Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)

[essmd]

Optional Satellite Radio
BMW X6 $62k, satellite radio is part of the $1,550 premium package
Build Your Own BMW - BMW North America
Home - BMW North America

Air suspension with no ride adjustment
2017 Range Rover $85k has air suspension $85k, but from user manual, no ride adjustments (only height)
Land Rover Owner Information

From what I can tell, the ride adjustment is a factor of damper/shock settings, with nothing to do with air suspension (air suspension mainly is for height adjustment and replaces springs). The car needs to have electronic damper control for that, and this is independent of air suspension (you can have a car with ride settings using standard springs, for example Porsche's PASM, and vice versa like in this Range Rover).

Noise
Quick google found this spec:
2012 Model S P85 $107k
Sound level @ idle (dB) 35.4
@ Full throttle (dB) 64.2
@ 70 mph cruise (dB) 61.2
2012 Tesla Model S Road Test Specs | Edmunds

2013 BMW M5 $92k:
Sound level @ idle (dB) 49.0
@ Full throttle (dB) 82.1
@ 70 mph cruise (dB) 63.0
2013 BMW M5 Road Test Specs | Edmunds

Actually economy cars tend to be more fully loaded at the same price than a premium car. A 3 series at $35k is a stripped model, but a $35k Chevy is going to be loaded. The standard equipment levels are not necessarily the differentiator for a premium vehicle.

Well, you sure got me... but my points are still valid...

Actually the type of air shock selected by the auto manufacturer determines the ability to control the ride, I discussed this with a Tesla Service Tech, and he showed me different models from the same high-end shock vendor. He said the Tesla shocks are more expensive, but the other types do allow selectable rides and require additional mechanisms, so it's cheaper to have the type Tesla uses... so Tesla and Land Rover vs all others...Hmmmm, I miss the ability to select.

As far as noise, I am referring to the Model X, which has much more road and wind noise than the Models S. due to FWD gaskets and seals, plus the huge windshield.

Title needs to be amended to 200 miles round trip range.

You better have a well thought out plan and plenty of time on your hands if you taking the Bolt 200 miles away from home.

Can't just talk to the Bolt and go "navigate to super charger" and be good to go 30 minutes later to whatever you are going.

That is the one massive benefit of the Model 3 over the Bolt... the SC network. It's bad enough driving a Tesla on the road requires the increase of at least 10% or more additional travel time for charging, presuming you can go the most direct routes, but it's gotta be more than twice that for the Bolt...even the rare Chademo chargers are less than half or worse than a SC charging rate.

 

[WannabeOwner]

It's bad enough driving a Tesla on the road requires the increase of at least 10% or more additional travel time for charging,

I'll take it - I can sit in the car and do my emails, instead of racing to my destination and then doing them there.

Also, I'll take it in return for not having to stand and pump smelly fuel into my car once a week and then (in the UK) stand in line to pay. 5 minutes per refuel is rare here, 10 minutes more likely. That's 8 hours a year that I can spend at Superchargers instead (when i'm doing something else anyway, not standing-pumping or standing-in-line), but I appreciate its not a direct comparison.

 

[FlatSix911]

Way to go GM ... GM announces completed production of 130 autonomous Chevy Bolt EVs

Earlier this year, GM announced that it is growing its fleet of autonomous Chevy Bolt EV prototypes for its ‘GM Cruise’ startup.

Now the automaker announced the completion of the first batch of 130 prototypes at its Orion Assembly Plant located in Orion Township, Michigan. They claim that this achievement made them “the first company to assemble self-driving test vehicles in a mass-production facility” using “mass-production methods”.

Of course, there are different ways to look at this claim. Waymo worked with Chrysler to integrate its sensor suite on their test vehicles, which use the mass-produced Pacifica Hybrid, and technically, Tesla’s vehicles are being mass-produced with what they claim to be all the necessary hardware for fully self-driving

 

[wycolo]

t = towing capacity of the Chevy Bolt, based on the Model X rating.

5k lb / 4800 lb = t / 3800 lb
t = 4000 pounds
--

 

[Zaphod]

t = towing capacity of the Chevy Bolt, based on the Model X rating.

5k lb / 4800 lb = t / 3800 lb
t = 4000 pounds
--

Not sure if you are serious or not, but...

 

[McRat]

Saw my first Bolt "in the wild" today. I had seen a pre-production Bolt indoors, and I expected it to look smaller outdoors. More like a Honda fit. I was surprised that it look more substantial than I anticipated.

I can see people wanting this car if they are interested in a small SUV. While the Bolt is not really an SUV, but neither is the model X. I plan to take a test drive.

The Fit and the Bolt have a similar shape and purpose, with 3 significant variations, pricing, width of rear seating, and passing performance.

2017 Fit, $17.5k MSRP Base
Rear Hiproom: 45.1"
Passing 30-50 mph: 4.6 sec
Passing 50-70 mph: 6.1 sec

2017 Bolt, $37.5k MSRP Base, after CA/GM programs, $22k base:
Rear Hiproom: 50.8"
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 2.5 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 3.5 sec

So if you actually want to haul 5 adults, the Bolt is a better choice. But you are paying $10k for the better performance and room.

:

 

[wycolo]

The Bolt would be good for a 4000 pound rating if it had those same incredibly good frame rail mount points found in the S and X. Alas, U-Haul wasn't able to get sufficient bite into the chassis so limit their hitch to 1-1/4" receiver rated for 2000 pounds. Compare that to their 2012 Subaru Forester 2" hitch rated at 4000 pounds. Chevy just did not engineer sufficient meat in the proper places for a 4k hitch that the brakes and wheel loading certainly would support. Lets hope that Tesla gives the Model 3 enough steel to max its tow rating to 4k.

Kudos to @Zaphod for the public service announcement!! Someday I'll find a Bolt in the wild.
--

 

[McRat]

t = towing capacity of the Chevy Bolt, based on the Model X rating.

5k lb / 4800 lb = t / 3800 lb
t = 4000 pounds
--

The towing capacity of the Bolt is 0 lbs. There is a receiver for it, but it is intended just to haul bicycles, skis, etc.

The 2017 Forester has a 1,500lb tow rating. The X has a 500lb tongue weight cap assuming you are not at GVWR already.

Always tow with the assumption you will have trouble, and you are less likely to have trouble. Towing is one of the most dangerous things you can do on a highway, especially in the mountains, so select your equipment and prep accordingly. Most people should not be allowed to tow regardless of the rig. They are too dumb to do it safely but there is no law to stop them.

Wait for it! 0m45s

 

[wycolo]

> The 2017 Forester has a 1,500lb tow rating. [McRat]

That's most likely from Subaru themselves who rated the 2012 model at 2000lb. But when U-Haul rates their hitch at 4000lb for that same car then you get a better sense of the car's real towing capability and why you should not have the dealer install their hitch but go to U-Haul instead. And yes, towing a rig is indeed a high art form.
--

 

[McRat]

> The 2017 Forester has a 1,500lb tow rating. [McRat]

That's most likely from Subaru themselves who rated the 2012 model at 2000lb. But when U-Haul rates their hitch at 4000lb for that same car then you get a better sense of the car's real towing capability and why you should not have the dealer install their hitch but go to U-Haul instead. And yes, towing a rig is indeed a high art form.
--

I've towed ~50,000lb with a production street pickup. I have safety equipment and a lot of training to do that. Spectators/officials get killed if I screw up. That doesn't change the safety margin necessary to deal with all kinds of highway conditions. I've been coast to coast, even up through Vail, with a 13,000lb custom race trailer. Knock on wood, not a single incident in about 50-100,000 miles worth. Not a flat trailer tire, or lost bearing.

No, Uhaul is not responsible if your brakes overheat down a 6% mountain grade because the solenoid or wiring failed in your trailer. Maybe you won't kill, maybe you will. What the heck, you only live once.

Going by your reasoning it is clever to tow 2000lb with a Bolt since the tongue rating is 200lb. No it is not.

PS - I would tear a U-Haul hitch off like it was paper mache. I've bent 2.5" receivers in competition.

 

[Jeff N]

I would think the Bolt ought to be fully capable of towing a classic teardrop camper to a national park. Those usually use a 1.25" receiver and have a tongue weight of around 100 pounds and a towing weight of around 1,000 pounds.

Like any EV, the Bolt's friction brakes are fully rated for stopping the car alone by themselves but normally you would also have up to 70 kW of regen braking available as well. With 150 kW of motor output (nearly twice a similar weight Nissan LEAF), the Bolt should also be able to tow that up mountain roads without excessive strain.

Some day I plan to test that theory.

 

[Zaphod]

The Bolt would be good for a 4000 pound rating if it had those same incredibly good frame rail mount points found in the S and X. Alas, U-Haul wasn't able to get sufficient bite into the chassis so limit their hitch to 1-1/4" receiver rated for 2000 pounds. Compare that to their 2012 Subaru Forester 2" hitch rated at 4000 pounds. Chevy just did not engineer sufficient meat in the proper places for a 4k hitch that the brakes and wheel loading certainly would support. Lets hope that Tesla gives the Model 3 enough steel to max its tow rating to 4k.

Kudos to @Zaphod for the public service announcement!! Someday I'll find a Bolt in the wild.
--

Not to continue the trailer and towing talk further digressing off topic, but there are far more things involved in determining tow rating than having "enough steel". I'm not going to go in-depth here, but you can research on your own. Also, the S and X do not have frame rails (not counting the small "rails" at the front which are mostly for crumple zone), they are uni-body.

If the 3 truly has an official factory tow option, I can guarantee it won't be more than 2000lbs. Lastly, not sure how much credence I would put in taking U-Hauls tow rating for the hitches. They don't the make the hitches, they are just rebranded from other suppliers. If any issue happened while towing that was caused by exceeding OEM tow rating, the OEM is not going to cover it just because some third party said it could have higher tow rating.

Anyway, let's get back on topic of the Bolt...

 

[wycolo]

Just pushing back on one item of nonsense, U-Haul *does* design and build its own hitches at its shop near Tempe, Az. If you deliver your brand-new-design car to them they will create a hitch for it, and give you a free hitch for your trouble. They did that for the Roadster but apparently no one yet has loaned them a Model S. Likely they determined Tesla-folk to be much less trailer oriented than Subaru-folk, for example, and I tend to agree.

Remove your Model S rear bumper skin and observe massive mount points* on each side for rear crossmember - you will be impressed. This is how the X has a 500/5000lb hitch and with luck the Model 3 will be similarly equipped. Chevy engineers dropped the ball on this one big time. [frown]

Yes, the beauty of towing with an EV is all the extra braking afforded by Regen. You can wind down mountains without using your brakes at all, keeping them nice and cool for any emergencies.

* search here for _trailer hitch_
--

 

[McRat]

...
Remove your Model S rear bumper skin and observe massive mount points* on each side for rear crossmember - you will be impressed. This is how the X has a 500/5000lb hitch and with luck the Model 3 will be similarly equipped. Chevy engineers dropped the ball on this one big time. [frown]

--

The 8 passenger Traverse tows 5,200lb for $30k. Buy a Bolt EV also to commute with, and stick $20,000 in your pocket for gas when necessary (when compared to a black MX75 with 7 seats and towing).

If the Traverse isn't your cuppa, the 9 passenger 'Burb tows 8,200lb with lots of room and amenities and tow a Bolt EV home with it using the savings.

Exactly how to do you think Chevy blew it? By not charging $51,000 for towing?

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

The 8 passenger Traverse tows 5,200lb for $30k. Buy a Bolt EV also to commute with, and stick $20,000 in your pocket for gas when necessary (when compared to a black MX75 with 7 seats and towing).

If the Traverse isn't your cuppa, the 9 passenger 'Burb tows 8,200lb with lots of room and amenities and tow a Bolt EV home with it using the savings.

Exactly how to do you think Chevy blew it? By not charging $51,000 for towing?

You're proffering a gas-guzzler as a solution to your EV's lack of towing support?! Don't be so obtuse!

Even my leaf has a 2" receiver!

 

[McRat]

You're proffering a gas-guzzler as a solution to your EV's lack of towing support?! Don't be so obtuse!

Even my leaf has a 2" receiver!

I tow on a routine basis. In my experience with various platforms, expect 50-75% of rated range when towing.
Even if a Leaf is rated for towing which it is not, the range is not going to allow you to treat it like a normal tow platform.
Nor would I consider 150 mile towing range acceptable even for an ICE. I certainly would not buying a Bolt EV for towing even if was rated for towing.

So choose an EV for towing if it fits your needs. It would not fit mine, even for a light dirtbike trailer since my favorite riding area is a 4000' climb 100 miles into the desert. But usually I tow over 10,000lb.

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

I tow on a routine basis. In my experience with various platforms, expect 50-75% of rated range when towing.
Even if a Leaf is rated for towing which it is not, the range is not going to allow you to treat it like a normal tow platform.
Nor would I consider 150 mile towing range acceptable even for an ICE. I certainly would not buying a Bolt EV for towing even if was rated for towing.

So choose an EV for towing if it fits your needs. It would not fit mine, even for a light dirtbike trailer since my favorite riding area is a 4000' climb 100 miles into the desert. But usually I tow over 10,000lb.

So because the leaf won't work for you as a tow vehicle, it won't work for me, and therefore Nissan wasted their money in having a frame that accepts a tow receiver, because that's how Chevy decided, right?

Edit: as wycolo said, Chevy blew it.

 

[McRat]

So because the leaf won't work for you as a tow vehicle, it won't work for me, and therefore Nissan wasted their money in having a frame that accepts a tow receiver, because that's how Chevy decided, right?

Edit: as wycolo said, Chevy blew it.

No, your Leaf doesn't have the ABS braking, stability control, or the chassis eng'd or calibrated for towing. Nor does it have a frame or significant aft chassis structure. It's a unibody that was not designed for heavy weight aft of the rear axle.

In your eyes, I can tow 2000lb or more with pretty much any car sold since most can be fitted with a receiver. I've seen people tow with motorcycles and Corvettes. To put things in perspective, a Cadillac CT6 is over 4,000lb with a very rigid RWD/AWD structure, very large brakes, high payload (1,200lb), and 400hp/tq. It is rated at 1,000 lbs towing. Would I be safer in a Leaf towing 2,000lb or a CT6?

 

[wycolo]

> Even my leaf has a 2" receiver! [oil4asphaltonly]

UHaul only lists a 1500lb hitch for the 2012-2017 Nissan Leaf, and it has a 1-1/4" receiver. So curious what you have there. Be sure its the rating of the hitch and not the receiver/ball piece.

Hey, the Bolt beats out the Leaf on another metric!! Actually you can do quite a bit with 2000lb esp using wire mesh trailers where you aren't hauling a heavy wooden floor that might not be needed and they are light enough to stand up against a garage wall to save space.

I tried to look up the Hyundai Ionique for a UHaul hitch but nobody has made one yet, so UHaul gives the offer:

**************************************************************************************************************************************************
If U-Haul doesn't have a hitch for your vehicle, nobody does!

Your vehicle requires a custom-built hitch which we will gladly fabricate for you. If you are able to bring your vehicle to our Tempe, AZ Research & Development facility we'll provide you with a free U-Haul custom trailer hitch, including free installation, and a lifetime unlimited warranty in exchange for the use of your vehicle to fabricate the trailer hitch. We'll need the vehicle for two to three days. If you are interested in this offer please complete the form below and we'll contact you to schedule your appointment. This offer is only valid until one customer per vehicle can fulfill our requirements.
****************************************************************************************************************************************************

Nice to know they are still in operation!!
--

 

[wycolo]

@McRat:

UHaul builds a Class 2 hitch for the 2017 CT6 Plug-In with 3500lb rating. Enough apples for ya?
--