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Car and Driver-2015 Tesla Model S 70D is The car of the century

ecarfan

Well-Known Member
Moderator
An okay article, which while effusive in its praise of the 70S, contained this silliness:

"To fully embrace any electric car, some lifestyle rearranging is necessary. Spur-of-the-moment trips are unwise. The next plug-in opportunity is always at the forefront of your consciousness. Speeding up when you’re running late may force an unplanned stop for a jolt of juice."

It is simply wrong to say that a spontaneous trip is "unwise". Charge the car every night and it's ready to go.
To say that one is always worrying about where to plug in is a gross exaggeration. The only time I think about where I am going to charge is when I am considering a trip that takes me far away from a Supercharger. So that is a few times a year, and I have always found charging solutions.
And to say that speeding up during a trip may result in a unplanned charging stop is also an exaggeration. It might possibly happen but with the current navigation software it is easy to avoid that situation.
 
It is not yet as convenient to trave long distance in an EV, IMHO. I am not sure if I would call that "range anxiety" but it is not far off. Many are in a hurry and don't want to wait for a charge when they are used to 5 minutes to fill, even though they may actually spent 20 minutes on a stop. But I certainly have to plan differently and I need more time to travel in my Model S than I needed with ICE cars previously. This will get better, but a lot of people are not "ready" for the extra watching of power levels and so many less places to stop for energy. My 2 cents.
EVs are the future and it will get better, easier, faster, I believe also.
And with the car of the century being a 70D, what does that make my 85D?
 
It is not yet as convenient to trave long distance in an EV, IMHO. I am not sure if I would call that "range anxiety" but it is not far off. Many are in a hurry and don't want to wait for a charge when they are used to 5 minutes to fill, even though they may actually spent 20 minutes on a stop. But I certainly have to plan differently and I need more time to travel in my Model S than I needed with ICE cars previously. This will get better, but a lot of people are not "ready" for the extra watching of power levels and so many less places to stop for energy. My 2 cents.
EVs are the future and it will get better, easier, faster, I believe also.
And with the car of the century being a 70D, what does that make my 85D?

It does take some planning and a mental change to drive these cars, but it's completely worth it.
 
It does take some planning and a mental change to drive these cars, but it's completely worth it.

To drive them where?
To work and back with a stop at the store, no, it doesn't take any planning. or it takes less planning because you don't need to figure out when you're going to get gas.

To drive them to the National Park in the next state over, yeah, that takes some changes.

but I do the latter style of driving less than 1% of the days. The other >99% of the days, I get in the car and go without thinking one whit about charging. Seriously, the only time a Tesla owner is likely to think about charging on the road, they're spending some time trip planning (e.g., what to pack, where to stay) anyway.
 
To drive them where?
To work and back with a stop at the store, no, it doesn't take any planning. or it takes less planning because you don't need to figure out when you're going to get gas. To drive them to the National Park in the next state over, yeah, that takes some changes.

but I do the latter style of driving less than 1% of the days. The other >99% of the days, I get in the car and go without thinking one whit about charging. Seriously, the only time a Tesla owner is likely to think about charging on the road, they're spending some time trip planning (e.g., what to pack, where to stay) anyway.
Agreed. The way so many articles describe a MS, it would seem range anxiety is a common situation. I too have to plan charging less than 1% of the time. The problem is the uninformed potential buyer, like my brother, reads these articles and the first thing he says to me is, "OMG, what about range anxiety?" Then I have to have this conversation with literally ALL of my relatives who ask the same question, over and over again...

The media needs to start explaining this 99% to 1% ratio for many Tesla owners, in their articles.
 
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Good article even if the many charging stops sound confusing. Interesting to see the comments below the article. As always there is a hard core anti Tesla person writing multiple, long and angry comments. Since you never seem to meet a Tesla hater in real life, I have always been curious who they are and where they come from, how did they become one, often even without driving the car??? It is a mystery.
 
To be clear, I love my 85D and can't imagine buying an ICE ever again. I will be one of the first in line for the Model 3.
AND not everyone sees the deficits of the CURRENT situation like those of us that are diehard Tesla drivers.
And I think it is important to remember the shortcomings, which are often (but not always) mental.
Take this real life example: a fellow (grey) Model S owner caught me in a parking lot and we talked quite a bit about our cars. His a 60, mine an 85D. My wife and I have driven on a 3600 mile adventure through two non-SupC areas (including the Wyoming desert, which I see has Sheridan under construction now--yeah!) and he is afraid to make a rather local (in my mind) trip to a local town 75 miles away. 150 miles round trip and they take their "high mileage" ICE (36 mpg) because of, best I can tell, range anxiety. This a rather avid owner. So charged full, flat terrain, 208 mi range, and they won't go 75 miles from home because of fear of running out of energy. I would have liked to help him/them through their issue, but ran out of time.
So, my point is, people have anxiety for all kinds of things, sometimes when they don't need to, but they still do.
We are changing the ways of driving and thinking about driving and most people are slow about that.
 
The article was good, but the comments are hilarious :smile:. There certainly are some narrow minded people in the world. I've noticed that when the ill-informed ICE driver gets cornered in his position he falls back to the old standby "long tailpipe" argument, claiming that your EV is still burning fossil fuels. Sigh! Yet this same supposedly educated individual completely ignores the amount of energy required to create a gallon of gas. Recent studies have shown that a typical ICE car uses as much electricity as a Tesla, and then STILL burns the fuel. I just can't even be bothered to argue with these people anymore because they are just too dumb.

Conversely I've had lots of people stop me to ask constructive questions about my car. The subject of range anxiety usually comes up, but I refute it pretty quickly. My Porsche got about 450kms per tank of premium gas and my Tesla gets 400kms with similar driving habits. They usually point out that there 125000 gas stations in the U.S. And I ask them how many electrical outlets there are in the same area? This usually makes them ponder a bit harder.

In the end it boils down to their one solid argument that they can fill a tank of gas in 5 minutes vs 40 minutes to charge. Unless you are lined up at a Costco gas station the argument is irrefutable, but I point out that my charge is free or practically free and I'm willing to wait for "free". If all else fails I offer to take them for a drive - that sells them pretty quickly on electric vehicles.
 
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Model 3

Active Member
Jul 13, 2014
2,133
1,325
Norway
In the end it boils down to their one solid argument that they can fill a tank of gas in 5 minutes vs 40 minutes to charge. Unless you are lined up at a Costco gas station the argument is irrefutable, but I point out that my charge is free or practically free and I'm willing to wait for "free". If all else fails I offer to take them for a drive - that sells them pretty quickly on electric vehicles.

Is it really that irrefutable?

Waiting for my Model 3, I still drive around in a gasoline car. In my normal day to day driving, I do this "5 minutes fill up" once or twice a week. If I had been driving a Tesla - even a 60 - all my "fuel" would have came from the outlet at home. 0 minutes to "fill up".

On a longer trip it is something else. When I fill up on a longer trip I also use the rest room, and buy a few items, cool drinks or hot beverages, some junk-food etc. All this after I'm done filling up the car. Often we are several people who all have the same needs (restroom/food/drinks). This "5 minutes stop" usually go on to be 15/20 minutes or more. More if we get some descant food. The more people in the car, the longer and more often the pauses. And more often then not the stop is decided based on the need for a break then for the need to fill up. I don't say "It takes less time to charge then to fill up" (on a road trip), but that the real difference is not 5 minutes vs 40 minutes.
 
I just can't even be bothered to argue with these people anymore because they are just too dumb.
I understand, but if you believe like Elon does, and if any part of you/us believes in climate change, we have to change a lot of people's minds or it will not be pretty. So please keep trying to help people get it what this car (and other EVs) can/are doing.
...part of why I hope this is the car of the century and everybody gets one or one like it...
 
Is it really that irrefutable?

Waiting for my Model 3, I still drive around in a gasoline car. In my normal day to day driving, I do this "5 minutes fill up" once or twice a week. If I had been driving a Tesla - even a 60 - all my "fuel" would have came from the outlet at home. 0 minutes to "fill up".

On a longer trip it is something else. When I fill up on a longer trip I also use the rest room, and buy a few items, cool drinks or hot beverages, some junk-food etc. All this after I'm done filling up the car. Often we are several people who all have the same needs (restroom/food/drinks). This "5 minutes stop" usually go on to be 15/20 minutes or more. More if we get some descant food. The more people in the car, the longer and more often the pauses. And more often then not the stop is decided based on the need for a break then for the need to fill up. I don't say "It takes less time to charge then to fill up" (on a road trip), but that the real difference is not 5 minutes vs 40 minutes.

Your point is valid. I tell people I just charge at home overnight, which negates the need for any fill up time. They think this is cool, but simple gas station vs supercharger fill times are what people seem to want to compare. They understand going out to a gas station, but having a full tank every morning is beyond comprehension to many
 

rickgt

Enthusiast owner/member
Supporting Member
Dec 13, 2014
343
21
Carmel
well said...

The article was good, but the comments are hilarious :smile:. There certainly are some narrow minded people in the world. I've noticed that when the ill-informed ICE driver gets cornered in his position he falls back to the old standby "long tailpipe" argument, claiming that your EV is still burning fossil fuels. Sigh! Yet this same supposedly educated individual completely ignores the amount of energy required to create a gallon of gas. Recent studies have shown that a typical ICE car uses as much electricity as a Tesla, and then STILL burns the fuel. I just can't even be bothered to argue with these people anymore because they are just too dumb.

Conversely I've had lots of people stop me to ask constructive questions about my car. The subject of range anxiety usually comes up, but I refute it pretty quickly. My Porsche got about 450kms per tank of premium gas and my Tesla gets 400kms with similar driving habits. They usually point out that there 125000 gas stations in the U.S. And I ask them how many electrical outlets there are in the same area? This usually makes them ponder a bit harder.

In the end it boils down to their one solid argument that they can fill a tank of gas in 5 minutes vs 40 minutes to charge. Unless you are lined up at a Costco gas station the argument is irrefutable, but I point out that my charge is free or practically free and I'm willing to wait for "free". If all else fails I offer to take them for a drive - that sells them pretty quickly on electric vehicles.
 

bxr140

Active Member
Nov 18, 2014
3,144
5,226
Bay Area
Is it really that irrefutable?

I don't know about irrefutable (that's pretty definitive...), but there's no question that charge time is one of the two major concerns of prospective EV buyers. I believe that when it comes to mass adoption of EVs, charge time (and range) must be addressed...and not just with trade studies and math but at some more rudimentary level that appeals to the not-completely-logical mass market.
 

Model 3

Active Member
Jul 13, 2014
2,133
1,325
Norway
... but there's no question that charge time is one of the two major concerns of prospective EV buyers.

I have no problem with agreeing on that. I was just arguing that it's not - like a lot of prospective EV buyers think - a question of "5 minutes" vs "40 minutes" (or more!) like a lot of people seems to believe. In day-to-day driving it's more like "5 minutes" vs "0 minutes", and on trips it's more like "20 minutes" vs "40 minutes" for most people. But yes, to really convince a lot of the sceptics range and charging time needs to be addressed. And Tesla is doing just that, and I guess that they will continue to address that.
 
They usually point out that there 125000 gas stations in the U.S.. And I ask them how many electrical outlets there are in the same area? This usually makes them ponder a bit harder.

.

What interests me is that most people think that charging is such a problem, when in reality it takes seconds, in my garage. There is no way to compare the weekly trip to a station for a fill up, to a Full-Every-Morning with once a month 20 minute stop while I eat a sandwich, not standing and watching the car fill. Only 5% of charging is done at a supercharger! That's once every few weeks on average. "Oh, you gotta take that down to the station to fill it up, AND you gotta pay for that?? And it takes you HOW long standing there holding that handle?? I wouldn't do that."
 

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