TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Chevrolet Bolt: 55 Pre-Production Cars Made And Exceeding 200 Mile Range Target

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by EVNow, Jun 24, 2015.

  1. EVNow

    EVNow Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,383
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Chevrolet Bolt: 55 Pre-Production Cars Made And Exceeding 200 Miles Range

    Also,

    Looks like they are on track for late 2016 production of Bolt.
     
  2. roblab

    roblab Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,025
    Location:
    Angwin (Napa Valley) CA
  3. linkster

    linkster Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2013
    Messages:
    989
    Location:
    USAX2
    I'll believe it when I see it from the too many keys on your keychain company.
     
  4. eye.surgeon

    eye.surgeon Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2014
    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    California
    Interesting that both Tesla and GM have announced mid-priced 200 mile EVs for 2017 launch. GM is running 50 prototypes as we speak. Tesla so far appears to be early on in the pen and paper design stage. GM is perhaps a year or more ahead and still planning to be to market in 2017. I hate to see Tesla overpromise on yet another delivery date but it seems exceptionally likely.
     
  5. Canuck

    Canuck Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2013
    Messages:
    3,958
    Location:
    South Surrey, BC
    It's really too bad it's only a four seater. I can't believe they are repeating the same mistake they made with the Volt.
     
  6. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2013
    Messages:
    10,375
    Location:
    San Mateo, CA
    It is good news for EV adoption if GM does in fact produce the Bolt in 2016 (or even 2017) and the range and price is as stated in that article.

    But I still can't believe GM is sticking with that terrible name, "Bolt".
     
  7. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2013
    Messages:
    3,399
    Location:
    San Diego
    Tesla is further ahead than pen and paper. As of a while ago, they had clay models (see Ashley Vance's book). The Bolt is a smaller car than the Volt, only seats 4, and DC charger compatibility is likely to be CCS, which will be a big knock against it. I'm expecting the Model 3 to seat 5, have more cargo than the Bolt, have access to the Supercharger network, and be a little bit more expensive. Bolt will beat Model 3 to market.

    All in all, should be interesting!
     
  8. roblab

    roblab Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    2,025
    Location:
    Angwin (Napa Valley) CA
    It would be even better news if they make the battery pack last longer than 5 years, and if they build up some kind of charging infrastructure that lets you fill up 150 miles or so in less than 5 hours.

    Bolt isn't bad. It means eating rapidly without chewing your food. Sort of like the Nova mean "won't go". Good ol' Cheby. They not too bright.

    - - - Updated - - -

    When they priced the bolt, they said it would be "$30,000 after incentives", and the Model 3 was quoted to be "$35,000 before incentives". That makes the Model 3 cheaper than the bolt. Of course, that was then, and things may have changed, but that's what I remember from a couple months ago.
     
  9. the dude

    the dude Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2015
    Messages:
    73
    Location:
    Olympus Mons
    we can be sure that Tesla have done far more than early pen and paper designs, I bet they have built and battery tested packs by now, I bet they know what size motors they will use, they will give us a look at the car early next year and we already know that they were working on clay models a while back, the date may slip but not by much IMO

    also no frunk on the bolt, bad design IMO, the battery should be like the model S
     
  10. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

    Joined:
    May 17, 2009
    Messages:
    18,235
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    Agree. That largely relegates it to a long range commuter car. Still a good step forward for EVs.
     
  11. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2013
    Messages:
    3,399
    Location:
    San Diego
    Yeah, I had forgotten that the Bolt's $30k price had a caveat of "after incentives", which could mean a sticker price all the way up to $40k.
     
  12. Jeff N

    Jeff N Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
    Messages:
    1,132
    The Bolt concept car was 4 seater but GM execs were quoted off the record back then saying the production car would be 5 seat. CCS DC has a ~90 kW charge rate variant that the Bolt will very likely adopt so it could likely charge about as fast as an S60 at a supercharger. Of course, they have to actually install those CCS chargers along interstate highways and that will probably be a slow process unless GM and some of the German CCS-supporting car makers spin up an alternative CCS "supercharging" network consortium.
     
  13. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2015
    Messages:
    1,407
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Let me know when the EPA designates it a 200 mile EV. The original Volt was supposed to get 40 miles EV range, and yet...
     
  14. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    7,050
    I kind of remember that too. I think it shows how much rushing they did on the concept. A lot of people seem to think the concept is 99% representative of the final car (given how GM presented it), but I think the production version will be very different from the concept.

    I'm hoping around the time the Bolt comes out GM will step up the CCS installations (if not public along highways, at least in the same dealer-focused manner as Nissan did with the CHAdeMO method). Curiously Ford has pushed for CCS to be extended to 150kW, but I haven't heard a lot of progress on that.
     
  15. MartinAustin

    MartinAustin Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,449
    Location:
    Austin, Texas USA
    The Model 3 may only be a four-seater in comfort... five passengers in a squeeze.

    I know you're referring to the center console in back, and we all assume Model 3 won't have that. Yes it's sad that Chevy can't seem to figure out a skateboard-type of arrangement.

    Something else that comes to mind is... how will Chevy reconcile this vehicle with the needs to dealers? As the current (despicable) model works, dealers make the majority of their profit from servicing cars, and obviously prefer to sell cars that have required maintenance. If the Chevy Bolt continues in the footsteps of the Tesla Model S, which has no required servicing, then there will be no required servicing for the Chevy Bolt and that's a major gouge out of the profits pie for dealers.

    Will Chevy design the car such that it needs no servicing to facilitate the warranty? While it is in no way the lone controlling factor, the skateboard arrangement would help with this, IMO, and the "transmission tunnel" design makes for more labour at the dealer.
     
  16. WarpedOne

    WarpedOne Supreme Premier

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2006
    Messages:
    2,657
    Location:
    Slovenia, Europe
    I applaud GM for walking the path.
    On the other hand I warn people not to confuse Bolt with Model 3 or get their hopes too high.
    Bolt is only ~10% bigger Spark. Forget 200miles EPA range for 30k without GF economy of scales.
    It may be 200 miles in NEDC, Model S is 300miles EV according to NEDC and only 265mile EV according to EPA.

    I'd guess Bolt will have ~40kWh battery that will offer ~200 miles top range when hipermiling and about 150 miles of day-to-day realistic range.

    Model S is supposed to fight BMW 3 series. Bolt is fighting Spark.
     
  17. dhrivnak

    dhrivnak Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,150
    Location:
    NE Tennessee
    And yet our Volt frequently gets over 40. The EPA is 38 but it is not hard to get 40 miles of EV driving in the Volt
     
  18. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2014
    Messages:
    1,463
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    I'm still hoping that somebody jumps on the Tesla SC bandwagon. GM has been very careful not to disparage Tesla and I keep wondering if they're trying to keep an open door to this type of cooperation.
     
  19. techmaven

    techmaven Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,578
    #19 techmaven, Jun 25, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2015
    When talking about range, we have to remember the #1 design criteria for the Bolt. This vehicle has to qualify for the ZEV credits as a Type III for 4 credits which means 200+ mile UDDS range. UDDS heavily skews to city range, not highway range. If you look at a 2013 Nissan Leaf's range, you see 83 miles of EPA 5 cycle range but 110.9 miles of UDDS range, which corresponds to about 75%. So the Bolt is likely to have 160 miles of EPA range, 210 miles of UDDS range. GM won't put in a bigger battery than necessary to qualify for ZEV Type III credits. They will put in the minimum necessary to hit that credit level.

    Tesla, on the other hand, has a real world problem for range. Whatever the Model 3 is, it needs to be able to reasonably use the Tesla Supercharger network which is usually spaced at 120-140 miles apart. It also has to do it without charging to 100% every time, so the absolute minimum is likely 90% range to hit 140 miles while driving at a constant 65 mph. In order to do that, in the winter, with some battery degradation, we're looking at 205 miles of EPA range for 100% battery, so 90% of that for degradation, then 90% of that for the battery charge level, then 85% of that for winter leaving 141 miles of range. So a Model 3 has to be designed for roughly 205 miles of EPA range. This is what Musk means by 200 miles of "real world" range and also corresponds to the 60 kWh Model S.

    So GM doesn't have an equivalent real world Supercharger network requirement, it has the ZEV credit type III requirement. Which means the Bolt has a minimum of 34-35 kWh of usable battery capacity while the Model 3 has to have an absolute minimum of 45 kWh of usable battery capacity. Tesla is aiming to have that much more battery capacity and still undercut the Bolt in terms of price.
     
  20. Yggdrasill

    Yggdrasill Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2,540
    Location:
    Kongsberg, Norway
    That's assuming GM isn't interested in making an attractive EV, instead opting to make a compliance car.

    I'm leaning towards GM having good intentions. Though I'm not convinced GM has enough batteries in the short term, so something has to give; price, availability or specs.
     

Share This Page