I have seen this happen over and over again. They will always pop in and say everything's fine and make everyone feel better than eventually something doesn't work out and people lose money. What's the purpose in prepaying? Get your money back and pay when it's released.
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Carbon Fiber Rims
- Thread starter AngelArm1110
- Start date
ShotgunF15E
Member
Seriously folks, you are all smart people or you wouldn't be on here. As much as I would love to see this product become a reality, unless you are a venture capitalist and now own part of this 'company'; go straight to your credit card company and file a dispute. You've been charged for a product that you haven't received.
SoccerMan94043
Member
Tech_Guy
ALWAYS IN LUDICROUS MODE! P90D>P100D Upgrade
Talked to Victor today, said he had called back anyone that had left him a message etc id suggest reaching out if you haven't heard from him and would like to speak with him.
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artsci
Sponsor
Did he tell you anything about the status of the rims?
I texted, emailed, and called him. No response.
artsci
Sponsor
Having heard not word from ESE, I decided this am that there was too much risk, so armed with complete documentation -- emails, receipts, test messages, etc -- I began the dispute/chargeback process with my bank today. It's now in the hands of the security department in my bank. It's a prima facie case of ESE's violation of Visa rules --fully charging for the product before it ships, promising delivery dates that are not realized, etc, etc. It will probably be a slam dunk with the chargeback, especially since I have documentation for everything.
These people are either liars, incompetent, or are making things up as they go. I've put way too much trust in them already and they've violated it at every turn. I suggest everyone who has money at risk with ESE do the same. If there are enough chargebacks they will be prevented from taking credit card payments in the future. IMHO it's what they deserve for their behavior.
When I receive my wheels as ordered, I'll cancel the chargeback. But at this stage I think that's highly unlikely.
These people are either liars, incompetent, or are making things up as they go. I've put way too much trust in them already and they've violated it at every turn. I suggest everyone who has money at risk with ESE do the same. If there are enough chargebacks they will be prevented from taking credit card payments in the future. IMHO it's what they deserve for their behavior.
When I receive my wheels as ordered, I'll cancel the chargeback. But at this stage I think that's highly unlikely.
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I've been watching this thread and I think this is the best move. No reason for you to bear all that risk; no legit company would have you front 100% of the purchase price (without your consent, it appears, as you were told it would be 50%) while the product is nowhere near ready for shipment.
For one reason or another, the company is not ready for primetime. There's no proof they are frauds or doing anything sinister, but it's clear they just aren't ready. Perhaps they have cashflow issues if they required full payment ahead of R&D (let alone mfg). Maybe design issues are unworkable. Maybe they have too much on their plate. Who knows, but either way you as the consumer should not even have to think about these things or bear the risk that they don't deliver. It should be clear to the company now that the demand is there if they deliver, so if they are a legit company they will begin producing and selling these things without demanding full payment upfront.
I'd advise others to follow art's lead. Get your money back to protect yourself and to send a message to the company that the repeated delays and lack of communication are not acceptable. Once the product is out there feel free to buy back in if they have regained your trust at that point. Good luck to all.
Tech_Guy
ALWAYS IN LUDICROUS MODE! P90D>P100D Upgrade
There really wasn't an update still waiting for independent testing results, but he was more then happy to refund me... I decided to place a new deposit so that I could continue to be protected by my cc company should the need arise. Contact him and do what you feel is right if you want to wait, wait and pay the slight cost increases, or if it makes you more comfortable get refund/place a new deposit and get a new term for cc protection ... They don't want us to feel at risk...
I don't currently have an order, so I am more interested in the status of the wheels... They were said to be produced and at a 3rd party testing company or something like that. Results? Pics of the wheels prior to testing? Pics of them "making it rain" at the club where they spent your money? 
...J/k
...J/k
artsci
Sponsor
Same old
Same story -- they always have a good reason for yet another delay. We've seen only one photo of a real wheel. It's in ESE's interest to keep us posted on progress and photos of production wheels do that. Why not photos of the wheels being tested? That we don't see them just raises suspicions.
Ask for a refund. I don't think you'll se it anytime soon if at all. That's why I did a chargeback.
Same story -- they always have a good reason for yet another delay. We've seen only one photo of a real wheel. It's in ESE's interest to keep us posted on progress and photos of production wheels do that. Why not photos of the wheels being tested? That we don't see them just raises suspicions.
Ask for a refund. I don't think you'll se it anytime soon if at all. That's why I did a chargeback.
Tech_Guy
ALWAYS IN LUDICROUS MODE! P90D>P100D Upgrade
I did ask for a refund and once it clears I will place a new deposit as I explained above, makes me feel more comfortable about the delay having the CC protecting me in a worst case....
Camera-Cruiser
Fully Charged
If they were real, there would be pictures. Simple really.
Remember prior to the M3 debut, some speculated that all people would see, would be computer modeled pictures. Instead there were drivable prototypes and everyone was allowed to to go on a test ride, take pictures,,and blog about it.
These guys keep saying that there are no pictures since they don't want to divulge any proprietary trade secrets. I think the secret is that there is nothing to show. Nada.
I have no skin in the game and I hope I'm proven wrong, but they could solve problems buy showing just 10s of sets of wheels ready to go based on testing. Not hundreds, but 8 to 12 sets. If they are at testing, it is a 5 minute call to have a person take a few pictures at the facility, and boom, some faith restored.
Even if they ship, are you going to trust the wheels at this point?
Remember prior to the M3 debut, some speculated that all people would see, would be computer modeled pictures. Instead there were drivable prototypes and everyone was allowed to to go on a test ride, take pictures,,and blog about it.
These guys keep saying that there are no pictures since they don't want to divulge any proprietary trade secrets. I think the secret is that there is nothing to show. Nada.
I have no skin in the game and I hope I'm proven wrong, but they could solve problems buy showing just 10s of sets of wheels ready to go based on testing. Not hundreds, but 8 to 12 sets. If they are at testing, it is a 5 minute call to have a person take a few pictures at the facility, and boom, some faith restored.
Even if they ship, are you going to trust the wheels at this point?
artsci
Sponsor
QUOTE="Tech_Guy, post: 1721126, member: 47936"]I did ask for a refund and once it clears I will place a new deposit as I explained above, makes me feel more comfortable about the delay having the CC protecting me in a worst case....[/QUOTE]
Let us know when the refund shows up. It shouldn't take more than a few hours to be processed and credited to your account.
Let us know when the refund shows up. It shouldn't take more than a few hours to be processed and credited to your account.
artsci
Sponsor
Tech_Guy
ALWAYS IN LUDICROUS MODE! P90D>P100D Upgrade
Will do I expect it to take a few days to post... Have a refund coming from Amazon as well from earlier this week that I'm still waiting on as well I find it can take a few days...
SoccerMan94043
Member
What should happen is you will be refunded the amount authorized as soon as the paper work is processed by your credit card issuing bank. The money is then removed from the merchant's acquiring bank via the standard ACH process (next business day). The merchant's bank will either pull the money from the merchants account or eat the cost if it's a deadbeat merchant (e.g. fraud). If the merchant wins during the chargeback dispute, then things reverse (there is no way in hell that will happen in this case).
Being that this is most likely a new merchant, it won't take many chargebacks to shut off their card processing. Make sure that is the outcome you all want before pushing forward... I've seen a few merchants go bankrupt in a situation like this and then you definitely won't be getting rims
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