The weight on the Bolt is truly amazing considering the size of the battery and the strength of the chassis. IIHS weighed the rollover sample Nissan Leaf at 3,339 lbs, which has both a lower peak strength and strength to weight ratio.
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Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)
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The weight on the Bolt is truly amazing considering the size of the battery and the strength of the chassis. IIHS weighed the rollover sample Nissan Leaf at 3,339 lbs, which has both a lower peak strength and strength to weight ratio.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Another factor is unless that crash is into a solid wall, the heavier/larger car will tend to do better in a front crash, even with the same rating. That's why IIHS specifically has a warning not to compare front crash ratings among different car categories, which is exactly what @Jeff N did (Bolt is Small Car, Model S is Large Luxury Car, two size classes up).
"Frontal crash test results can't be used to compare vehicle performance across weight classes. That's because the kinetic energy involved in the moderate overlap and small overlap frontal tests depends on the speed and weight of the test vehicle. Thus, the crash is more severe for heavier vehicles."
Frontal crash tests
"Small overlap front, moderate overlap front and head restraint ratings should be compared only among vehicles of similar weight. Side, roof strength, front crash prevention, headlights and LATCH ratings can be compared across vehicle categories."
Safety ratings
Safety ratings
This is generally true, however as JohnSnowNW pointed out, Tesla's issue with the small overlap test was mostly or entirely about seat belt design.
In an actual small offset crash between an S60 and a Bolt EV it is still quite possible that the Bolt EV driver would have fared better (with an S60 prior to the seatbelt issue being corrected).
Weight is usually an advantage when not crashing into solid fixed objects but some of this effect has also been clouded by the fact that heavier vehicles have often been SUVs that ride higher than lighter weight cars and tended to strike cars in areas above the bumper line that are not ideally protected against.
The Bolt EV, with a ~3550 pound weight is similar in mass to a conventional lighter full-size or heavier mid-size sedan due to the battery pack and with its test ratings it is likely among the safest car models on the road even when accounting for significant weight differences.
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stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
With an as tested weight of 4410 lbs for the S60, the weight advantage is roughly 1.23x between the two vehicles. It is possible the Bolt might fare better in an small offset crash between the two, but then a crash between two deformable vehicles, with the given weight advantage (which would translate to more forces for the Bolt), may not necessarily trigger the same seat belt problem. This is especially given the moderate overlap didn't have that problem in the Model S.
The small overlap test itself is more like crashing into a tree or a utility pole.
The key point is that the results can't be compared because it becomes guess work which one is better.
I generally agree, but a 1.23 weight ratio between the S60 and Bolt EV implies crash forces would be around 1.23x higher in the Bolt EV.
Forget about the small overlap test for a moment. If you scale the Bolt EV's reported moderate overlap crash test injury force measurements and then compare them with the S60's numbers the Bolt EV still comes out looking substantially better on some measurements, similar on others, and only noticeably somewhat worse on foot acceleration.
Yes, it's all a guess unless you actually smash the two together to see what happens. Hopefully that won't happen anytime soon but someday it may.
I think the only thing we can really say is that the Bolt EV crash test results are pretty good and together with it's ~3,550 pound weight it should be among the safer cars on the road despite being short.
mtndrew1
Active Member
This weekend I rented a Bolt EV Premier through the Maven app (which is pretty awful) in LA. The car was in a lot on Sunset Blvd with at least four L2 and one L3 CCS ChargePoint connections. The car was priced at $12/hour and I used it to take myself and two friends to Oxnard to visit the Mullin Auto Museum which, incidentally, was fantastic.
I'll start with the good stuff. The Bolt has an enormous amount of power (not as much as a Tesla, but still) and far exceeded any acceleration needs I could want, though I'm not an aggressive driver. Particularly in sport mode the car would just rocket forward and knock everyone's heads into the headrests; it even chirps the tires from a rolling start. I can't imagine anyone being disappointed with acceleration at any speed in the Bolt.
The off-throttle regen in L combined with the regen paddle on the back of the steering wheel were the best I've experienced in an EV. It's as strong as the i3's setup without the abrupt transition during unexpected events (cruise control cancellation, for example). The regen is perfectly dialed in and I immediately missed it when I went back to my Soul EV.
The Bolt's body structure felt taught at rigid and I found the ride/handling balance to be pretty ideal. The car rode firmly without being harsh and the suspension was very predictable with no bobbing, skittishness, or jitters. Whacking a big pothole sent no reverberations through the structure and the car had no rattles, though it only had 800 miles on the odometer. There was more tire and road noise than in my Kia but I didn't find it objectionable.
The Bolt's range was extremely liberating, but this would be nothing new to Tesla drivers. Having so much battery capacity on board meant I didn't think twice about keeping up with traffic, cranking the HVAC, or taking a detour for lunch. We drove with the flow of freeway traffic in comfort and didn't even use up half of the battery for the entire round trip. I could have done the trip twice whereas my Kia would have required a 10 minute quick charge to accomplish the same trip once without anxiety.
Wrapping up the positives, the stereo was fine, visibility was fine, and the instrumentation was clear and easily reconfigurable. There was plenty of space inside for three adults and our associated detritus.
Now for the rest. The seats, my god the seats. Even with only 800 miles on the clock the driver's seat was literally coming apart at the seams (see image). My back still aches a little today from yesterday's trip. It felt like two giant plastic shoehorns were digging into my ribcage and my hips were pinched by the unnecessarily-narrow seat bottom. Once we got to Oxnard, my front and rear seat passengers were bargaining with one another as to who had to endure the front passenger seat on the way home. This was the true deal-breaker for having this car as my "Model 3 isn't ready/out of my price range" backup when my lease ends this Fall. The seats were mysteriously terrible as the seats in the Volt are supportive and comfortable.
The interior materials and fit were terrible. None of the plastic bits in the dash lined up correctly and my passenger (also a car guy) noted that the driver's door card was mismatched to the dash in an entirely different way than the passenger's and the gaps were uneven. Every surface was poorly-grained hard plastic with exposed flash lines and ill fitments. The chintzy door plastic was already scuffed to hell on a nearly brand new car. The infotainment screen was gigantic but it froze up on us twice and was tilted at such an angle as to wash out in the sunlight for much of the trip. The screen was positioned too far left in the dash meaning that while observing it from my natural driving position the right side of the steering wheel was blocking the left side of the screen. The neck gyrations needed to simultaneously see the whole screen and counteract the washing out from the sun took away from the novelty of its size and graphics.
The gearshift was bizarre and uncomfortable for no particular reason; the center armrest was very high which meant I had to cant my wrist down to manipulate the monostable device. Selecting Reverse was particularly difficult (wrist angled down, hold button on left of stalk with thumb, push up and then over to left while holding button in). All day I kept inadvertently selecting Neutral because the unnatural wrist position wouldn't let me hold the side button in while going up-and-left. Totally bizarre design (as it is in Cadillacs and BMWs, but at least the armrest isn't too high in those). The rearview mirror had a feature where you could enable an LCD screen instead of a reflective surface but I found it extremely distracting and unnatural, though I suppose this feature's value is specific to the user. As an aside, I enjoy having the rearview camera in a Tesla enabled while driving but it's a different experience in the Bolt's implementation. As far as the Bolt's rearview camera it looked like the resolution was about 320x240 spread across an 11" screen; totally pixellated and blurry. The around-view camera was okay but I prefer the sonar sensors other cars (including mine) have. There were no rear-seat vents and tons of glass area meaning we had to blast the air in the front to get any A/C to the passenger in the back.
In summary I had the Bolt on my "maybe" list in case of no Model 3 availability but the beauty of being able to go long distances was overshadowed by the discomfort of spending any time in the car and the appalling interior materials in a car with a $43,500 sticker. There was no ACC or ventilated seats or sunroof or power seats and the climate control was single zone. The wipers were not rain sensing and there was no self-parking feature. The Bolt EV feels so very "almost there" in so many respects. Throw the Volt seats into it, but in a rear air conditioning vent, make ACC available, put a handful of soft surfaces into the interior, assemble it properly and, with a price cut, it would be quite competitive. The bones of the car are very solid but the execution is poor. The price is just too high.
TL;DR I rented a Bolt EV and the basics of the car were excellent and the range was liberating. It had great power, a solid structure, and excellent ride/handling. The good bones were let down by a lousy interior with painful seats and a very high price for the feature content.
I'll start with the good stuff. The Bolt has an enormous amount of power (not as much as a Tesla, but still) and far exceeded any acceleration needs I could want, though I'm not an aggressive driver. Particularly in sport mode the car would just rocket forward and knock everyone's heads into the headrests; it even chirps the tires from a rolling start. I can't imagine anyone being disappointed with acceleration at any speed in the Bolt.
The off-throttle regen in L combined with the regen paddle on the back of the steering wheel were the best I've experienced in an EV. It's as strong as the i3's setup without the abrupt transition during unexpected events (cruise control cancellation, for example). The regen is perfectly dialed in and I immediately missed it when I went back to my Soul EV.
The Bolt's body structure felt taught at rigid and I found the ride/handling balance to be pretty ideal. The car rode firmly without being harsh and the suspension was very predictable with no bobbing, skittishness, or jitters. Whacking a big pothole sent no reverberations through the structure and the car had no rattles, though it only had 800 miles on the odometer. There was more tire and road noise than in my Kia but I didn't find it objectionable.
The Bolt's range was extremely liberating, but this would be nothing new to Tesla drivers. Having so much battery capacity on board meant I didn't think twice about keeping up with traffic, cranking the HVAC, or taking a detour for lunch. We drove with the flow of freeway traffic in comfort and didn't even use up half of the battery for the entire round trip. I could have done the trip twice whereas my Kia would have required a 10 minute quick charge to accomplish the same trip once without anxiety.
Wrapping up the positives, the stereo was fine, visibility was fine, and the instrumentation was clear and easily reconfigurable. There was plenty of space inside for three adults and our associated detritus.
Now for the rest. The seats, my god the seats. Even with only 800 miles on the clock the driver's seat was literally coming apart at the seams (see image). My back still aches a little today from yesterday's trip. It felt like two giant plastic shoehorns were digging into my ribcage and my hips were pinched by the unnecessarily-narrow seat bottom. Once we got to Oxnard, my front and rear seat passengers were bargaining with one another as to who had to endure the front passenger seat on the way home. This was the true deal-breaker for having this car as my "Model 3 isn't ready/out of my price range" backup when my lease ends this Fall. The seats were mysteriously terrible as the seats in the Volt are supportive and comfortable.
The interior materials and fit were terrible. None of the plastic bits in the dash lined up correctly and my passenger (also a car guy) noted that the driver's door card was mismatched to the dash in an entirely different way than the passenger's and the gaps were uneven. Every surface was poorly-grained hard plastic with exposed flash lines and ill fitments. The chintzy door plastic was already scuffed to hell on a nearly brand new car. The infotainment screen was gigantic but it froze up on us twice and was tilted at such an angle as to wash out in the sunlight for much of the trip. The screen was positioned too far left in the dash meaning that while observing it from my natural driving position the right side of the steering wheel was blocking the left side of the screen. The neck gyrations needed to simultaneously see the whole screen and counteract the washing out from the sun took away from the novelty of its size and graphics.
The gearshift was bizarre and uncomfortable for no particular reason; the center armrest was very high which meant I had to cant my wrist down to manipulate the monostable device. Selecting Reverse was particularly difficult (wrist angled down, hold button on left of stalk with thumb, push up and then over to left while holding button in). All day I kept inadvertently selecting Neutral because the unnatural wrist position wouldn't let me hold the side button in while going up-and-left. Totally bizarre design (as it is in Cadillacs and BMWs, but at least the armrest isn't too high in those). The rearview mirror had a feature where you could enable an LCD screen instead of a reflective surface but I found it extremely distracting and unnatural, though I suppose this feature's value is specific to the user. As an aside, I enjoy having the rearview camera in a Tesla enabled while driving but it's a different experience in the Bolt's implementation. As far as the Bolt's rearview camera it looked like the resolution was about 320x240 spread across an 11" screen; totally pixellated and blurry. The around-view camera was okay but I prefer the sonar sensors other cars (including mine) have. There were no rear-seat vents and tons of glass area meaning we had to blast the air in the front to get any A/C to the passenger in the back.
In summary I had the Bolt on my "maybe" list in case of no Model 3 availability but the beauty of being able to go long distances was overshadowed by the discomfort of spending any time in the car and the appalling interior materials in a car with a $43,500 sticker. There was no ACC or ventilated seats or sunroof or power seats and the climate control was single zone. The wipers were not rain sensing and there was no self-parking feature. The Bolt EV feels so very "almost there" in so many respects. Throw the Volt seats into it, but in a rear air conditioning vent, make ACC available, put a handful of soft surfaces into the interior, assemble it properly and, with a price cut, it would be quite competitive. The bones of the car are very solid but the execution is poor. The price is just too high.
TL;DR I rented a Bolt EV and the basics of the car were excellent and the range was liberating. It had great power, a solid structure, and excellent ride/handling. The good bones were let down by a lousy interior with painful seats and a very high price for the feature content.
313 miles on a single charge in a Bolt in REAL WORLD conditions. Not driving around @25 mph in a circle.
bro1999's blog: Drive across the state of Maryland (313 miles) on a single charge? Yes, you can!
bro1999's blog: Drive across the state of Maryland (313 miles) on a single charge? Yes, you can!
Hmm, I've never heard of it. What did you like most about it?
Having very recently driven an i3 (last weekend) I can say that the Bolt's regen in 'L' is stronger but the general behavior of the one-pedal implementation which brings the car to a full stop and holds it there even on an incline is very similar between the two cars. The Bolt's regen with 'L' together with the regen paddle on the steering wheel is clearly stronger than the i3. I found myself missing the Bolt's regen paddle a few times while driving the i3 when I had to resort to using the old-fashioned brake pedal for faster braking.
My own opinion and experience is different. I think the interior is fine and makes use of unusual visually interesting patterns on the white plastic areas. Yes, it's a less expensive interior trim but it doesn't bother me. The build quality, fitment, gaps, whatever on my car are fine. The only flaw was a small bit of amber-colored material underneath the stop/start button which isn't particularly visible (it took me a day to notice it). I think it is probably adhesive. I haven't bothered to try to remove it given it's obscured location. My car was a very early build. Out of 138 Bolts registered at voltstats.net my car has the 6th lowest VIN and the lowest one looks to be an internal beta-test GM car.
I've had no issues with the screen position of the infotainment middle screen or how it is tilted. As for the screen freezing, there is a software update to fix various screen bugs in cars built prior to February or so. Maybe that car hasn't been updated yet. I haven't bothered to take mine in yet for the update. On the rare occasion I've noticed a problem I have quickly rebooted it while driving by holding down a couple buttons below the screen for 10 seconds (early Tesla drivers are familiar with having to do that...).
I think people quickly get used to it. I did. You eventually learn that there are actually only a few occasions when you need to hold that side button. On a typical drive, it is only to shift to reverse from park after starting the car -- shifting from reverse to D, D to L, L to D, or shifting into Park does not require the side button but just a quick toggle back on the shifter.
The armrest position is adjustable from front to back so maybe you needed to push it out of your way. The photo you took of the armrest appears to show it being in the fully forward position. If you are tall or have a long torso, perhaps you also had the seat height adjusted low?
Yes, the front and rear cameras are rather low resolution. The side cameras are better. I'm only looking at the front and rear cameras briefly while parking at slow speed so it doesn't bother me much.
I think the around-view (surround-view) display is very useful while parking. The Bolt EV has rear sonar sensors but none up front.
The camera for the rear view mirror at the top of the windshield that you use while actually driving uses a separate and much better quality camera. Initially, it's a bit disconcerting when glancing between the rear view display and out the front windshield because of focal change but I found that after 2-3 months I got used to it and I no longer think about having to shift my focus. It's useful to not have the rear view partially blocked by the rear seat headrests, passengers, or tall objects in the hatchback area. The display also gives a wider viewing angle which minimizes any blind spots for noticing cars in adjacent lanes. The rear view camera doesn't work so well at night so I flip it back to being a convention non-display mirror.
As for seats, they are on the firm side and are narrower than most. This isn't a problem for me even though I'm a bit overweight. Individuals need to make their own judgements. I've had my car now for 5 months and have driven it 8,700 miles including a couple of 1,000+ mile road trips. I haven't noticed any problems with the upholstery coming apart although I think I remember seeing someone else mention a problem with this. Time will tell.
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stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Great review. It seems to match the others I have read. Overall, it's a good starting point, but they need to address the interior (and maybe add some features like ACC and power seats at least as options). That it doesn't have dual zone climate stood out to me too, esp. for something of this price. Definitely stuff Chevy should consider for 2018.
Real world?
As per the blog:
It's a cool experiment, but that's all it is.
I found this quote more interesting regarding real world performance:
The Bolt not being able to make rated mileage at 60MPH, consuming an additional ~20% range, might be indicative of the aerodynamics of the vehicle.
Uh, what? My test was more "real world" than the one Bjorn did anyways, and he was putzing around at 25 mph on a completely flat stretch of road. I was not driving around in circles on a private road.
And about the part towards the end where I said I upped the speed to 60 mph...the reason the range buffer started shrinking is because the estimate was based mostly on the early driving I had done. You know, going down 2,500 feet in elevation. I was averaging nearly 5.9 miles/kWh up to that point.
Once I increased the speed from 55 to 60, I started using more energy than I had been using, so the GOM started adjusting accordingly. On that stretch of road where I was traveling 60, I "only" achieved 5 miles/kWh, which still extrapolates to 300 miles on a full charge.
For the entire trip I averaged 56 MPH (313.4 miles in 5 hours, 36 minutes). And I drove 313 miles, and probably could have driven another 10 or so. Repeat, I drove 313 miles in a car rated at 238 miles.
Here is an article covering a S70 owner making pretty much the same exact trip as I did, except he and his wife started from a point slightly further away and traveled 16 more miles. It states the drive used 80 kWh of energy. Take off 4 kWh for driving those 16 extra miles, and that gives us 76 used. My Bolt used 57.2 kWh for the same trip.
Aero isn't everything.
That owner is actually a member on here, @Lanny
Crossing Maryland in Record Time with an Electric Vehicle
Aero isn't everything.
That owner is actually a member on here, @Lanny Crossing Maryland in Record Time with an Electric Vehicle
Who was comparing it to Bjorn's test? (On edit: I see you did actually)
Just because another test was also contrived, doesn't mean this one wasn't. Deliberately driving under the limit at speeds that will get you run off the road on most highways isn't how most people drive in the real world.
It's a cool exercise... congrats on making it. I've deliberately driven my Model S in atypical fashion in order to see how low I could get the power consumption. But like your experiment, it was an exercise to maximize an arbitrary factor...
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Another cool experiment.Here is an article covering a S70 owner making pretty much the same exact trip as I did, except he and his wife started from a point slightly further away and traveled 16 more miles. It states the drive used 80 kWh of energy. Take off 4 kWh for driving those 16 extra miles, and that gives us 76 used. My Bolt used 57.2 kWh for the same trip.
Aero isn't everything.
Crossing Maryland in Record Time with an Electric Vehicle
He was doing 70 for significant stretches... so 10-15MPH faster. As aerodynamic resistance goes up with the square of speed, I'm not sure what you are stating is a big surprise? Going 10-15 MPH faster is gonna take more energy.
That having been said, I'm not knocking your accomplishment. The Bolt's efficiency is impressive. I'm just pointing out you artificially limited your speed to achieve the goal.
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I am curious... I drove my Model S P85 on I-95 yesterday for about 2 hours, going with the fastest pack at speeds 60 mph to, well, speeds I shouldn't admit to. I averaged about 67 mph, with significant stretches at ~78-80 mph. My average consumption was 267 Wh/mile. What kind of range do you expect to get at around 78-80 mph with one passenger and light luggage?
A Bolt EV reportedly scored a lap time of 156.619 at REFUEL 2017 at Laguna Seca yesterday which is faster than any Tesla Model S or Roadster at last year's race.
The Bolt's apparent time was also a new record time for the "Production" vehicle class in the 5-year history of the event.
Full 2017 race results have not been posted to the REFUEL website yet.
Here's an apparent video (no audio) of the Bolt taken from the next car behind it.
The Bolt's apparent time was also a new record time for the "Production" vehicle class in the 5-year history of the event.
Full 2017 race results have not been posted to the REFUEL website yet.
Here's an apparent video (no audio) of the Bolt taken from the next car behind it.
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Canuck
Well-Known Member
If you went downhill even more, and drove even slower, you could get that 313 up even higher so I'm not sure that number means all that much. It also sounds painfully slow for a trip but with no fast charging network I guess there's little other choice if you want to take it places.
I just wish other car makers would get off their butts and start building fast charging networks. Until then, I'll look with curiosity at all other long range EVs that come out, including the Bolt, but I won't seriously view any of them as competition to Tesla which is unfortunate.
For comparison the previous best in the Production Class was a Honda Fit EV at 1:58.720.
It's not an McRat-level hot hatch, but it is in the general hot hatch area and if Chevrolet actually wanted to sell the Bolt it's clear to me that it would have an easy marketing avenue.
(Tesla Model S and Roadsters did do faster times 2012 to 2015.)
scottf200
Well-Known Member
Site with different years: REFUEL 2017 - Clean Power Motorsports Event | SPORT ELECTRIC TT COMPETITION RESULTS
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