CCS Adapter for North America

[wws]

Tesla's fast charging moat is not as deep or wide as folks tend to believe, anymore. I am happy for this, and it is beneficial to all EV owners...

Well - If going to Northern California, you did have to make a detour through Colorado - rather than simply going across Wyoming.

Good to hear that CCS worked well for you. I intend to buy a CCS setup as soon as it is offered (with charge port upgrade for my 2018 car.)

 

[MSHampton]

ditto ??

I use the setec/lectron adapter and charge at the EA station near me here in Texas.

 

[rhuber]

Well - If going to Northern California, you did have to make a detour through Colorado - rather than simply going across Wyoming.

Good to hear that CCS worked well for you. I intend to buy a CCS setup as soon as it is offered (with charge port upgrade for my 2018 car.)

L.A. No detour.

 

[e of pi]

I just drove all the way from IL to CA using CCS exclusively. It was 1) cheaper (i have the $4/mo plan for EA) and 2) faster (again mostly V2 on this route). It made me feel much better about my March-April Rivian R1T delivery. I'll share a longer form post of my experience doing the return trip when time allows, but once again optimistic about the future for EVs, in general.

One thing I especially like about CCS is that there are often slower options sprinkled around that can really help you in a bind. I used a random Chargepoint in Grand Junction, CO because the supercharger and EA station are both on the south edge of town, but this 50kw CCS was right along I-70. I actually saved time using it, because I only needed a small boost (due to me backtracking to grab something left behind at a stop, doh!).

Tesla's fast charging moat is not as deep or wide as folks tend to believe, anymore. I am happy for this, and it is beneficial to all EV owners.

(and if I hear one more person on twitter talk about the amazingness of the compact Tesla charge port, I'll scream and point to the Model 3 in Europe, which is just plainly more convenient with CCS2. I don't care what my charge port looks like.)

I'd really like to hear your full rundown when you get it written up, it sounds like an interesting drive. I think your point about the more-than-additive nature of CCS networks is a great one. Based on my best estimates, having a CCS adapter today gives you access to nearly twice as many locations with >70 kW charging in North America (about 1,300 locations with >70 kW charging show on plugshare compared to 1,415 Supercharger). Of course, it only adds about 20-30% more plugs, but in some saturated areas, I'd imagine an extra 20% more plugs overnight wouldn't go unappreciated. With that, and with rising supercharger network costs, the Tesla charging moat seems from my side of it to be more and more of an enforced walled garden. I'm hopeful the CCS preparations from Tesla signal its end soon, meaning we'll have effectively one charging network standard in the US, universally available, before EV sales really take off with a fractured standard base.

 

[Proppilot]

The CCS adapter is a game changer at any price and hopefully it is not at any price !

 

[jsmay311]

I just drove all the way from IL to CA using CCS exclusively. It was 1) cheaper (i have the $4/mo plan for EA) and 2) faster (again mostly V2 on this route). It made me feel much better about my March-April Rivian R1T delivery. I'll share a longer form post of my experience doing the return trip when time allows, but once again optimistic about the future for EVs, in general.

One thing I especially like about CCS is that there are often slower options sprinkled around that can really help you in a bind. I used a random Chargepoint in Grand Junction, CO because the supercharger and EA station are both on the south edge of town, but this 50kw CCS was right along I-70. I actually saved time using it, because I only needed a small boost (due to me backtracking to grab something left behind at a stop, doh!).

Tesla's fast charging moat is not as deep or wide as folks tend to believe, anymore. I am happy for this, and it is beneficial to all EV owners.

(and if I hear one more person on twitter talk about the amazingness of the compact Tesla charge port, I'll scream and point to the Model 3 in Europe, which is just plainly more convenient with CCS2. I don't care what my charge port looks like.)


View attachment 754225

Very cool! Thanks for sharing.

It was 1) cheaper (i have the $4/mo plan for EA) and 2) faster (again mostly V2 on this route).

I just checked EA prices and the availability of Tesla V3 Supercharger vs EA 350kW charger locations between IL and CA, and you're mostly right on these points.

There are indeed large gaps between IL and CA where there are only V2 Superchargers, particularly in Iowa and Nebraska. (See the Plugshare map comparisons of V3 Superchargers vs 350kW EA locations below.)

And EA's membership flat rate of $0.31/kWh in per-kWh states is cheaper than most per-kWh Superchargers. And EA's $0.24/minute membership rate in per-minute states totally blows Tesla's new per-minute pricing out of the water. (In your one photo, I see you were averaging only $0.095/kWh over a 60kWh charge. Nice!)

However, some per-kWh Superchargers in Iowa and Nevada (for example) are cheaper than $0.31/kWh, so the pricing advantage isn't uniform.

Tesla V3 Supercharger locations:

EA 350kW locations:

 

[chinney]

But you can't take advantage of faster charging times using EA 350 kW locations if you are using an CCS adapter with a Tesla. Or can you? Is there something that I am not understanding? I thought the throughput on the adapters was pretty limited even if the charging station theoretically has a high kW output available.

 

[rhuber]

But you can't take advantage of faster charging times using EA 350 kW locations if you are using an CCS adapter with a Tesla. Or can you? Is there something that I am not understanding? I thought the throughput on the adapters was pretty limited even if the charging station theoretically has a high kW output available.

The 2021+ S/x have a slightly higher pack voltage than the older cars, which works out to more kW when pushed to the 500A limit of CCS1 stations in the US. On my car (Plaid) the peak is around 218kW with CCS.

 

[Proppilot]

This article is saying that 120 kW should be expected and actual use showed 60-70 kW. Still WAY better than a Level 2

First Look: Tesla CCS adapter in use reveals lower than expected charging speeds

Tesla finally released their long-awaited CCS adapter in South Korea earlier this week. The first customers are now receiving the adapters and we have our first look at the size and form factor of the […]

driveteslacanada.ca

 

[rhuber]

If anyone in L.A. (santa monica) wants to try my adapter on a CCS capable 3/Y, I'm happy to meet up.

Edit: preferably with a low SoC to make it worthwhile. I know the adapter will work, but the curve is the interesting bit.

 

[chinney]

This article is saying that 120 kW should be expected and actual use showed 60-70 kW. Still WAY better than a Level 2

First Look: Tesla CCS adapter in use reveals lower than expected charging speeds

Tesla finally released their long-awaited CCS adapter in South Korea earlier this week. The first customers are now receiving the adapters and we have our first look at the size and form factor of the […]

driveteslacanada.ca

I wonder if the discussion here is getting a bit muddled. Or perhaps my brain is. The map of Tesla chargers above is of V3 locations - V2 locations are not shown. If you showed V2 charging locations as well, many more points would show up on the map. And V2 Supercharging, of course, is not the same thing as "Level 2" charging. V2 tops out at 150 kW, which is faster, I think, than CCS charging with a Tesla using an adapter. Subject to rhuber's point about new model S/X having greater capacity for CCS charging (what adapter is this with? and what types of CCS chargers?), Tesla V2 is still going to be faster than CCS for most Tesla drivers, no?

 

[rhuber]

I wonder if the discussion here is getting a bit muddled. Or perhaps my brain is. The map of Tesla chargers above is of V3 locations - V2 locations are not shown. If you showed V2 charging locations as well, many more points would show up on the map. And V2 Supercharging, of course, is not the same thing as "Level 2" charging. V2 tops out at 150 kW, which is faster, I think, than CCS charging with a Tesla using an adapter. Subject to rhuber's point about new model S/X having greater capacity for CCS charging (what adapter is this with? and what types of CCS chargers?), Tesla V2 is still going to be faster than CCS for most Tesla drivers, no?

He was pointing out the case I made for my car specifically, where V3 > CCS > V2. So in my case it often makes more sense to use CCS, and he was just illustrating that almost all EA stations can charge _my_ car faster than the superchargers on the route. rough math tells me that a 3/Y probably peaks at 175-ish kW with my adapter, but that's why I want to find someone to test.

 

[jsmay311]

This article is saying that 120 kW should be expected and actual use showed 60-70 kW. Still WAY better than a Level 2

First Look: Tesla CCS adapter in use reveals lower than expected charging speeds

Tesla finally released their long-awaited CCS adapter in South Korea earlier this week. The first customers are now receiving the adapters and we have our first look at the size and form factor of the […]

driveteslacanada.ca

That article is a bit dated. More recent examples (including @rhuber’s above) have Teslas pulling >150kW from “350kW” CCS stations.

 

[Proppilot]

That article is a bit dated. More recent examples (including @rhuber’s above) have Teslas pulling >150kW from “350kW” CCS stations.

Yes, agreed. It does however reference the OEM Tesla adapter. One does HOPE that it is decently priced and pulls high level power.

 

[bradtem]

While more speed is of course very nice, 50kw (or rather 43kw which is about all I ever got) is not to sneeze at. First of all, as you know you only get very fast changing when your car is at a low SoC. Above 50% it drops down to 50kw pretty quickly. So your time at a 50kw charger is longer, but only modestly longer than a 120kw or more.

Secondly, I mostly use the DCFast as backups for when I can't make the Supercharger. So you can just stop at them for 5-10 minutes to top up to know you will make the SC. Once we get 150kw CCS that will no longer be a must, and it's less convenient to be sure, but it's quite doable.

I made a map overlaying the Superchargers with the CHAdeMO. CCS is pretty much the same map. I don't know a site that does this, I had to make it myself from Plugshare. Because I overlaid CDM/CCS on top of Superchargers, some of the Superchargers are not quite as visible. This is the western US. There are some areas like BC, Quebec north of Montreal and the maritimes for which the SC network is thin and DC Fast is not just a "nice" it's a "must." There are a few here too, like US 50 across Nevada and several other such roads. There are many roads where you can get from SC to SC no problem -- IF you don't detour. On the other hand, Montana and Wyoming? Better have a Tesla and only a Tesla. As you might guess, SC are orange, DC Fast are Cyan.

 

[jsmay311]

While more speed is of course very nice, 50kw (or rather 43kw which is about all I ever got) is not to sneeze at. First of all, as you know you only get very fast changing when your car is at a low SoC. Above 50% it drops down to 50kw pretty quickly. So your time at a 50kw charger is longer, but only modestly longer than a 120kw or more.

Secondly, I mostly use the DCFast as backups for when I can't make the Supercharger. So you can just stop at them for 5-10 minutes to top up to know you will make the SC. Once we get 150kw CCS that will no longer be a must, and it's less convenient to be sure, but it's quite doable.

I made a map overlaying the Superchargers with the CHAdeMO. CCS is pretty much the same map. I don't know a site that does this, I had to make it myself from Plugshare. Because I overlaid CDM/CCS on top of Superchargers, some of the Superchargers are not quite as visible. This is the western US. There are some areas like BC, Quebec north of Montreal and the maritimes for which the SC network is thin and DC Fast is not just a "nice" it's a "must." There are a few here too, like US 50 across Nevada and several other such roads. There are many roads where you can get from SC to SC no problem -- IF you don't detour. On the other hand, Montana and Wyoming? Better have a Tesla and only a Tesla. As you might guess, SC are orange, DC Fast are Cyan.
View attachment 754381

If you don't mind me asking, how'd you make that map?

 

[IronCoffee_Max]

If you don't mind me asking, how'd you make that map?

Looks like Plugshare.

 

[bradtem]

Looks like Plugshare.

Yup, it's two maps from plugshare -- one with Tesla, one with CHAdeMO (or CCS, almost the same.) Then you change the colour on one, remove all that is not that colour and paste it over the other layer. Not that hard. You need to zoom into plugshare enough to see all the stations though so a map of the whole continent would be work (but doable.)

I've been looking for a while for a map that shows the different fast chargers in different colours. I have asked plugshare a few times to add that as a feature, but so far nothing -- you guys should write them and ask for that feature as well. It's nice to make your plan knowing what station is what. Plugshare does let you ask for ">120kw" though so if that's all you care about you can use that.

 

[chinney]

He was pointing out the case I made for my car specifically, where V3 > CCS > V2. So in my case it often makes more sense to use CCS, and he was just illustrating that almost all EA stations can charge _my_ car faster than the superchargers on the route. rough math tells me that a 3/Y probably peaks at 175-ish kW with my adapter, but that's why I want to find someone to test.

Thanks. If I understand correctly, your adapter is heavily custom-modified - almost effectively custom-made (by you, well done!) - but that is beyond the capacity and/or level of comfort of most of us. What the standard throughput will be in North America for a Tesla-made or Tesla-sanctioned CCS adapter is not yet clear. My fear is that it will be far lower than what you are getting, but I am hoping that this does not have to be the case. I guess that we will have to stay tuned.

 

[bmah]

Moderator note: As suggested in a report, moved nine posts about the Chargeway app to this thread:

Chargeway app

I've been looking for a while for a map that shows the different fast chargers in different colours. Moderator note: The first 9 posts of this thread were moved from a different thread. There is one app that does that: https://www.chargeway.net/ It looks like they have a patent pending, so...

teslamotorsclub.com

Bruce.