CHAdeMO Make/Model Review — Using with a Tesla

[cwerdna]

RiverBrick: Also keep in mind some of the Nissan Quick Charger - CHAdeMO DC Fast Charging for Electric Vehicles units are networked (e.g. Chargepoint or NRG eVgo) while some are not.

(My comments below only apply to CHAdeMO DC FCs, not any L2 EVSEs also present there.)
not networked:
Walgreens | San Jose, CA | Electric Car Charging Station | PlugShare

networked:
Walgreens | Santa Clara, CA | Electric Car Charging Station | PlugShare - wasn't networked for ages and was free. Now it's on the Blink network.
Walgreens | San Jose, CA | Electric Car Charging Station | PlugShare - ditto
Premier Nissan of San Jose | San Jose, CA | Electric Car Charging Station | PlugShare - wasn't networked, then got added to Chargepoint (their authentication equipment added). Has since been changed to NRG eVGo.

Perhaps with them being networked, new firmware or settings (e.g. limits) can be pushed to the DC FCs?

Pretty much all Nissan dealer CHAdeMO DC FCs of the above model started off standalone (not networked) then they mostly (all?) got added due to My Nissan Leaf Forum View topic - Networking the free DCQC chargers at Nissan dealers.

 

[pagal]

I thought there were two different Nissan units, but I can't find the pictures. The very narrow one that's about $12k, and then the more boxy one that seems much more sturdy.

The most common in Norway is the slim one produced by DBT:

 

[hiroshiy]

Hiroshiy, if I understand correctly, everyone has this issue in Japan and I certainly hope the problem gets resolved.

In the USA, it is a bit different. Some people are able to charge at 36-42 kW without restriction. For example, recently MarcG posted a pic of such an event in this thread. However, I seemingly always have the 25 kW limit. I first thought it depended on the particular Nissan slim unit, but it seems to depend on the user, since I have the limit at places where other board members don't.

I have charged at six Nissan slim units and always 25 kW max.
Twice I used efacec stations and benefited from 44 kW and 30 kW.

At two different of the Nissan stations, other forum members saw > 100A where
I got < 70A. Additionally, there is a plugshare comment indicating an owner received > 100A at a 3rd place where I was limited.

The places where there's evidence of > 100A charging, but I see < 70A are West Valley Mall, Tracy, California, ATC Drive Train North , Oklahoma City, and St Charles Nissan, Missouri.

So, the restriction seems to be imposed by firmware in the adapter, or perhaps in the vehicle. I have build .179 of firmware 6.1. In case it's the adapter's firmware, they either are deliberately testing by shipping different firmwares or someone made a mistake.

In all cases, there was no unusual battery temperature or SOC % to explain the low amps.

Ok, maybe the fact is different from what I speculated, but I heard this 25kW limit is imposed by the Tesla car firmware, not by adapter firmware, and it is based on a charger version, from a few Tesla techs and the director of Battery Technology, while he was visiting Tokyo.

Hope Tesla is working on the interim solution to baby poorly designed chargers...

 

[hiroshiy]

I can see why that won't work. The Tesla owner will just unplug an replug to get the charging rate back up. Forum members, of course, won't do that being aware of the reason, but forum members are only a very small portion of Tesla owners.

In such a case the firmware could measure the total cumulative charging time for each of those poorly designed charger for 24 hours and if it reaches 60 minutes reduce the rate to 25kW.

I think in the US it is less issue because of Superchargers. In Japan it's a big issue so Tesla may need to implement that kind of complex and non-productive workaround, or they could spend some money to invest in Tesla-sponsored 50kW chargers in 4 or 5 locations. After all Japan is small and it's easy to do that, especially the government pays two thirds of the cost, electricity not included.

 

[davewill]

Well, the proper solution would be for the CHAdeMO to monitor it's own temperature and/or usage and do it's own throttling. After all, theoretically, you could have the same problem by charging other brands of car for short periods back-to-back-to back.

 

[cwerdna]

The most common in Norway is the slim one produced by DBT:View attachment 76384View attachment 76385

You mean the one on the left? That's a DBT. I looked thru DBT's web page before and we have don't have 3 of 4 of those units in the US. Their web page looks different now but right now, you can see their 4 versions at Electric Vehicles charging solutions DBT CEV, our chargers then click thru the 4 types.

Quick charging solutions for electric vehicles: the new génération does cosmetically look quite similar to the one below. None of the ones in the US have the two rows of buttons (left and right of tall LCD) nor a tall LCD. However, in their pics, the version with the blue start button and green stop button and 3 lights to the right look identical to the Nissan CHAdeMO DC FC below.

I've also never heard of DBT branded infrastructure anywhere in the US, esp. QC.

The one on the right is a Nissan/Sumitomo one: Nissan Quick Charger - CHAdeMO DC Fast Charging for Electric Vehicles.

 

[J-Philipp]

DBT is French, and the charger they build is made of NISSAN hardware.

It's a very common unit here in France. Sadly we, French Model S owners, can confirm that they are affected by the dreadful 25 kW capping when using the Tesla adapter.

We have reports that another french brand, STGE power, is working like a charm (steady 122 A) with the Model S. But there's only one in France (Le Mans).

 

[hiroshiy]

Tesla Motors Japan : 電気ã￾§Go!: モデルSã￾§é￾ ã￾￾ã￾¸!

Tesla admitted CHAdeMO incompatibility in their Japanese blog here.

So it seems quite difficult to solve incompatibility with Hasetec, but with Nissan they might be able to fix with the adapter update, be it adapter firmware or adapter itself.

Re 25kW limit, they seem to change it to 44kW for 30 min, and then limit to 25kW afterwards.

 

[RiverBrick]

Tesla admitted CHAdeMO incompatibility in their Japanese blog here.

So it seems quite difficult to solve incompatibility with Hasetec, but with Nissan they might be able to fix with the adapter update, be it adapter firmware or adapter itself.

Re 25kW limit, they seem to change it to 44kW for 30 min, and then limit to 25kW afterwards.

Sorry about that. Besides the 25 kW limit at Nissan stations, I am very pleased with the CHAdeMO adapter. Absolutely no compatibility issues. The adapter has worked for me with units from Nissan, Efacec, Eaton, Signet, Fuji, Aerovironment, AddEnergie and ABB. I will post details later. The only trouble sometimes is my error, since every CHAdeMO station is different, with a seemingly unique pistol locking mechanism.

 

[cwerdna]

Sorry about that. Besides the 25 kW limit at Nissan stations, I am very pleased with the CHAdeMO adapter. Absolutely no compatibility issues. The adapter has worked for me with units from Nissan, Efacec, Eaton, Signet, Fuji, Aerovironment, AddEnergie and ABB. I will post details later. The only trouble sometimes is my error, since every CHAdeMO station is different, with a seemingly unique pistol locking mechanism.

Re: the handles, that's a bummer. I've only personally experienced the crap unintuitive Yazaki handle w/grey handle lock (#2 below).

CHAdeMO Connectors CHAdeMO Association has pics of others and instructions.

I may have posted these videos before, but if one wants to see instructions on the two crap (unintuitive) Yazaki handle designs, see these:
1) How To Use a Yazaki CHAdeMO Connector - YouTube
2) Using Yazaki connector/handle on Nissan-branded CHAdeMO DC fast chargers - YouTube - grey handle lock version

3) MUCH better version: Blink DCFC Yazaki Next Generation Connector - YouTube

If you want to skip the chatter on all these, skip to ~0:40.

 

[pagal]

You mean the one on the left? That's a DBT. I looked thru DBT's web page before and we have don't have 3 of 4 of those units in the US. Their web page looks different now but right now, you can see their 4 versions at Electric Vehicles charging solutions DBT CEV, our chargers then click thru the 4 types.

Quick charging solutions for electric vehicles: the new génération does cosmetically look quite similar to the one below. None of the ones in the US have the two rows of buttons (left and right of tall LCD) nor a tall LCD. However, in their pics, the version with the blue start button and green stop button and 3 lights to the right look identical to the Nissan CHAdeMO DC FC below.

I've also never heard of DBT branded infrastructure anywhere in the US, esp. QC.

The one on the right is a Nissan/Sumitomo one: Nissan Quick Charger - CHAdeMO DC Fast Charging for Electric Vehicles.

J-Philipp
DBT is French, and the charger they build is made of NISSAN hardware.

It's a very common unit here in France. Sadly we, French Model S owners, can confirm that they are affected by the dreadful 25 kW capping when using the Tesla adapter.

We have reports that another french brand, STGE power, is working like a charm (steady 122 A) with the Model S. But there's only one in France (Le Mans). """.[/QUOTE]


Thank you for corrections

 

[hiroshiy]

That Yazaki connector is really a shame product from a Japanese company. It is big for you in the States, it is really huge for ladies in Japan, so ladies with Leafs need to ask someone to grab the handle for them! Ladies fingers just never reach the lever.

 

[cwerdna]

@hiroshiy: I've spoken to someone in the about CHAdeMO in Japan and he told me about what they term "intermediate charging" CHAdeMO stations there. It was definitely below 44 kW. I don't recall the typical amount/range he gave, but IIRC (memory foggy), 20-25 kW would fall within there. Not sure what the upper bound of that is.

Know what I'm referring to? (Let's just say this person is in the EV industry and I spoke to him in January 2015.)

 

[jpetcove]

how is the easiest way to find chademo adapters?
will future software updates show chademo chargers as an option?

 

[andydoty]

how is the easiest way to find chademo adapters?
will future software updates show chademo chargers as an option?

I would recommend Plugshare. You can untick the check boxes for everything but DC quick chargers (this will narrow the results to CHAdeMO and Superchargers.

 

[hiroshiy]

@hiroshiy: I've spoken to someone in the about CHAdeMO in Japan and he told me about what they term "intermediate charging" CHAdeMO stations there. It was definitely below 44 kW. I don't recall the typical amount/range he gave, but IIRC (memory foggy), 20-25 kW would fall within there. Not sure what the upper bound of that is.

Know what I'm referring to? (Let's just say this person is in the EV industry and I spoke to him in January 2015.)

Hi, there are 6kW, 10kW, 20kW, 25kW, 30kW, 40kW, 44kW and 50kW stations. Usually chargers less than 40kW are referred to as intermediate chargers Unfortunately many outlets are skimping on power, demand charges and the charger itself, so most of Japanese CHAdeMO installation is 20kW, making them unusable only after a few years, when new cars with bigger batteries are released to market.

 

[cwerdna]

Hi, there are 6kW, 10kW, 20kW, 25kW, 30kW, 40kW, 44kW and 50kW stations. Usually chargers less than 40kW are referred to as intermediate chargers

Interesting... thanks for confirming!

So.. are ALL of those CHAdeMO? I'd imagine 6 kW would be J1772 and possibly 10 kW.

Over in the US, I've never heard of any CHAdeMO below 20 kW. And, unfortunately (?) DC FCs of lower wattage aren't labeled any differently.

Here, we could have 10 kW and 20 kW public charging, but it'd be either via 40 or 80 amp (208/240 volt) J1772 EVSE or Tesla's North American connector via HPWC. Both of those tend to be rare. Most of our public J1772 EVSEs are 30 amp 208/240 volt, more likely 208 volt.

 

[miimura]

When you have a car in Japan like a Leaf or MiEV that only has a 3.3kW on-board charger, the 10kW and 20kW CHAdeMO chargers are a huge improvement. A 80A J1772 EVSE is useless for those cars.

 

[SarahsDad]

First experience with an Eaton CHAdeMo charger - ended up creating a fault and putting it out of order so word to the wise...

Make sure the Eaton charger handle is firmly seated in the Tesla adapter, the green square should "pop out" to show it's locked. The first time this didn't happen, and got a fault error, then an "Out of Order" error. Unfortunately there is no user-configured way to reset the charger - had to call a reference number and they said an electrician would be by to fix it - took two days.

Later went back and charged fine - 380-400V @ 85-95A for around 35kW and 110MPH

 

[hiroshiy]

Interesting... thanks for confirming!

So.. are ALL of those CHAdeMO? I'd imagine 6 kW would be J1772 and possibly 10 kW.

Over in the US, I've never heard of any CHAdeMO below 20 kW. And, unfortunately (?) DC FCs of lower wattage aren't labeled any differently.

Here, we could have 10 kW and 20 kW public charging, but it'd be either via 40 or 80 amp (208/240 volt) J1772 EVSE or Tesla's North American connector via HPWC. Both of those tend to be rare. Most of our public J1772 EVSEs are 30 amp 208/240 volt, more likely 208 volt.

There are actual 10kW CHAdeMO chargers out there. Shopping centers typically install them. Possibly to save some cost.
AFAIK, 6kW chargers are Leaf-to-home units with CHAdeMO, installed both for electric car charging and for emergencies. You can charge a Tesla at 6kW, or you can plug a Leaf and get electricity out. They are installed at some Nissan dealers (for showcasing?) and some public places.