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Buying decision used LR (2019) or refreshed SR+ (2021)

Hi guys

I want to get a Model 3 soon, but i'm having a hard time deciding between a new 2021 SR+ or a used LR.
A new SR+ would cost me around 42k. A used LR would cost me roughly the same, with 35k-50k km (21000 - 31000 miles) and EAP (all currently in stock seem to have it).
Most of these are 2019 and i would buy directly from Tesla, so in terms of warranty this means -> Basic Tesla warranty will end at some point in 2023, and then i'd get 1 additional year of used car warranty from Tesla.

About my trips:
I would use the car for my work trips, which would be around 120km (75 miles) per day.
I do the occasional longer trip, but realistically they will be around 300km (190 miles).
Aside from that, i'd just use the car normally in my free time. Some highway, some normal streets, usually similar to my work trips in terms of distance.

Some thoughts:
Sound -> I do listen to music every time i use my car. My understanding is that the 2019 LR has a better sound system than the 2021 SR+.
Range -> The SR+ would be sufficient for most trips, but well, more range is more range.
Autopilot -> I'm mostly interested in the lane keep on highways, speed limit recognition and distance to the car in front. My understanding is that the basic Autopilot does all this.

I've watched a few videos comparing the 2021 and 2019 models. While many of the changes seem pretty neat and nice to have, the one that stands out the most to me is the heat pump. I live in Switzerland and winters can get pretty cold.

What would you guys do in this situation, which one would you prefer?
Personally, if money wasn't of importance i would get a 2021 LR. But they start at around 55k, so that's not really an option for me. My budget/limit is right around 40-44k

Thanks in advance.
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
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Nov 28, 2018
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Riverside Co. CA
This is a pretty popular question. The general discussion / opinion is going to be the same as the other threads on this topic. I will link a few for you to review. There are a few more than this, but these should get you started at reading the general consensus on this question.

 
Hi @jjrandorin

Thanks for the links. I've actually searched the forums and read 2-3 threads, but you linked some that i hadn't found.
I guess at the end its a personal decision, but the tendency seems to be to get the LR. Personally i'm also tending more towards the LR, i'm just not 100% convinced/sure yet. It does feel a bit "wrong" to buy a used car, when you can buy a new one for the same price (with lesser equipment of course).

While i'm on the subject:
Is the general consensus that a used Tesla should be bought from Tesla directly? I've read quite a few horror stories here on the forum. I'm sure most deliveries go well, but reading the fews that go bad is scary. Also i'm not sure if its only an issue with Tesla in the US or if its Tesla in general, regardless of country.
If buying from another dealership or private, i'd be losing the 1 year used car warranty..
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Moderator
Nov 28, 2018
14,234
17,968
Riverside Co. CA
Hmm don't the EU get the Iron batteries in the SR+? I heard those are not as good in the cold as the colbalt pack.

I think at this point all 2022 Model 3 (previously Standard Range + or SR+) have the LFP battery, which can be (should be) charged to 100% but is slower, and not quite as good in the cold as the NCA battery.

While i'm on the subject:
Is the general consensus that a used Tesla should be bought from Tesla directly? I've read quite a few horror stories here on the forum. I'm sure most deliveries go well, but reading the fews that go bad is scary. Also i'm not sure if its only an issue with Tesla in the US or if its Tesla in general, regardless of country.
If buying from another dealership or private, i'd be losing the 1 year used car warranty..

If I had to sum up all that I had read on this topic here, into a few sound bytes, it would be.

1. People with LR AWD / P model 3s tend to recommend LR AWD / More range.
2. People with SR+ vehicles many times say "Range is fine, save your money".
3. In both cases, the effective range has almost nothing to do with the actual range. That 190 mile trip you are talking about likely would need charging somewhere in the middle in an SR+ and may not in a LR. Whether that matters to you is personal.

New 2021s have a heat pump so may be more efficient in the cold. Used LR will have premium sound, heated seats.

Buying from tesla or not is a personal decision. You would want to check any used tesla to see max range at 100% and buying from tesla you likely are not going to get that. To check max range on a tesla using the information on the screen, see this thread:

 
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jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Moderator
Nov 28, 2018
14,234
17,968
Riverside Co. CA
Thanks for the sum up. The read about calculating the battery capacity is very interesting. From the (short) research i've done, it seems that the battery on model 3's usually degrade around 10% the first 2 years, and then not much more. Does that sound about right? I will surely read more about this.

Thats matches what I understand about the topic, in general.
 
Hello All,

This is my first time posting here, so apologies in advance if this is a repeat topic. I have done some research online on this topic, but hoping to get some actual user experiences.

I am buying my first Tesla, and I am stuck between getting the 2021 Model 3 with a Heat Pump vs. an older model without the Heat Pump. I live in Minnesota where we get some very cold weather in the months of January and February.

I can purchase a 2018 - 2020 Model 3 for significantly less than a 2021 Model. The difference is about 10K. I am wondering if this difference in Heat Pump vs. No Heat Pump provides significant enough benefits as far as range goes to justify this cost.

Can anyone provide some advice on if it's worth it to spend the extra money on the 2021 Model? (for context, I will be parking in a non-heated garage with a 110v or 120v outlet. I do have some supercharger locations that are about 5 minutes from my house, and i drive maybe 50 miles most weeks.)
 
Can anyone provide some advice on if it's worth it to spend the extra money on the 2021 Model? (for context, I will be parking in a non-heated garage with a 110v or 120v outlet. I do have some supercharger locations that are about 5 minutes from my house, and i drive maybe 50 miles most weeks.)
50 miles during the entire week? That means many hours plugged into the 120v outlet? I think for you the issue isn't heat pump vs no heat pump since the miles driven are so low, the issues would be the car being unable to charge at 120v when it's below 0F outside. But if you can top up at a supercharger once in a while it'll be okay.

If I were you I'd get the older cars that's $10k cheaper if 50 miles a week is what you'll be driving.
 
50 miles during the entire week? That means many hours plugged into the 120v outlet? I think for you the issue isn't heat pump vs no heat pump since the miles driven are so low, the issues would be the car being unable to charge at 120v when it's below 0F outside. But if you can top up at a supercharger once in a while it'll be okay.

If I were you I'd get the older cars that's $10k cheaper if 50 miles a week is what you'll be driving.
I am planning on going to Super Charger location at least once a week. It's about 5 minutes from my house. I am buying another home soon and plan on installing a better charger there.
 
Well, you'll likely be getting a 2022 Model 3 (no more SR+), not sure if made in china Model 3s have the same 272 mile LFP battery.

You're in switzerland, which can get cold (assumption here), the heat pump definitely helps. If range worries you, then 272 mile LFP is a better option because of higher efficiency (heat pump), lower degradation, higher usable range. That 2019 LR likely has under 300 miles of range at 100% capacity. My 2 model 3s both suffered more than 5% drop in battery degradation in less than a year. Let's assume 300 miles at 100% capacity, daily usable miles is 80% (if you want to minimize degradation), so that's 240 miles of actual usable range. The degradation will continue to get worse compared to the LFP battery.

To summarize, if you want premium sound, faster acceleration, then choose the LR. Otherwise, go with new LFP battery that has heated steering wheel, wireless charging, double pane window, powered trunk open/close.
 
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Do you care about acceleration? It's a night and day difference between a Standard Range + and a Long Range (I presume all wheel drive). I'm sure the difference is even bigger with the LFP battery SR+ cars. You can also buy the acceleration boost software for the LR AWD cars. Enhanced auto pilot is fine, but the only thing that's really useful is auto lane change. I think a lot of the other features are disabled in the EU, and I can tell you that even here in the USA they can be frustrating and not always useful (Navigate on Autopilot).

I have a 2019 LR AWD with acceleration boost. I originally test drove a SR+ at the time (April 2019). Back then it was about as quick as my 5.7 liter Dodge Challenger, which was pretty respectable. Then I drove the LR AWD and I was like holy crap this is way faster, and I knew I was going to burn the extra money for the power. And then I got the acceleration boost software later. AWD probably will help you since you are in Switzerland. I live in Michigan where it gets cold and snowy, but we don't have many hills.

If your Tesla store has demo vehicles, drive a Standard Range + and a LR AWD back to back. The biggest difference is the acceleration (the AWD isn't that noticeable except for straight line traction as it is biased towards RWD most of the time).
 
Well, you'll likely be getting a 2022 Model 3 (no more SR+), not sure if made in china Model 3s have the same 272 mile LFP battery.

You're in switzerland, which can get cold (assumption here), the heat pump definitely helps. If range worries you, then 272 mile LFP is a better option because of higher efficiency (heat pump), lower degradation, higher usable range. That 2019 LR likely has under 300 miles of range at 100% capacity. My 2 model 3s both suffered more than 5% drop in battery degradation in less than a year. Let's assume 300 miles at 100% capacity, daily usable miles is 80% (if you want to minimize degradation), so that's 240 miles of actual usable range. The degradation will continue to get worse compared to the LFP battery.

To summarize, if you want premium sound, faster acceleration, then choose the LR. Otherwise, go with new LFP battery that has heated steering wheel, wireless charging, double pane window, powered trunk open/close.
Realistically speaking, we have to heat the cabin from october to april/may, so basically around 6 months, with november - february being usually the coldest months.
I've seen some tests that showed the new heat pump is 3x - 4x times more efficient, which really is a lot. Sadly i haven't been able to find a video or post that actually compares the range of a LR 2019 M3 vs a 2021/2022 SR M3. It would be really interesting to see how close the real world ranged of a degraded 2019 LR is compared to a new SR, be it in the summer as well as in winter, when the heatpump can show its efficiency.


Do you care about acceleration? It's a night and day difference between a Standard Range + and a Long Range (I presume all wheel drive). I'm sure the difference is even bigger with the LFP battery SR+ cars. You can also buy the acceleration boost software for the LR AWD cars. Enhanced auto pilot is fine, but the only thing that's really useful is auto lane change. I think a lot of the other features are disabled in the EU, and I can tell you that even here in the USA they can be frustrating and not always useful (Navigate on Autopilot).

I have a 2019 LR AWD with acceleration boost. I originally test drove a SR+ at the time (April 2019). Back then it was about as quick as my 5.7 liter Dodge Challenger, which was pretty respectable. Then I drove the LR AWD and I was like holy crap this is way faster, and I knew I was going to burn the extra money for the power. And then I got the acceleration boost software later. AWD probably will help you since you are in Switzerland. I live in Michigan where it gets cold and snowy, but we don't have many hills.

If your Tesla store has demo vehicles, drive a Standard Range + and a LR AWD back to back. The biggest difference is the acceleration (the AWD isn't that noticeable except for straight line traction as it is biased towards RWD most of the time).
That's hard to answer. As you suggested, i'd have to drive the SR and LR version and then decide how much i care about the acceleration.
I don't really care about EAP. Its just nice to have because i'm assuming it will retain the cars value a bit more. What i really care about is the base autopilot (so staying in lane, taking curves, slowing down etc.)

I'm still really torn. It would be really nice to have the extra speakers in the car, considering i always listen to music. The amazing acceleration and technically more range are really great as well.

That being said, as i described above, we drive around for a good 5-6 months with the heater on here in switzerland, so if the heat pump is really 3-4 times as efficient, then this could possibly mean that in winter months i'd have more range with a 2021 SR than with a 2019 LR.
An actual range test with a 2019 LR & 2021 SR would be really great to see, sadly i haven't found one.
 
So i've done quite some more research (and by that i mean youtube videos), and i've come up with these numbers:

2021 SR Model 3 Summer, AC on, low mileage
  • Around 380km (240mi) driven at 90km/h (55mp/h) on a highway
  • Around 280km (175mi) driven at 120km/h (75mp/h) on a highway
2021 SR Model 3 Winter, heating on, low mileage
  • Around 280km (175mi) driven at 90km/h (55mp/h) on a highway
2019 LR OR Performance Model 3 Summer, AC on, 12-15k miles
  • Around 480km (300mi) driven at 90km/h (55mp/h) on a highway
  • Around 410km (255mi) driven at 120km/h (75mp/h) on a highway
2019 LR OR Performance Model 3 Winter, heating on, 12-15k miles
  • Around 320km (200mi) driven between 90km/h (55mp/h) - 120km/h (75mp/h) on mixed routes. This was an average on a 2000+ miles road trip.

So, i have no idea how accurate these really are. Different tires, amount of passengers etc. But generally the 2019 models should have lost their 10% of battery degradation, and from my understanding degrade at a much lower pace, so these figures should probably be close to "true" if i were to buy a 2019 LR with similar mileage today.
When driven conservative, the range on both models is amazing. When driven slightly faster, it seems that the LR has the advantage in terms of efficiency.
In the winter we can see that the heat pump of the new models makes quite the difference, and the 2019 doesn't have that much more range.

Again, i have gathered this data from multiple sources, videos etc, so there can be some small or even big differences between the drives. Cabin temperature, tires etc. etc. Take these numbers with a grain of salt.
If someone with more experience thinks that some of the numbers are unrealistic, please do let me know as this will play a huge role in which version i will end up choosing.


Thanks so much
 
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IF you are interested in efficiency in winter, here's my TeslaFi graph after two years owning a 2020 LR AWD (thus without a heat pump) in Quebec City, Canada:
1638916093712.png


I don't have enough data on both ends, I don't drive that much. This is based on a sold range of 512km with some degradation, so now probably around 470km at 100%SOC. This table shows I would get around 375km in the summer and around 260km in the winter. I drive at 120-122kph on the highway, somewhat over the limit on slower roads, I use real winter tires and use high performance all seasons in the summer, I'm not careful on accelerations, I have the boost.
 
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@GtiMart

Thanks for the graph. Very interesting data. Your driving style sounds quite similar to mine. 370km of range with that sounds pretty good to me.
260km in winter does sound a bit less than what i was imagining to get, but still really manageable in terms of every day use and loading i guess. If i understand the graph correctly, that would be between -5c and -10c?
If you have a good charging infrastructure where you live, the long range matters less. I'm telling you, the power difference is huge. Don't buy a SR+ without driving a LR AWD first.

Charging infrastructure is great in most parts of switzerland. There's 20+ superchargers listend on Teslas website, if counting the "coming soon" then even 30. That might not sound like much, but switzerland is quite the small country. Add to that the destination chargers and "general type 2" chargers owned by other companies, and its safe to say that we have a very dense charging infrastructure. I'll attach a small picture just to give an idea. Keep in mind that these maps are never complete, so there's likely even more chargers that aren't displayed here.
I will surely test drive both before deciding which one to get.
1638999192016.png
 
Roughly speaking yes, at -5, -10 and lower I expect close to 50% efficiency, so I divide that 470 by 2. That graph is based on 10km drives so there are short ones in there. If I change the graph to account for only 50km+ drives (which would be mostly highway) it goes to 60% efficiency but I don't have a lot of kms driven so it's difficult to trust as much. I'd say somewhere between 50 and 60% efficiency is a good lower bound. It's plenty enough to drive on the highway if there are superchargers. You're in Europe so you get the CCS2 port, which means you can charge everywhere without an adapter right? I wouldn't worry about range. In normal city driving you'll never run out.
 
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I'm not really worried about running out of charge on any normal day. I can charge at work, i can charge at home, i can charge pretty much everywhere i go thanks to the dense charging infrastructure. In that regards, an SR would also be enough. I'm more "worried" about road trips or similar. A place i go to regularly (4-5 times a year maybe) is around 150km (around 95mi) away, so roundtrip 300km. I'd really like to make that without having to charge. In the summer i reckon this should be possible with the LR as well as the SR. From looking at your graph and the other research i've done, i'm assuming this should also be possible in the Winter with a LR and a somewhat "lighter" driving style.
When you say this data is based on mostly 10km drives, does this also mean that most of these drives were done on cold battery? My understanding is that there's quite some impact on range when the battery is not preheated, so longer drives on highway or preheating the battery should yield way better results. Please correct me if i'm wrong.

I'm not that familiar with fast charging ports yet. I'm currently driving a plugin in hybrid so i'm only using a type2. I regularly see CCS2 ports at charging stations, so i think i should be able to charger there without an adapter. Does the US/Canada Model 3 or charging infrastructure not allow for that?
 

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