Canadian Superchargers

[ecodrive]

...and also to bug them about another SC between Toronto and Kingston.
We can't let them think they are done in this area, it's a 235km gap!!!

TOTALLY! I second the motion on that notion - and then underline and bold it again!
The distance of that gap, as long as left unfilled, is ~ *twice* what it is between most US SCs -- even as there's not even Canadian winter cold down there. Opportunities for convenient SCs abound from Belleville to Cobourg or Port Hope etc etc.

 

[catnip]

You are kidding me right??? Geez I would fume... Did you say anything to them? What are the rules when that happens? Right to ask for towing?[/QUOTE]

Pending on the situation, daytime & other Tesla driver around. I would back up right in front of his ICE to charge, but be sure to take a picture of his license.
It appeared there are lots of empty space in the area where he can parked.

 

[PoweredByRain]

TOTALLY! I second the motion on that notion - and then underline and bold it again!
The distance of that gap, as long as left unfilled, is ~ *twice* what it is between most US SCs

What? 235 km is not an unusual spacing. Maybe you're confusing miles and kilometres?

Similar spacing (picking ones I know):
Burlington to Centralia: 240 km
Harris Ranch to Vacaville: 331 km (they do plan another one here)
Barstow to Las Vegas: 253 km
Cheyenne to Lusk: 239 km
Lusk to Rapid City: 240 km
Rapid City to Murdo: 220 km
Murdo to Mitchell: 225 km
(Lots more, I'm not going to enter a lot more names in Google maps...)

Now if by "US" you mean Chicagoland, New Jersey, Florida and parts of California, well then I'd agree...

The only places in the U.S. where Superchargers are closer than that is places where routes cross, or in mountainous regions, or dense metropolitan regions (e.g. "Chicagoland")

I can't imagine how you would be unable to make it 235 km, winter or not. In inclement weather you may want to charge a long time to span the gap, but it's perfectly possible to do it in an 85. In a 60, well... if it's -20 and snowing, drive slowly, and for sure start with a full charge and pre-heated cabin!


UPDATE: I entered Toronto SC to Kingston into Google maps - it's actually closer to 250 km, not the 235 km quoted in the comments above. I'm more inclined to agree that this is a bit far for "never have to think about it" comfort. Still - if it's close to being an issue, just SLOW DOWN. Problem solved. Consumption at 100 km/h is about 180 Wh/km, from experience. Add in the load for heating and greater losses for snow, yes, but... 250 km is still not a problem in an 85.

 

[hingisfan]

UPDATE: I entered Toronto SC to Kingston into Google maps - it's actually closer to 250 km, not the 235 km quoted in the comments above. I'm more inclined to agree that this is a bit far for "never have to think about it" comfort. Still - if it's close to being an issue, just SLOW DOWN. Problem solved. Consumption at 100 km/h is about 180 Wh/km, from experience. Add in the load for heating and greater losses for snow, yes, but... 250 km is still not a problem in an 85.

And....what if you own a 60??????

 

[Depeche Mode]

And....what if you own a 60??????

don't own a '60 but

+1

Some people here doesn't seem to understand how IMPORTANT Kingston SC is for us all...

Kingston should have been the first East SC built...

 

[ecodrive]

What? 235 km is not an unusual spacing. Maybe you're confusing miles and kilometres? Now if by "US" you mean Chicagoland, New Jersey, Florida and parts of California, well then I'd agree...
...
UPDATE: I entered Toronto SC to Kingston into Google maps - it's actually closer to 250 km, not the 235 km quoted in the comments above. I'm more inclined to agree that this is a bit far for "never have to think about it" comfort. ...250 km is still not a problem in an 85.

Glad you re-thought it a bit and partly realized your initial conclusion was not so great and corrected it.

Still, I feel you're adding unhelpful confusion and a serious disservice to Canadian Tesla owners who live thousands of miles east of your own location.

It's inappropriate to ignore the important cold reality that the Toronto and S. Ontario area has among the very densest of all daily traffic volumes anywhere in N. America.
Meantime, in contrast, an unfilled Kingston-Toronto SC gap would be among the largest SC gaps anywhere in the US (or Germany or Norway), and certainly unlike anything around any place with anything like its traffic volume.

Take just one glance at supercharge.info at many/most current SC routes in the warmer US (look at thru Colorado, up the US west cost, up the US east cost, Washington to Chicago).
Obviously, ALL of these have ~regularly placed SCs clearly more closely spaced on average than what an unfilled Toronto-Kingston spacing would be.
And likewise for Germany (yes, Autobahn speeds) and for S. Norway (yes, cold) <-- you can see Europe by panning the map across the Atlantic.

When you're "powered by electricity" (and not just by rain (<--just for fun)), it's unreasonable to compare Toronto-Kingston-Montreal to the most remote of all US routes you can possibly find...
like maybe across S. Dakota -- where the SC spacing is STILL a tad better than unfilled Toronto-Kingston.

My pragmatic and constructive thought for us (and for Tesla) tries to be based on something like a realistic assessment of present and near-term need, not on trying to imagine or claim how low we can stoop to poor circumstances:
- (a) let's not just ignore those with an S60 or the future Model 3,
- (b) let's not ignore the Cdn. temp. factor (anywhere east of Vancouver Island), and
- (c) let's not have excessive Canadian humility that gladly accepts a barely-acceptable solution that's less than what's standard elsewhere and that may work for some under near-ideal circumstances.
(Yes, clearly we need critically important Kingston first...)

 

[green1]

(Yes, clearly we need critically important Kingston first...)

I'm not going to deny that Kingston is needed, but I think "first" is disingenuous. We don't know what's happening behind the scenes, and we don't know that they can only work on one SC at a time. If they're working hard on permitting that site, I don't want them to ignore doing construction on a different one that already has permits just so that Kingston can be "first".

Point is, they need to work on ALL the Canadian SuperChargers, as long as they are working on them, the order isn't nearly as important, and I don't want them slowing any of them down to change what order things open in.

(As to comparisons to ANY other country selling the Model S... just don't, Canada has the worst Supercharger network of any Tesla country, and even the projected map by the end of 2015 is an insult in comparison to all other Tesla countries)

 

[ecodrive]

Point is, they need to work on ALL the Canadian SuperChargers, as long as they are working on them, the order isn't nearly as important, and I don't want them slowing any of them down to change what order things open in.
(As to comparisons to ANY other country selling the Model S... just don't, Canada has the worst Supercharger network of any Tesla country, and even the projected map by the end of 2015 is an insult in comparison to all other Tesla countries)

Thanks for clarifying, and I agree!
-- My use of the word "first" was (a) simply quoting Depeche Mode's phrase in the preceding post and also (b) meaning that the discussion about the Toronto-Kingston gap is pretty meaningless until Kingston itself is operational, that's all.
-- PS: Your assessment of Canada's ranking among Tesla countries is, well, indeed all the more reason for us all to keep on with encouraging positive talk here, and in the same forward direction, towards fulfilling the unmet real needs ASAP.

 

[PoweredByRain]

And....what if you own a 60??????

Did you not read what I wrote above? "In a 60, well... if it's -20 and snowing, drive slowly, and for sure start with a full charge and pre-heated cabin!"

And Depeche Mode: you seem to be confused. We're talking about the distance from Toronto to Kingston. No one is suggesting that Kingston isn't absolutely required. Toronto to Cornwall is much too far! (Plus, Cornwall does nothing for people traveling from Toronto to Ottawa.)

 

[PoweredByRain]

Still, I feel you're adding unhelpful confusion and a serious disservice to Canadian Tesla owners who live thousands of miles east of your own location.

Ah yes, the assumption that because I live in Victoria I know nothing about Ontario. Two points:
1. I grew up in Ottawa
2. I just drove a Model S through Ontario from the west (Michigan) all the way to Quebec City and back, including Kingston and Ottawa. I know the region first hand.

Take just one glance at supercharge.info at many/most current SC routes in the warmer US (look at thru Colorado, up the US west cost, up the US east cost, Washington to Chicago).

Sure: I'll take just one glance. The first gap on I-5: Burlington to Centralia is about the same distance as Toronto to Kingston. So the very first place I look invalidates your claim. And in fact that was the first pairing I listed in my comment above. You either did not read, or are not reading with an open mind.

You started out with the claim that the distance from Toronto to Kingston is "~ *twice* what it is between most US SCs".

That is patently false.

You are the one who made the claim. Look at the routes, assemble a table, do the analysis, and show me that the majority of U.S. superchargers (along a route) are less than 125 km apart. Either that, or stop just making stuff up.


(And: including Colorado as part of "the warmer US" tells me you've never been to Colorado. Overnight lows of -15 C in the winter are the norm in many higher elevations along I-70. The Superchargers are spaced closely there because of the mountains, and to give the ability to travel OFF of the main route. If you're climbing up 5000 feet, you have no options. The last I checked there were no mountain passes between Toronto and Kingston.)

 

[JohnQ]

@ecodrive

Before Hamilton Marketplace, NJ opened, it was 276 km from Newark, DE to Darien, CT
Before Woodbridge, VA opened (and the temporary charger in Bethesda, MD), it was 323 km from Newark, DE to Glen Allen, VA
Before South Hill, VA opened, it was 318 km from Glen Allen, VA to Burlington, NC

The route was seeded with superchargers to allow 85kWh vehicles to travel then filled in to allow 60kWh vehicle travel. I expect the same thing is happening in Ontario. Canadian superchargers have been incredibly slow to roll out and I empathize. But a number of major travel corridors had widely spaced superchargers when they first opened.

 

[mnx]

Very surprised that I am breaking the news here (unless I missed it) but we have a location for the Barrie Supercharger. I noticed it while browsing plugshare the other day.

Target Parking Lot | Barrie, ON | Electric Car Charging Station | PlugShare

 

[mibaro2]

Very surprised that I am breaking the news here (unless I missed it) but we have a location for the Barrie Supercharger. I noticed it while browsing plugshare the other day.

Target Parking Lot | Barrie, ON | Electric Car Charging Station | PlugShare

Nice find. This is the first I have heard about the Barrie supercharger location.

 

[mknox]

Very surprised that I am breaking the news here (unless I missed it) but we have a location for the Barrie Supercharger. I noticed it while browsing plugshare the other day.

Target Parking Lot | Barrie, ON | Electric Car Charging Station | PlugShare

Thanks for the update! I drive by there semi-regularly on the way to the cottage and was thinking to myself that was a likely location. I'll try to remember and check it out on my way by next weekend.

 

[Steph_S]

Very surprised that I am breaking the news here (unless I missed it) but we have a location for the Barrie Supercharger. I noticed it while browsing plugshare the other day.

Target Parking Lot | Barrie, ON | Electric Car Charging Station | PlugShare

Very cool. Good catch. The thing is - anyone can add a dot on plugshare. It would be great to swing by and grab some pictures of the installation progress. I've been trying to keep an eye out for city building permit reports, and they are more often than not, published several months behind. The Cornwall Supercharger pretty much just appeared out of thin air - without any permits being published(at the time), or much advanced warning.

 

[mknox]

The thing is - anyone can add a dot on plugshare.

Most people are pretty honest about that sort of thing on PlugShare... at least in my experience. Unfortunately, whoever posted it called it a HPWC instead of Tesla Supercharger when setting it up.

 

[mnx]

Most people are pretty honest about that sort of thing on PlugShare... at least in my experience. Unfortunately, whoever posted it called it a HPWC instead of Tesla Supercharger when setting it up.

The comment from 3 days ago says the charger is in the permit phase. Wonder when we'll see ground breaking...

 

[djp]

The comment from 3 days ago says the charger is in the permit phase. Wonder when we'll see ground breaking...

I'd take it with a grain of salt. The same user added a Supercharger across from the Scarborough Town Centre.

Town Centre Plaza Parking Lot | Toronto, ON | Electric Car Charging Station | PlugShare

 

[PoweredByRain]

@ecodrive

Before Hamilton Marketplace, NJ opened, it was 276 km from Newark, DE to Darien, CT
Before Woodbridge, VA opened (and the temporary charger in Bethesda, MD), it was 323 km from Newark, DE to Glen Allen, VA
Before South Hill, VA opened, it was 318 km from Glen Allen, VA to Burlington, NC

The route was seeded with superchargers to allow 85kWh vehicles to travel then filled in to allow 60kWh vehicle travel. I expect the same thing is happening in Ontario. Canadian superchargers have been incredibly slow to roll out and I empathize. But a number of major travel corridors had widely spaced superchargers when they first opened.

And before St. George opened, a couple of weeks ago, the distance from Las Vegas to Beaver was 360 km AND a 4000 foot elevation gain, plus another 1000 feet at least to get over the summit before Beaver.

I was thinking about Toronto a bit more and: the Tesla service centre is really not convenient for east-west travel on the 401. What I think would make sense in the long run would be a charger somewhere like Ajax or Whitby, and another between the 403/401 merge and the 401/402 split. Then anyone traveling through Toronto need not go into Toronto, and anyone traveling west from Hamilton is covered. Lastly, add a charger near St Catharines or Niagara Falls.

Since I'm talking about adding chargers: one that isn't even being considered right now, but I think should be, is Nanaimo. This would cover travel up and down the populated east coast of Vancouver Island (home to about 750,000 people), as well as tourist travel to the west coast. This is not as large a destination as Whistler, but it's not exactly unheard of either. And unlike Vancouver - Whistler return, it is NOT possible to do Victoria - Tofino return without an overnight stay.

I would argue that a charger in Nanaimo is far more valuable than another one near Toronto precisely because there are no other alternatives. Having to charge to 100% is not a hardship compared to having to stop 8 hours to charge at a 6 kW public charger.

 

[KenN]

Well, there is a Chademo charger in Nanaimo.