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Calling P85D owners world-wide for survey and complaint letter
- Thread starter kseitzberg
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I didn't notice the wording at the first go, but it says "from a standstill not with rollout". However, the 0-60mph with 1-foot rollout is also done at a standstill, just with the 1-foot subtracted. I just had to clarify some confusion over this:
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...-it-Up-to-691HP/page138?p=1140166#post1140166
And from another post, actually looking back, Motor Trend said when they tested the McLaren F1 the 3.2 that they got was also measured with 1-foot rollout subtracted:
"the Tesla punches the clock at 3.1 seconds, a tenth quicker than the Audi (as well as the McLaren F1's accepted time -- all of these after subtracting the customary 1-foot rollout)."
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/alternative/1411_2015_tesla_model_s_p85d_first_test/
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But Motor Trend never tested the McLaren F1, so they can't really comment on weather that was with rollout.
I know what you are saying about the rollout and standstill, but I think in this case the meaning is without rollout subtracted, as one who is not educated into the specifics about rollout would understand rollout as not from a standstill.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Except they did (or at least the author did, he was previously at Road and Track also, so it might not be from Motor Trend) from the same article:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/alternative/1411_2015_tesla_model_s_p85d_first_test/
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This is the original article from Road and Track. It reads as a first drive, not a test, they do not even mention the 3.2s 0-60 mph. So still do not believe the rollout claim, although I understand why you would think it based on the Motor Trend article.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...tests-first-drives-flashback-1994-mclaren-f1/
No 0-60 times, but McLaren F1 testing, worth watching
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bziUYnN8Mg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCpCbZaD8xc
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If Tesla prominently made claim about matching the performance of McLaren F1 was not true, I am quite sure that we would hear from McLaren by now. It is clear, both from what was posted by Stopcrazypp and from McLaren's silence on the subject, that their 3.2 sec time was with rollout and a Tesla claim is true.
By extension, it becomes clear why Tesla switched to 0 to 60 time with a rollout while marketing P85D. Their main claim was matching the F1 performance, which was 3.2s, so, in order to compare apples to apples they switched to the rollout adjusted time.
This is pretty much kills the claim of Tesla not meeting the advertised 0 to 60 time, or intentionally trying to mislead on the acceleration
This is pretty much kills the claim of Tesla not meeting the advertised 0 to 60 time, or intentionally trying to mislead on the acceleration
Again - please read the thread and you will see a mail correspondance with McLaren stating that they did not use rollout.
And if you read Stopcrazyapp reference, it is clear that they did never do a 0-60 mph test of the F1, so claiming rollout is very undocumented, compared with the e-mail from McLaren saying no rollout was used.
Well no, when the F1 is without rollout as per McLaren e-mail, it just further confirms the claim
And even what you write was true, it would not change the fact that Teslas marketing was/is/could be misleading - which Tesla apparantly agrees with since they felt the need to add the disclaimer.
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Bingo.
I guess there is very little I can ad to the thread at this point of time that the carefull readers has not already read. I guess my conclusion this far is that some support our claims and some dont.
I love all the points of view that has been put forward by everyone in this forum. It is almost like a having the devils advocate sitting in the corner comming with counter arguments and for me it has firmed up our claims.
Some love the P85D they have got and i am happy for them, some are not so happy with the P85D compared to what was advetised and we now will seek to speed up the process to close the issues and move on.
All for now.
Torben_E
I guess there is very little I can ad to the thread at this point of time that the carefull readers has not already read. I guess my conclusion this far is that some support our claims and some dont.
I love all the points of view that has been put forward by everyone in this forum. It is almost like a having the devils advocate sitting in the corner comming with counter arguments and for me it has firmed up our claims.
Some love the P85D they have got and i am happy for them, some are not so happy with the P85D compared to what was advetised and we now will seek to speed up the process to close the issues and move on.
All for now.
Torben_E
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JohnSnowNW
Active Member
Actually, what I'm seeing here is more speculation, and people taking McLaren at their word (on a vehicle from the mid-90's), while disregarding Tesla's.
Seems a bit selective, IMHO.
Yes, JohnSnowNW beat me to it.
There seem to be some selective use of information. Once again, we have an automotive magazine information indicating that 3.2s time for F1 was indeed with a rollout, as well as no public comment from McLaren regarding the ostensibly wrong information about their legendary car and this is somehow brushed aside with a celebratory "Bingo!" ( I would think that owners who were so wronged by Tesla would be somewhat unhappy with the whole situation), while an email from a McLaren current employee is taken as a gospel.
Anyhow, I've emailed to McLaren as well, and will share the response, whatever it is.
let's facts to be known, whatever they are.
There seem to be some selective use of information. Once again, we have an automotive magazine information indicating that 3.2s time for F1 was indeed with a rollout, as well as no public comment from McLaren regarding the ostensibly wrong information about their legendary car and this is somehow brushed aside with a celebratory "Bingo!" ( I would think that owners who were so wronged by Tesla would be somewhat unhappy with the whole situation), while an email from a McLaren current employee is taken as a gospel.
Anyhow, I've emailed to McLaren as well, and will share the response, whatever it is.
let's facts to be known, whatever they are.
I understand why you could come to that conclusion. Actually I'm taking both Tesla and McLaren at their word.
McLaren says they DID NOT use 1 foot rollout
Tesla says they DO use 1 foot rollout on the P85D and the P90D.
Neither of them are saying anything about each others cars or methods.
So, if we are to take them both at their word, a P85D does not accelerate as quick as a McLaren F1 from 0 - 60 mph.
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I think it's good of you to e-mail McLaren, to clarify their earlier e-mail. I do not have the contact info for Motor Trend, but maybe you could e-mail them as well, as they are the ones 'indicating' the rollout. They may have some documentation to backup that indication. That would help settle this.
It will have no bearring on the misleading marketing regarding the acceleration times, but it will help settle if it is as quick as a McLaren F1
Tesla actually says that they use 1 foot rollout *and* that they match the 0 to 60 time of the F1.
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That what I was planning to do, once I land back in U.S. ( my plane it taking off from Madrid in a few minutes)
Safe flight
Actually Tesla never said that in the same sentence, as the 1 foot rollout disclaimer was only published a few days ago and the F1 claim was 11 months ago. If you find the time to e-mail Tesla regarding this, I think you are going to have a hard time getting those two claims in the same sentence.
