CA Residents - this car costs $2,500 MORE after 3/31/16

[MBTesLosAngeles]

Given that relative to the price of the car, $2,500 is not a fortune, but after spending $140K and being promised a car by 1st quarter 2016, I don't want to spend an extra $2,500 due to Tesla's mishaps. More so - I don't want to spend an extra $2,500 due to high VINs and non Performance models being delivered before me when I waited 3 years and opted for a fully optioned car (in order to expedite the process).

I'll bail post 3/31, which instead of a $5,000 hit is actually a $2,500 hit if you adjust for the tax credit expiring and wait a few more months to get a gently used on or factory model and save some $$ on the back end.

Sorry but I am high VIN of a performance model and FRUSTRATED. Anyone else feeling the same? Kind of "over it" at this point.

 

[pchan]

Well, it has already happened in Massachusetts last month ... $2500 rebate decrease to -> $1000 rebate. :frown:

Quoted from Eligible Vehicles List | MOR-EV

PLEASE NOTE: Effective February 29, 2016, eligible battery electric vehicles, fuel cell electric vehicles, and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles with a base MSRP greater than or equal to $60,000 will be eligible for a rebate of $1,000 per vehicle. These vehicles will no longer be eligible for the previous rebate amounts of $1,500 or $2,500. All qualified rebate applications submitted on or after February 29, 2016 will be affected.
The following vehicles will be affected by this change:

• BMW i8
• BMW X5 XDrive40e
• Cadillac ELR
• Tesla Model S
• Tesla Model X
• Porsche 918 Spyder
• Porsche Cayenne S E-Hybrid
• Porsche Panamera S E-Hybrid
• Volvo XC90 T8

Given that relative to the price of the car, $2,500 is not a fortune, but after spending $140K and being promised a car by 1st quarter 2016, I don't want to spend an extra $2,500 due to Tesla's mishaps. More so - I don't want to spend an extra $2,500 due to high VINs and non Performance models being delivered before me when I waited 3 years and opted for a fully optioned car (in order to expedite the process).

I'll bail post 3/31, which instead of a $5,000 hit is actually a $2,500 hit if you adjust for the tax credit expiring and wait a few more months to get a gently used on or factory model and save some $$ on the back end.

Sorry but I am high VIN of a performance model and FRUSTRATED. Anyone else feeling the same? Kind of "over it" at this point.

 

[MonsterCarter]

While this will affect a large number of Californians, the rebate is only going away for people that fall outside of the guidelines below.

Income Cap for Higher-Income Consumers
The income cap for higher-income consumers is set at the same income thresholds established in Proposition 30, a ballot initiative approved by California voters in 2012. Consumers will not be eligible for CVRP rebates if their gross annual incomes are above the following thresholds:

• $250,000 for single filers
• $340,000 for head-of-household filers
• $500,000 for joint filers

Fiscal Year 2015-16 Income Limit Changes | Clean Vehicle Rebate Project

 

[pvogel]

Given that relative to the price of the car, $2,500 is not a fortune, but after spending $140K and being promised a car by 1st quarter 2016, I don't want to spend an extra $2,500 due to Tesla's mishaps. More so - I don't want to spend an extra $2,500 due to high VINs and non Performance models being delivered before me when I waited 3 years and opted for a fully optioned car (in order to expedite the process).

I'll bail post 3/31, which instead of a $5,000 hit is actually a $2,500 hit if you adjust for the tax credit expiring and wait a few more months to get a gently used on or factory model and save some $$ on the back end.

Sorry but I am high VIN of a performance model and FRUSTRATED. Anyone else feeling the same? Kind of "over it" at this point.

What matters for the CA rebate is your ORDER date, so as long as your order confirms before 3/31 you are still getting the $2500 rebate

 

[Blastphemy]

What matters for the CA rebate is your ORDER date, so as long as your order confirms before 3/31 you are still getting the $2500 rebate

Where is your proof for that? In the past, CARB has required an executed, paid lease or purchase agreement as the determining factor for timing and eligibility. If you can find documentation that supports your assertion, you will make a lot of California Model X reservation holders very happy.

 

[ohmman]

What matters for the CA rebate is your ORDER date, so as long as your order confirms before 3/31 you are still getting the $2500 rebate

^^ This.

I'll refrain from addressing the broader complaint, since this means you don't have to "bail."

- - - Updated - - -

Where is your proof for that? In the past, CARB has required an executed, paid lease or purchase agreement as the determining factor for timing and eligibility. If you can find documentation that supports your assertion, you will make a lot of California Model X reservation holders very happy.

My Tesla Model S Purchase Agreement was dated as of the time I confirmed my order online. Those who have taken delivery of their Model X state that it is the same with their vehicle. Therefore, you will have a Purchase Agreement (per the CARB terms) which has the date of your order confirmation.

 

[MBTesLosAngeles]

^^ This.

I'll refrain from addressing the broader complaint, since this means you don't have to "bail."

- - - Updated - - -



My Tesla Model S Purchase Agreement was dated as of the time I confirmed my order online. Those who have taken delivery of their Model X state that it is the same with their vehicle. Therefore, you will have a Purchase Agreement (per the CARB terms) which has the date of your order confirmation.

Would love for you to address the boarder compliant bc I don't see how this makes sense (I know it's not supposed to). Lower vins and people that have waited years are being surpassed by people who ordered a few months ago and w/o Performance models. I should have gotten a 90D if I knew I would have gotten it sooner than my P90D. MOREOVER, i should have kept my $5k in a a money market account over the past 3 years instead of giving it to Tesla in good faith - result would have been the same.

My DS seems useless, haven't heard anything from her and not in the state of mind to call and pretend to be polite. So how am I getting my car before 1Q16 ends? Not even in production so.... still pissed.

 

[Skotty]

Most states like mine offer no incentive at all. $0 --> $0. Also, since I'm buying CPO, I don't get the federal tax credit of $7500. Did I just take a $12,500 hit? It's unfortunate should one lose out on a tax credit or other incentive, but you might want to contain your outrage a little considering how many folks receive even less.

Now if you just want to complain about Tesla's build order, fire away.

 

[ohmman]

Would love for you to address the boarder compliant bc I don't see how this makes sense (I know it's not supposed to). Lower vins and people that have waited years are being surpassed by people who ordered a few months ago and w/o Performance models. I should have gotten a 90D if I knew I would have gotten it sooner than my P90D. MOREOVER, i should have kept my $5k in a a money market account over the past 3 years instead of giving it to Tesla in good faith - result would have been the same.

I can't and won't defend Tesla's build order, scheduling dysfunction, etc. There are a few who would, but I'm definitely not one of them. There are Signatures who haven't taken delivery, despite having put down $40k years ago to be some of the first in line. This wasn't supposed to happen again this time around. I find it very disappointing, and the only reasonable thing I can think that causes it is the fact that Tesla is publicly traded and they can't wait to get all of the earlier orders perfect - they have to keep the line moving.

I'm sympathetic to your frustration, but I don't think you can blame a $2500 incentive that's intended for those on the fence about EVs. That was all I was saying.

 

[Marcos]

Would love for you to address the boarder compliant bc I don't see how this makes sense (I know it's not supposed to). Lower vins and people that have waited years are being surpassed by people who ordered a few months ago and w/o Performance models. I should have gotten a 90D if I knew I would have gotten it sooner than my P90D.

I haven't seen any 90Ds delivered at all, so did I miss something? I think it's been well established that VIN numbers don't equal delivery order.

You might have a gripe down the line if this bears out, but that doesn't seem to have happened yet.

 

[CTemp222]

I haven't seen any 90Ds delivered at all, so did I miss something? I think it's been well established that VIN numbers don't equal delivery order.

You might have a gripe down the line if this bears out, but that doesn't seem to have happened yet.

Many 90D's have been told that they will take delivery before 3/31

 

[roblab]

My DS seems useless, haven't heard anything from her and not in the state of mind to call and pretend to be polite. So how am I getting my car before 1Q16 ends? Not even in production so.... still pissed.

Why would you pretend to be polite? You know that no one here on this forum can do anything for you, yet you would rather post here and stir up hate and discontent, it seems, than to contact Tesla.

You don't have to contact your DS, either. You have a phone number for TESLA. Call it.

When I complained, I complained to Tesla. They had my problem solved in hours. Nothing happens if you don't call.

 

[Redshift]

Where is your proof for that? In the past, CARB has required an executed, paid lease or purchase agreement as the determining factor for timing and eligibility. If you can find documentation that supports your assertion, you will make a lot of California Model X reservation holders very happy.

I'm in California and asked my DS about this. She said the order date (confirmation date) was the one that counted.

 

[flar]

Have they announced the implementation date for this? The latest press release says that it is "anticipated" for March (ARB says mid-March, CVRP says late-March) and that the actual date would be pre-announced on the ARB and CVRP sites at least 2 weeks prior. There are more than 2 weeks before the end of March so it still could be in place before the end of March, but I'm just wondering if an official date was announced and I missed it.

I believe I've seen Tesla juggle some mountains to try to get cars (or at least finalized sales contracts) to customers before tax deadlines in prior instances so a call to your DS would help, both now when it appears that the policy will change soon so you can discuss the options, and especially once the 2 week announcement occurs. It would be best to start the discussion now so that you have the flexibility to act when the policy date is concrete...

 

[Darryl]

I'm in California and asked my DS about this. She said the order date (confirmation date) was the one that counted.

Why would you ask your DS? You should be asking the state and get something in writing.

 

[ohmman]

Why would you ask your DS? You should be asking the state and get something in writing.

Very true, but I will give you this detail. First, from my purchase order of my Model S - delivery in March 2014. Ordered in February as you see here.

Next, from CARB's website about the rebate eligibility.

So as you can see, your date is the electronic acceptance date, not the delivery date. Hope this is helpful.

 

[Mike_F]

Very true, but I will give you this detail. First, from my purchase order of my Model S - delivery in March 2014. Ordered in February as you see here.

View attachment 114534

Next, from CARB's website about the rebate eligibility.

View attachment 114535

So as you can see, your date is the electronic acceptance date, not the delivery date. Hope this is helpful.

If you rely on the "Purchase Agreement" on your status page, don't be surprised if your request for the rebate is rejected. A purchase is defined as when you actually "purchase" your car which means you have actually paid for it (either cash or financed). You are also missing the requirement that the purchase agreement be "signed" which does not happen until you actually take delivery. Until that happens, all that exists is a promise to purchase and thats all which the CARB will bounce. In any case, if someone that thinks they can afford $150K for a car is worried about $2500 then they should think again and consider a car they can really afford like a Leaf or Bolt. For example, consider this scenario, you send the CARB your "purchase agreement", then you decide after all you don't want the car. Are you still eligible for the rebate?

 

[ohmman]

For example, consider this scenario, you send the CARB your "purchase agreement", then you decide after all you don't want the car. Are you still eligible for the rebate?

Your other points are well taken, and agreed. I'm glad it's being phased out. However, this last point doesn't compute. You also have to keep the car for 30 months. So yeah, there are requirements you have to maintain. If you submit the agreement but don't take the car, you're in breach. If you do buy the car, but sell it after 2 years, you have to return the money as well. How is that different?

 

[Colby Boles]

My DS is also claiming that it is only the Purchase Agreement we have already signed that matters, but I'm skeptical like Mike_F, since at this point I could still bail and only be out $5k, not the full purchase price of the car. The Purchase Agreement doesn't seem to be a binding promise like a business PO might be. It seems more like a LOI with a forfeitable $5k deposit.

If you rely on the "Purchase Agreement" on your status page, don't be surprised if your request for the rebate is rejected. A purchase is defined as when you actually "purchase" your car which means you have actually paid for it (either cash or financed). You are also missing the requirement that the purchase agreement be "signed" which does not happen until you actually take delivery. Until that happens, all that exists is a promise to purchase and thats all which the CARB will bounce. In any case, if someone that thinks they can afford $150K for a car is worried about $2500 then they should think again and consider a car they can really afford like a Leaf or Bolt. For example, consider this scenario, you send the CARB your "purchase agreement", then you decide after all you don't want the car. Are you still eligible for the rebate?

 

[Mike_F]

Your other points are well taken, and agreed. I'm glad it's being phased out. However, this last point doesn't compute. You also have to keep the car for 30 months. So yeah, there are requirements you have to maintain. If you submit the agreement but don't take the car, you're in breach. If you do buy the car, but sell it after 2 years, you have to return the money as well. How is that different?

The point of the example is that no money has changed hands so there is no purchase. Submitting the "Purchase Agreement" does not constitute a purchase only a promise to purchase (backed by your now non-refundable deposit). The only way that you would be eligible for the rebate is you actually hand over the money and take delivery (that is when you sign all the requisite paperwork, this will be my fourth purchase so I know the drill) and then submit the signed purchased agreement showing that you have indeed purchased the car (either cash or finance, not sure about lease since the car is not yours).

Just a heads up, if the DS cannot get your delivery correct, how do you expect them to give good legal advice.