If the heater is on the entire time, then yes, it can use ~5 kWh in an hour. But the heater cycles on and off depending on the ambient temperature and the cabin temperature settings. So it might only run for 25% of time for instance.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)
- Thread starter FredTMC
- Start date
-
- Tags
- bolt chevy Electric Vehicles review
If the heater is on the entire time, then yes, it can use ~5 kWh in an hour. But the heater cycles on and off depending on the ambient temperature and the cabin temperature settings. So it might only run for 25% of time for instance.
NRG uses two types of chargers in California that support CCS. First is ABB which is can output 125 amps on the CCS connector and 120 amps on the CHAdeMO connector (according to their datasheet). The other charger is made by BTC. It has two main differences from the ABB. First it is designed for 120Y208V 3 phase power while the ABB is designed for 277Y480V 3 phase power. Second, it only outputs 100 amps DC. The recently installed SaveMart locations on CA-99 both use the BTC 100 amp chargers. Most of the other locations between SF and LA use the ABB chargers.
Once you get north of Sacramento, the CCS chargers are the pitiful ChargePoint Express 100 units that only output 62 amps DC. Those will probably only average 23kW into a Bolt EV.
That explains it. That makes many more CCS stations worse... they can't even deliver 40 kW for a Bolt, and average 35 kW or worse.
This goes back to being serious about electrification. GM crippled the Bolt, which is puzzling since the hardest part is something they nailed... the efficiency in both Wh/mile and cost for a big battery. Well, we will also have to see if they nailed the cell longevity. Maybe the new chemistry is not particularly tolerant of high charging c-rates? That seems puzzling for a NMC chemistry though.
ChargePoint is in the process of getting regulatory approvals for their 125kW stations. When those are installed we will know the actual capability of the Bolt EV. I suspect that the ChargePoint station will output up to 250 amps and the Bolt EV will accept something between 160 amps and 200 amps. That guess is based on the references to 80kW in their manual. 500V @ 160A (charger max voltage) is 80kW and 400V @ 200A (battery pack max voltage) is also 80kW.
The Bolt owner in L.A. in the blog post I linked to earlier is soliciting suggestions for where he can go this weekend to compare to the L.A. to S.F. trip he just took. He says there is not enough charging infrastructure in place to drive from L.A. to Las Vegas:
[URL=http://s882.photobucket.com/user/RubberToe420/media/BoltVegas_zpsrjekfipa.jpg.html]
[/URL]
McRat and Bro1999, better head over to that site lickety split and get his head on right. It's bad enough us Tesla Fanboys are making bad stuff up about the Bolt, now even the owners are jumping ship !
RT
[URL=http://s882.photobucket.com/user/RubberToe420/media/BoltVegas_zpsrjekfipa.jpg.html]
[/URL]McRat and Bro1999, better head over to that site lickety split and get his head on right. It's bad enough us Tesla Fanboys are making bad stuff up about the Bolt, now even the owners are jumping ship !
RT
It's alright, I'll just congratulate the Woz instead on his upgrade.The Bolt owner in L.A. in the blog post I linked to earlier is soliciting suggestions for where he can go this weekend to compare to the L.A. to S.F. trip he just took. He says there is not enough charging infrastructure in place to drive from L.A. to Las Vegas:
McRat and Bro1999, better head over to that site lickety split and get his head on right. It's bad enough us Tesla Fanboys are making bad stuff up about the Bolt, now even the owners are jumping ship !
RT
It's alright, I'll just congratulate the Woz instead on his upgrade.
But seriously though, until they get that DCFC in at Baker, you really couldn't get from L.A. to Vegas unless you resorted to L2 somewhere on that stretch from Victorville to Vegas outskirts. Plugshare shows that Whiskey Petes in Primm has a Chargepoint L2 on site. That would make it doable in two stops from L.A. Might even win enough at the casino to pay for the electricity.
RT
If it can take 160 amps, it should be able to charge at maybe 55-57 kW given that Jack's Bolt never reached 45 kW on a 125A EVSE. That implies that the tapering happened around 350-360 volts.
But seriously though, until they get that DCFC in at Baker, you really couldn't get from L.A. to Vegas unless you resorted to L2 somewhere on that stretch from Victorville to Vegas outskirts. Plugshare shows that Whiskey Petes in Primm has a Chargepoint L2 on site. That would make it doable in two stops from L.A. Might even win enough at the casino to pay for the electricity.
RT
It is 188 miles between the two CCS DCFC's at Victorville and Las Vegas, but there is a huge grade that climbs 4000 feet and terminates at 130 miles from Victorville. Right before that climb is a 14-50 at Baker.
Would it make it without spending an hour at Baker? That is anybody's guess. I've went up a good grade, roundtrip all freeway in a "53 mile" EPA Volt, when the distances equaled 64 miles, but that is working the trapeze with a safety net that the Bolt lacks.
Will a Bolt Hypermile on the freeway? From that SF-LA return run Blog, it looks possible.
Last edited:
We can refine these numbers a bit by considering his experience at the Bakersfield DCFC. He recharged from 15% to 65% SoC in 39 minutes. Average power during that cycle works out to be 46kW [(.65-.15)*60kWh/(39min/60min)]. Peak power could be ~3 kW above that average. Let's assume a 49kW peak at 125A, yielding a CV taper starting at 392V.
Extrapolating that to a 160A charger would be a peak power of ~63kW. If it can take 200A, the peak would be ~78kW.
Unlikely that the taper begins at 392 volts. That far too high. In this post:
Bolt EV Blog: LA to SF: First stop
The charge rate at 75% SoC was 23 kW according to the car. That's pretty far from the 43 kW he was showing at ~20% SoC.
Help me understand your comment. Are you saying that the taper is beginning before 65%? I was assuming the taper began above 65% SoC and the 39 minutes of charging were current limited.
If the average is 46kW, the peak must certainly be higher.
Woohoo, the dealer finally got my Bolt! On a truck to MD on Thursday.
diamond.g
Active Member
Too bad Katie's cars and coffee is off season right now...Woohoo, the dealer finally got my Bolt! On a truck to MD on Thursday.
TonyWilliams
Active Member
There is no way that the battery will hold 125 amps to 392v in a 395-403v max pack.
The maximum charge rate is either 125 amps or 200 amps (or possible some value between 125 and 200). Those are the established public charge rate norms. I strongly suspect that GM has left it at 125 amps, which is the maximum charger rate for virtually every non-TESLA DC charger. Even if the maximum were 126-200 amps, there isn't any charger yet that can do it. That means that a fully depleted battery of about 300 volts and a fully charged battery of 400 volts, the charge rate with CCS Combo 1 or Combo 2 is likely:
a. 0% SOC ----- 125A * 300V = 37kW max
b. 25% SOC --- 125A * 340A = 42kW max
b. 50% SOC --- 125A * 370V = 46kW max
c. 75% SOC --- 125A * 385V = 48kW max (somewhere between 75% and 90%, amps start reducing)
d. 90% SOC ---- 63A * 390V = 25kW max
e. 100% SOC ---- 0A * 400V = 0kW
All data above is merely an educated guess
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
I made a round-trip journey recently; outbound was clear weather, driven in a hurry, weather was fine but we were late leaving so I set cruise control for 85 on the highway. Return was torrential (for us!) rain, driven economically.
I had an additional short local journey before (and at the end of the trip) to pick up additional passengers (driven fast outbound, and very economically on return as SOC was low). Started with 100% charge, arrived with 50% charge, wasn't worried because the return journey would be more leisurely but I didn't know it was going to be raining and I got home with only a couple of miles to spare.
Outbound cruise = 80 MPH, weather fine, temperatures 12.5C / 55F, average speed over 81 miles was 60 MPH, 433 Wh/Mile, 1h23m, Several parts of the journey had slow traffic, so I would also have been accelerating a fair bit as gaps opened up (log for several sections shows speed peaking at 90 MPH).
Return Cruise = 70 MPH, weather heavy rain, temperature 11C / 52F, average speed over 81 miles of 55 MPH, 465 Wh/Mile, 1h29m no significant slow traffic.
Google Maps says that the highway section is 58.5 miles and has a typical driving time of 63m (speed limit here is 70 MPH). It took me 50 minutes outbound and 55 minutes return
Dunno if that says anything (clearly same cruise speed for out and back would have made comparison easier), but subjectively dry aggressive driving at 80 MPH was exceeded by wet consistent driving at 70 MPH.
Looking across all his charge records, that one seems to be an anamoly. Yes, taper appears to be quite strong by 75% SOC in the Bolt, which is quite dissappointing. I would have expected zero overall taper on a measly 50/62.5 CCS EVSE at 80% given the low charge rate and increasing voltage. Maybe after some period where the Chevy engineers can assess the battery degradation and if that checks out, they can adjust the taper.
It could just be that GM is being conservative since they are exposing a much larger useable capacity. Does anyone really know the nominal versus useable capacity of the pack? I do hope that Idaho National Labs AVT gets the funding to buy a Bolt and run their battery testing.
GM officials have been on record saying the Bolt uses "almost all" of its battery's capacity. I would be surprised if the overall size is more than 3-4 kWh larger than the usable capacity, which seems to be right around 60 kWh.
Once I get my Bolt, I'll be able to do some extensive testing.
Reeler
Decade of Pure EV Driving
Tesla should make a Supercharger to CSS adapter. Make them serialized so that we can be charged for our usage. Tesla could "own" the distance travel market. It would make build-out of more stations easy. Even if they charged similar to gasoline pricing, folks would pay since they have a monopoly right now.
Similar threads
