somnambule
Member
Am I the only one who thinks the article is wrong in saying Supercruise is Level 3? I'm pretty sure the driver still needs to be paying attention at all times.
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Any system that prompts to make sure the driver is paying attention is a Level 2 system.
There are some arguments that a Level 3 might check somehow to make sure you're awake in case it needs to hand over, but by definition you don't have to pay attention.
The text explicitly pointed out that you have to dodge road debris and change lanes manually - there's no way this is a Level 3 system.
larmor
Active Member
Tesla is likely testing internally a far better system than is released. Currently only using two of the cameras... hmm... Another head scratcher: i got a loaner P85D some time ago, and it's nav got it that i was in the HOV lane, including NAV voice directions saying "stay in hov lane", and my current nav only rarely acknowledges i'm in the HOV lane, let alone provides voice directions stating the word hov. Also, when parked at home, location registers one house over, but this was not the case for the first few months of ownership...
Wild speculation (because that's what we do on the internet): map and nav update coming and paired with parsed driving data-video and nav logs will be beyond silky smooth.
Cadillac-- good job, but appears reactive...
Wild speculation (because that's what we do on the internet): map and nav update coming and paired with parsed driving data-video and nav logs will be beyond silky smooth.
Cadillac-- good job, but appears reactive...
GM specifically labels the system as 'no comment' level. Specifically, they say your typical buyer has no idea what an SAE level is, so we will just tell them what it does and cannot do, both through unambiguous alert systems, and instruction manual.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
First testing for the press was in April 2012. Watch Cadillac's new semi-autonomous Super Cruise in action
Yeah, and imagine if GM put this SuperDuperCruise on the Bolt, lowered the price $5,000, installed a nationwide fast charge network, sold 2x as many as they do now... then they would actually be where Tesla was 2 years ago.
Go GM !
RT
P.S. No need to imagine Model 3 demand, 455,000 orders waiting to be cranked out.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
No, you are not. Supercruise is definitely level 2 only. GM is very clear you must pay attention and everything about the system is there to ensure you are paying attention (only a 15 second nag window).
Level 3 does not have a specified nag window, but rather an early warning time. You can potentially not be paying attention for hours and the car would not nag you.
It depends on how you interpret the system goal. Safety or convenience. Has auto lane change ever threatened a motorcycle or made a mistake? No idea what the visualization system is yet. It certainly can detect 360° threats as of 2016 and vibrates the seat. The AEB even works in reverse.
It's supposedly speed sensitive from 20 seconds to 5? seconds.
You do not have to operate the vehicle when the Super Cruise is active. At all. You can be day dreaming. When the system is hot, it will do all the steering and braking with no human input. Hence allows idiot texters to survive.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Auto lane change is always driver initiated and the car does extra checks before even allowing it. So theoretically it should be as safe or even more safe than regular lane changes.
From the article, it uses a simple ACC visualization, not the more advanced ones seen in most L2 cars that can tell you about vehicles in adjacent lanes, as well as detected lane curvature:
"One Tesla feature Cadillac is missing is the display indicating the actual path of the upcoming roadway with icons indicating car or truck traffic in the nearby lanes. The only display option is the typical adaptive cruise one with straight lane markers and a Cadillac CT6 rear end displayed when a vehicle is sensed ahead."
We don't know, because auto lane change isn't in the wild yet. If a driver of an AP car decided to make a lane change at the wrong time, that's driver error, not a system fault.
I'm confused by your other comment, too - the text I read specifically said that the car only provided a typical adaptive cruise display, showing only straight lines and when appropriate the back of another CT6 in front.
Yeah, and imagine if GM put this SuperDuperCruise on the Bolt, lowered the price $5,000, installed a nationwide fast charge network, sold 2x as many as they do now... then they would actually be where Tesla was 2 years ago.
Go GM !
RT
P.S. No need to imagine Model 3 demand, 455,000 orders waiting to be cranked out.
You do understand that the CT6 is $90,000 before Super Cruise, correct? And it does have a global quick charging network?
Well, it will probably still have the icons on the mirrors. No idea what the HUD will show. And the dash config is programmable. Some of the system is seat vibration, some is steering wheel lights, some is sound, and some is visual. Our's is only a 2016 so I have no idea.
But what is most important is how the user perceives it. That I have not a clue. The real info on the system is going to have to come from real owners, not the press or GM when it comes to how well it really works. Sort of like the crappy thermal night vision on German cars. It looks good in a brochure, but sucks on the road. The Caddy system is very good IMO. Blinded by headlights on a dark twisty road with no guardrail? No problem.
So how is this better than (or even equal to) autopilot? Don't get me wrong... It seems like a solid system albeit with a different hardware approach but with the 15 second nag it's basically equal to Mercedes's system on the S550 from 2014. The current E class would best this and Autopilot would best it by far.
Not to mention I'm personally a fan of onboard hardware that's capable of assessing current surroundings and reacting to them versus a "dumber" system that requires accessing a database of lidar data for accuracy. In that respect I think GM's system is handicapped when compared to Autopilot and whatever Mercedes calls their system. I think it's drive pilot or something like that.
Not to mention I'm personally a fan of onboard hardware that's capable of assessing current surroundings and reacting to them versus a "dumber" system that requires accessing a database of lidar data for accuracy. In that respect I think GM's system is handicapped when compared to Autopilot and whatever Mercedes calls their system. I think it's drive pilot or something like that.
This is level 3 packaged in a way that is acceptable to GM senior management after extensive review by GM attorneys.
The only reason GM management agreed to any system that allows eye to leave the road is extreme pressure to advance in automation. Putting it in a $90K caddy is a great way to not sell too many while they see how the system works in the real world.
I'm fairly confident that this system is mostly next generation mobileye. It should be good.
The only reason GM management agreed to any system that allows eye to leave the road is extreme pressure to advance in automation. Putting it in a $90K caddy is a great way to not sell too many while they see how the system works in the real world.
I'm fairly confident that this system is mostly next generation mobileye. It should be good.
I view this news as a positive -
1). More competition in the AP space.
2). Leaving out the eye watching stuff, their on board sensor suite appears to be similar to Tesla. Sure they have premapped with LIDAR, but Tesla could still do that if it were found to be somehow necessary.
Tesla is working on the mapping differently, but it shows the results can improve (if we take this review as being improved AP performance).
1). More competition in the AP space.
2). Leaving out the eye watching stuff, their on board sensor suite appears to be similar to Tesla. Sure they have premapped with LIDAR, but Tesla could still do that if it were found to be somehow necessary.
Tesla is working on the mapping differently, but it shows the results can improve (if we take this review as being improved AP performance).
I suppose nag timing could be a proxy for the manufacturer's confidence in their system (adjusted for their fear of lawsuits/bad publicity,) but it's not the first factor I would use to rate AP systems (lane holding and following competence would be my priorities.)
I'm not sure we have that much information to rate it well yet. With the fancy premade maps I'm expecting Supercruise to have remarkable lane holding as long as it has map tiles and a solid lock on where it is. No idea how it'll do on following cars.
I haven't seen any reason to believe it's better than the current state of Autopilot, but I suspect is the best competitor for now, despite the tight nag timing.
Hopefully we'll learn a lot more about it soon.
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On AP1 I have to verify the lane is clear myself before initiating an auto lane change per the manual. So, its sort of auto.
Does AP2 have further capabilities with this over AP1? I am too chicken to test it with the AP 2 loaner I have
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