DIL
Member
yeah, the rotation is a pain with directionals. looks like vossen is releasing a graphite color version of these. might look even better.
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Checked Alignment: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
- Thread starter Dreamin
- Start date
yeah, the rotation is a pain with directionals. looks like vossen is releasing a graphite color version of these. might look even better.
Okay, an update...
On Saturday, Tesla released a new set of bolts and associated instruction that permit a level of camber adjustment to the rear wheels for those cars that are out of spec. The service center applied them yesterday to my car.
Here are the results of the alignment. Note that they were able to get my camber reduced from -2.0 degrees and -2.65 degrees (shown above) down to -1.92 and -1.86 degrees (their alignment machine uses degrees & minutes, not decimal degrees). It looks much better and I'll be taking it for my own test drive soon to see how it responds. We will be continuing to watch tire wear and see how it responds after a few more thousand miles.
In a side note, I was told that the alignment specs referenced in these threads (SB-13-34-003, 4/2013) is now listed as "obsolete". I was told this when I asked about the 0.1 degree of toe out for each rear tire being within spec (green), while the SB shows the rear tires being within spec only with 0.2 degree toe IN (+/- 0.05).
EDIT: These numbers are wrong -- see my update on page 15...
On Saturday, Tesla released a new set of bolts and associated instruction that permit a level of camber adjustment to the rear wheels for those cars that are out of spec. The service center applied them yesterday to my car.
Here are the results of the alignment. Note that they were able to get my camber reduced from -2.0 degrees and -2.65 degrees (shown above) down to -1.92 and -1.86 degrees (their alignment machine uses degrees & minutes, not decimal degrees). It looks much better and I'll be taking it for my own test drive soon to see how it responds. We will be continuing to watch tire wear and see how it responds after a few more thousand miles.
In a side note, I was told that the alignment specs referenced in these threads (SB-13-34-003, 4/2013) is now listed as "obsolete". I was told this when I asked about the 0.1 degree of toe out for each rear tire being within spec (green), while the SB shows the rear tires being within spec only with 0.2 degree toe IN (+/- 0.05).
EDIT: These numbers are wrong -- see my update on page 15...
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lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
Do you know if that was the minimum camber permitted by the new bolts on one side and the other side was made to match? Put differently, was that the most negative camber that could be removed with the bolts? If so, that would indicate the bolts are good for about 0.8 degrees of change???
Were the bolts "drop ins" for the existing bolts or did the SC have to modify the chassis to accept the new bolts?
Were the bolts "drop ins" for the existing bolts or did the SC have to modify the chassis to accept the new bolts?
Beavis
Model S Signature 991
When I called about my annual service today, the tech said that they are including alignments as part of it. When I said I didn't think mine needed one, he responded that they will look at it anyway. Now I know why. Thanks Flasher.
DIL
Member
This tells me Tesla is very aware of the issue we've been discussing here and being as proactive as possible about a fix. Hopefully this is a reasonable solution...
As my car was picked up and dropped off, I didn't get a chance to see the details. As described to me when I was told of the bolts last week, they are designed to provide about a half a degree of camber adjustment. As far as I understand, there were no chassis adjustments required. I asked if they were eccentrics, and was told no.
My left rear camber hasn't changed from their last alignment without the bolts, it was -1 deg 55 min last time... what changed mostly was front camber (formerly -1 deg 1 min, now -41 min) and rear camber (formerly -2 deg 39 min, now -1 deg 52 min). Left front camber was turned in just a bit more too, from -38 min to -48 min. The toe is now all within their specs too at .1 deg toe out (each tire) in the rear / .2 deg toe out total and .07 deg total toe in for the front.
Old measurements:
Checked Alignment: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly - Page 9
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the info.
Looking at the data and not knowing how they are using the signs, did they indicate to you that they were putting toe out in the rear (that is, each rear wheel pointing outwards from the centerline of travel)? I'm not sure I have ever seen that in a street car before.
Looking at the data and not knowing how they are using the signs, did they indicate to you that they were putting toe out in the rear (that is, each rear wheel pointing outwards from the centerline of travel)? I'm not sure I have ever seen that in a street car before.
NigelM
Recovering Member
My first set of rears wore evenly and at the 12k service Tesla moved the fronts to the back and put new tires at the front. I knew the rears were getting worn and was expecting to change them fairly soon (car now has almost 21k miles) but I hadn't looked under the car for quite some time. This afternoon one of the rears blew a hole on the inside shoulder and that's when I saw both rears were overly worn on the inside, right down to the cords in fact. Fortunately my wife was only 100yds from home when this happened without warning so it was easy enough to get the car home. Tesla picked up the car tonight already and gave me a loaner......
We'll see what they have to say about alignment I guess:
We'll see what they have to say about alignment I guess:
Yeah, very interesting. The orientation of the +- on the page indicates that the front has toe in and the rear has toe out, but typically you use - for toe in and + for toe out.
I also have never seen toe out specified on any recent car...
I didn't get an explanation. Considering that -0deg02min is considered out of spec, -0deg09min is considered out of spec, but -0deg06min is considered in-spec, it seems that's what they're calling for.
I am happy the cross-camber has been largely eliminated.
- - - Updated - - -
Granted that I haven't done a lot of work with alignments, but I always thought - was toe out and + was toe in.
Wikipedia says I'm right:
Toe (automotive)
:biggrin: I defer to lolachampcar & others before I defer there.
This guide for alignment of heavy duty trucks on a Hunter machine also refers to toe out as -:
http://www.hunter.com/alignment/hd/995T-2.pdf
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Thanks, learned something new today.
Looks to me like Tesla is aiming to keep the tires pointed directly straight ahead under steady power.
The front wheels will pull back a bit due to drag (neutralizing the toe-in) and the rear wheels will push forward a bit due to motor power.
jcaspar
Member
Maybe I missed it but someone was going to post what it felt like driving a car with toe out in the rear. My Models S, when on the freeway, feels like there are two people at each rear corner pushing it back and forth slightly. My car is only 12 days old so I was hoping the alignment problems were fixed. Otherwise drives well.
bareyb
Active Member
Do you guys feel any back end weirdness on Rain Grooved Highways? I drove on one of my local ones today and the back end was shimmying around like crazy. It was more than I've ever noticed before on either of my other cars. It was actually a little disconcerting... On regular roads it seems to ride on rails though… anyone have this experience on Rain Grooved Roads?
The effects of rain grooves seem to depend on the specific tires more than anything. I also suspect wider tires are more susceptible, because my Corvette bucks like crazy on grooved pavement, and its tires make the Model S's look skinny.
bareyb
Active Member
I have the Primacy 19s. I'm glad to hear it's nothing "wrong" with my car. All this alignment talk has me nervous. I even brought in my car to have the alignment checked (it gets a little loose in the back when I floor it) and the Service Advisor took a ride in my car and said it didn't need it. He said I was just feeling the Traction Control doing it's thing... Then today with all the bucking around… made me wonder if maybe he was wrong. Thanks for your input I feel a little better now.
jcaspar
Member
Definitely notice an increase in the side to side shimmy on grooved roads. I have the 19" Primacy's too.
Tacket
Member
We've got some new freeway pavement here in Seattle on my daily route. Smooth, quiet, straight. On the older stuff, loud, wobbly and exposes rattles/squeaks in the interior.
bareyb
Active Member
Good to hear guys. Thanks for the input on the Rain Grooves. I've felt the same thing on my Motorcycles, but wasn't sure if it was normal for a car. My last vehicle was a big SUV so it didn't have much road feel at all.
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