good map confidence in.

Honestly that's worth the 3k pre-purchase price alone to me (and doubly so if they'll give me level 4 of the same thing so one could sleep on road trips that are mostly interstate)

First "little" thing will probably be reading speed limit signs, given AP1 kinda sorta did that kind of ok.

Except that a lot of the features such as traffic aware cruse control (TACC), lane departure warnings, blind spot monitoring, etc. come standard with a lot of cars now. Half the features of EAP are now standard for most of the industry.

Yes but they mostly suck.

I've tried the TACC equivalent on 4 or 5 other brands (including some luxury ones) and they're terrible compared to Teslas version... don't work down to 0 (and back up again, nearest follow distance leaves you constantly getting cut off, etc...

How much better EAP was on my normal drive to/from work than anything else I tried from other cars was the reason I decided to buy a Tesla.

 

[SemiS3XYR]

Has anyone successfully added it off menu? How much is it?

I ordered Model 3 MR the day after announcement. I didn’t order EAP but i’m definitely changing that and now seriously considering FSD. I plan to keep this car approx 8 years?

 

[daniel]

If you love new features, having the latest and greatest and take part of the beginning of self driving cars, sure go ahead!
If you can handle to miss out on some features, and can wait for full self driving when it's actually there (for whatever price that will be), then no.

I would modify the above: If you love having new features and you believe that they will come in a reasonable time frame. A lot of people are making assumptions about what features will come and when, and Elon's chrono-optimism tends to be infectious.

The real issue is not whether you want new features, but whether you want to gamble on pre-ordering. Pre-ordering gets you the package for less money, but you're buying sight-unseen. The alternative is not to do without the features. The alternative is to wait and pay more if you decide you want the features once they exist and you know what you're getting.

... that's my expectation of the first "big" FSD thing... level 3 on divided highways it has good map confidence in.

Honestly that's worth the 3k pre-purchase price alone to me (and doubly so if they'll give me level 4 of the same thing so one could sleep on road trips that are mostly interstate)

I agree that would be worth it. But Level 3 is more than just having confidence in the map. It's also the ability to recognize and react to small obstacles, etc. I think that "eyes off the road" driving will be harder to achieve than many of the "features" such as drive on NAV. I think that Drive on NAV will require full driver alertness for a very long time.

Here's a situation that came up often during my summer trip: I'm on a two-lane highway with periodic passing lanes. Sometimes the painted line directs my car correctly into the slow lane. Sometimes incorrectly into the fast lane. And sometimes its ambiguous. Level 3 will require the car to make the correct choice 99% of the time.

How much better EAP was on my normal drive to/from work than anything else I tried from other cars was the reason I decided to buy a Tesla.

I bought my first Tesla because it was electric. That was THE reason. I bought my Model 3 because I wanted a more practical and safe car and among electric cars today, there's really no competition. No other EV comes close. Having the best autopilot is just gravy for me.

 

[emmz0r]

We are all guessing. "Premium upgrade package" used to be a buy up and it was a similar cost to EAP. Dual motors used to be a buy up on S and X, now standard. Etc. Look to past behavior to predict future behavior...

And at the same time they raised the base price. At least for the premium interior. So it was never free.

 

[djgarrett21]

Somehow the notion that Tesla is going to up-charge HW2 folks for HW3 has sunk into the common consciousness of this forum and it is simply not true. Folks need to get that out of their minds.

-Tesla has advertised and STILL does advertise that all HW 2 vehicles come pre-installed with all required FSD hardware. That is a feature that you've already paid for and that Tesla is legally obligated to deliver - whether you purchase FSD now or later. Forum goers know that HW3 is what Tesla has most recently stated as required for FSD, but Joe Blow who doesn't follow Elon's twitter doesn't know that. So as long as someone has purchased a vehicle while that declaration is on the website Tesla cannot legally charge an additional fee for FSD hardware.

The price of FSD could very well change in the future, but the idea that Tesla will charge $X for FSD unlock and $Y for the hardware is simply not legal for them to do.

The price of the FSD package will be the same for cars running HW2, HW3, HW4, and on into infinity as long as Tesla advertises that cars have the needed hardware pre-installed. They've locked themselves into that construct because that is what they've asserted to be installed on the vehicle.

 

[SemiS3XYR]

Yea I’m very confused. Poster make it sound like its a FACT that HW3 will be retrofitted if you pre purchased FSD but as @djgarrett21 points out Tesla has advertised that the model 3 has hardware already installed for full autonomy driving so from the inset they shot themselves in the foot but of course they can chane their tune anytime just like options and pricing haha

 

[djgarrett21]

Yea I’m very confused. Poster make it sound like its a FACT that HW3 will be retrofitted if you pre purchased FSD but as @djgarrett21 points out Tesla has advertised that the model 3 has hardware already installed for full autonomy driving so from the inset they shot themselves in the foot but of course they can chane their tune anytime just like options and pricing haha

Yes they can change what they advertise in the future but at the time you purchased your vehicle Tesla certified that it had all FSD hardware already on it. Now, Tesla may decide not to upgrade the hardware until you purchase FSD and I see that is acceptable, but they cannot legally charge you to retrofit for FSD.

 

[KenF]

The price of the FSD package will be the same for cars running HW2, HW3, HW4, and on into infinity as long as Tesla advertises that cars have the needed hardware pre-installed. They've locked themselves into that construct because that is what they've asserted to be installed on the vehicle.

Tesla has indicated that HW2 hardware is sufficient for EAP and that only FSD purchasers will receive the software and any new hardware (including HW3) necessary to enable FSD features. Tesla can and will continue to adjust/increase EAP and FSD pricing as they deem appropriate.

In June, Tesla increased post-delivery FSD pricing from $4000 to $5000. Elon said Tesla would refund the $1000 difference to owners who purchased their car prior to the FSD price increase. Tesla also indicated during their earnings calls that FSD pricing may change in the future. Current owners could be “grandfathered” in at the FSD pricing available at the time of vehicle purchase, but Tesla is under no legal obligation to do that.

For vehicle purchases after October 18, 2018 (when Tesla removed FSD as an online purchase option for new vehicles), does Tesla even offer FSD as a $5000 post-delivery option on their web site? If not, those owners have no reasonable expectation of a FSD upgrade for $5000.

 

[Robotpedlr]

I don’t agree with people that think the a company posting something on a sales site about future capabilities is a legal obligation. That’s what contracts are for.

Plus if they said that all hw2 cars have what they need to run FSD doesn’t mean they have to give you HW3 if you didn’t buy FSD (since it wouldn’t apply to you). And lastly nothing says they can’tcharge $6k for FSD for HW3 customers when it is released and decide to charge $20k to HW2 people that didn’t prebuilt FSD. Only time will tell.

 

[djgarrett21]

[

Tesla has indicated that HW2 hardware is sufficient for EAP and that only FSD purchasers will receive the software and any new hardware (including HW3) necessary to enable FSD features. Tesla can and will continue to adjust/increase EAP and FSD pricing as they deem appropriate.

In June, Tesla increased post-delivery FSD pricing from $4000 to $5000. Elon said Tesla would refund the $1000 difference to owners who purchased their car prior to the FSD price increase. Tesla also indicated during their earnings calls that FSD pricing may change in the future. Current owners could be “grandfathered” in at the FSD pricing available at the time of vehicle purchase, but Tesla is under no legal obligation to do that.

For vehicle purchases after October 18, 2018 (when Tesla removed FSD as an online purchase option for new vehicles), does Tesla even offer FSD as a $5000 post-delivery option on their web site? If not, those owners have no reasonable expectation of a FSD upgrade for $5000.

We are talking about different things. Tesla can change the price as they want, I'm taking about what Tesla has certified as being installed.

 

[djgarrett21]

I don’t agree with people that think the a company posting something on a sales site about future capabilities is a legal obligation. That’s what contracts are for.

Plus if they said that all hw2 cars have what they need to run FSD doesn’t mean they have to give you HW3 if you didn’t buy FSD (since it wouldn’t apply to you). And lastly nothing says they can’tcharge $6k for FSD for HW3 customers when it is released and decide to charge $20k to HW2 people that didn’t prebuilt FSD. Only time will tell.

Absolutely they are legally bound to deliver what they have advertised on their sales site. What other medium is a customer supposed to refer to when purchasing?

Tesla can try charging HW2 folks more but they can't do it legally.

 

[KenF]

[

We are talking about different things. Tesla can change the price as they want, I'm taking about what Tesla has certified as being installed.

I don’t see the relevance. If a person isn’t buying the FSD package, they have no reasonable expectation of receiving new hardware, at any price. Currently, if you have 2.0 hardware and want to upgrade to 2.5 hardware to add dash camera functionality, the cost is ~$10K assuming you can find a rep willing to sell it to you.

 

[djgarrett21]

I don’t see the relevance. If a person isn’t buying the FSD package, they have no reasonable expectation of receiving new hardware, at any price. Currently, if you have 2.0 hardware and want to upgrade to 2.5 hardware to add dash camera functionality, the cost is ~$10K assuming you can find a rep willing to sell it to you.

You do have a reasonable expectation that your car has necessary hardware because that is what Tesla has certified. Because of that Tesla cannot charge you for necessary hardware to enable FSD.
Tesla has never advertised dashcam hardware for 2.0 so that is a moot point.

 

[aronth5]

Knowing a little about autonomy, and then having owned my Model 3 for 2 months, I just don’t understand how anyone can think that FSD is “close”.

Now, that’s not to say that Tesla won’t make some of the Autopilot features exclusive to those who own the FSD upgrade, but real, FULL autonomy is truly 7-10 years away. There are far FAR too many places where roads and infrastructure simply isn’t ready even if Tesla was. I’m incredibly glad I didn’t spend the extra money. My next car may have it, or even the one after that.

The key question is to what extent will Tesla implemental "incremental" FSD on the journey to full FSD? So 7-10 years for full FSD makes sense but there are iterations of FSD that many on the forum would be very happy to get even if it doesn't conform to Level 5 standards. Tesla is getting closer to FSD on the highway. Not their yet but definitely on the way. So what might the next step be after highways?

 

[KenF]

You do have a reasonable expectation that your car has necessary hardware because that is what Tesla has certified. Because of that Tesla cannot charge you for necessary hardware to enable FSD.

Agree to disagree. Good luck with that. To this point, Tesla has said publicly that FSD option buyers will receive the 3.0 hardware. Tesla has also said publicly that the 3.0 hardware is unnecessary and not needed for vehicles without the FSD option. There’s always the possibility that Tesla offers the 3.0 hardware upgrade for free to all 2.0/2.5 hardware owners, but, to this point, Elon’s public comments and Tesla’s statements to shareholders suggest otherwise.

 

[daniel]

For vehicle purchases after October 18, 2018 (when Tesla removed FSD as an online purchase option for new vehicles), does Tesla even offer FSD as a $5000 post-delivery option on their web site? If not, those owners have no reasonable expectation of a FSD upgrade for $5000.

It kind of looks as though there's going to be a group of cars in limbo: Before October 18, 2018, cars were sold as having all the hardware needed for FSD, so if you bought the FSD package they have a moral (and perhaps legal) obligation to upgrade the hardware. Once the HW 3 hardware comes to the new cars, presumably they'll once again say the cars have all the hardware needed for FSD, and have the same obligation to upgrade hardware if they again decide the cars still don't have the hardware they need. But cars sold between Oct 18 and the release of HW 3 are not being sold as having the needed hardware, so these buyers could be in the uncomfortable situation of having to pay a very large added upgrade fee to get to the FSD package.

That's assuming they resume making the promise.

Another route would be to do like computer companies (since these cars are almost more computer than car) and build cars with the newest technology and sell software to people who own compatible hardware. Free software upgrades for a set period of time, but no obligation that new features would run on old hardware. They'd have to find a way to satisfy people who bought pre-Oct-18 cars on the assumption that they would become truly FSD.

Like the song says, "Don't make no promises you can't keep."

 

[john85775]

Tesla never said the FSD buy up price was good for eternity, did they?

 

[insaneoctane]

Tesla never said the FSD buy up price was good for eternity, did they?

How long did they imply the buy up price would last?