Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)

[bro1999]

Chevrolet Pressroom - United States - 2016 Spark EV

Storing that energy from the charging process and the vehicle’s regenerative braking capability is a 19-kWh lithium-ion battery pack.

So at least a 19.0 kWh battery, and up to 19.44 in nominal situations.

 

[McRat]

The Spark EV battery is not 296s.

Just like the Volt is no longer 110kW or 98mph limiter per GM Media:

http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/vehicles/volt/2016.tab1.html

The media folk cover a lot cars, they don't always use the freshest data to do their press releases.

 

[McRat]

IIRC, the first Spark EV's were 20kWh, but the newer tech allowed a weight drop, and equal range using 19kWh of a different cell design.

 

[bro1999]

A little birdie told me this about the 15/16 Spark EV battery:

Both 2015 and 16 have 19.44kWh total energy

This is derived by a 54Ah 2P capacity multiplied by an open terminal voltage of 360V (nominal)

In fact it can exceed 20kWh when charging voltages above nominal approaching 400V under ideal conditions

 

[Jeff N]

IIRC, the first Spark EV's were 20kWh, but the newer tech allowed a weight drop, and equal range using 19kWh of a different cell design.

The 2014 Spark EV used completely different cells with a different Lithium chemistry from battery cell maker A123. In 2015 GM switched to LG cells.

 

[Jeff N]

I was leaning towards the theory that all published GM docs show the 2015 Spark EV with 18.4 kWh and the 2016 Spark EV with 19 kWh but then I found this reference written in 2014 which speaks about the 2015 Spark EV battery:
Brownstown Battery Assembly Expands Capabilities

A newly designed battery system features an overall storage capacity of 19 kWh and uses 192 lithium ion cells

 

[stopcrazypp]

The official line from GM is:
Chevrolet Pressroom - United States - Spark EV


And:
Chevrolet Pressroom - United States - Spark EV

View attachment 200879

And:
Chevrolet to Open Retail Sales of Spark EV in Canada



On the other hand, a 2016 Spark EV press release does say 19 kWh:
https://media.gm.com/content/media/...extfile/file.res/16-PG-Chevrolet-Spark-EV.pdf


It's hard to know for certain... GM and LG have tweaked the battery cells every 2-3 years on the Volt so it's a possibility that the 2016 Spark EV cells have slightly more capacity than the 2015 Spark EV cells.

Lab testing by the INL supports the fact that the 2015 Spark EV uses a 18.4kWh (nominal at 3.7V per cell) battery pack. They tested 4 battery packs, all of which tested at 18.2-18.3 kWh in actual capacity when discharged at C/3 (3 hour).

The actual usable capacity when used in the car maxed out at 17.6kWh (during their 60mph test). This calculates to 95.7% usable capacity. A very high usable number, but not at 100% or beyond as speculated.
2015 Chevrolet Spark EV | Advanced Vehicle Testing Activity

Now, is it possible for the pack to measure up to 19 kWh (or 19.44 kWh as @bro1999 claims)? The answer is definitely yes. You can charge it to a peak voltage higher than recommended and/or discharging at lower speeds (for example a C/20 20 hour discharge). That's how some dishonest Chinese battery sellers inflate their capacity. However from the lab test results at industry standard discharge rates and test conditions, the pack appears to be a 18.4kWh pack (at least for the 2015 model; it could be possible there are slight tweaks in the 2016).

 

[RobStark]

When Toyota makes bigger vehicles with more power, their reliability and fuel economy falls faster than the market average. Only buy the timid ones.

Proof?

The Lexus LS is their most reliable car.

Standard Cadillac XTS is craptastic by comparison.

No doubt the CT6 will follow.

Bottom line

 

[McRat]

Proof? ...

New Lexus LX 570 - 383hp - 18 mpg EPA hwy (13 city). 7.2s to 60mph. EDIT - Medium to Low rated.
New (old) Escalade - 420hp - 21mpg EPA hwy (15 city). 5.8s to 60mph. EDIT - High to Medium rated.

First? Toyota is lying about the HP. 1.4 seconds is HUGE. Way more 9% difference in HP.

Second, why can't they get modern economy? The Caddy is a freaking 2v Pushrod V8. The Lexus is a DOHC techno engine.

The Lexus is not only one of the slowest luxury SUV's it's also one of the most thirsty, and brakes?

Not nice:

"(Lexus) - its brake pedal feel leaves something to be desired. Evans describes it as “braking by semaphore,” whereas Burgess calls the braking input odd: “Start to push the pedal down and nothing happens, then you push it a little harder and still nothing. Then the nose dips and the brakes are fully engaged.” I should point out he’s being kind when he says “the nose dips.” The Lexus looks like it’s doing an endo."

Making slow crap reliable is pretty much something that everybody but Trabant mastered. Making powerful vehicles is a bit different.

EDIT - Note that the Toyota Full Sized Pickup shares the same flaws as the 570. Poor power, economy, and performance. Power is not something that Toyota ever mastered.

 

[RobStark]

New Lexus LX 570 - 383hp - 18 mpg EPA hwy (13 city). 7.2s to 60mph. EDIT - Medium to Low rated.
New (old) Escalade - 420hp - 21mpg EPA hwy (15 city). 5.8s to 60mph. EDIT - High to Medium rated.

First? Toyota is lying about the HP. 1.4 seconds is HUGE. Way more 9% difference in HP.

Second, why can't they get modern economy? The Caddy is a freaking 2v Pushrod V8. The Lexus is a DOHC techno engine.

NO PROOF on reliability.

Toyota has mastered reliability and profits.

Google GM global profits and Toyota global profits.

GM $5B for 2015 and Toyota $20B with both about 9% global market share.

Toyota has mastered reliability and profits.

In the mass market reliability is what matters most.

Once you are an established OEM with over 3% global market share what matters is profitability.

 

[McRat]

NO PROOF on reliability.

Toyota has mastered reliability and profits.

Google GM global profits and Toyota global profits.

GM $5B for 2015 and Toyota $20B with both about 9% global market share.

Toyota has mastered reliability and profits.

In the mass market reliability is what matters most.

Once you are an established OEM with over 3% global market share what matters is profitability.

Why would you care if a POS is reliable?

They aren't, but why would you care about it?

 

[McRat]

ie - If a Mitsubishi I-Miev is reliable as a hammer, and Tesla Model X was not as reliable, why would you buy the i-Miev? Because Mitsubishi is a bigger, more profitable company??

Really?

 

[stopcrazypp]

Why would you care if a POS is reliable?

They aren't, but why would you care about it?

I'm pretty sure an LS is not a POS compared to a XTS, or a IS vs ATS, or a GS vs CTS.

 

[rxlawdude]

Bo

Again its the tesla board not gm junk........

There are a few moles and rats here that simply stir up trouble to serve their GM master. On the Tesla fora, they'd be labeled "trolls."

 

[McRat]

I'm pretty sure an LS is not a POS compared to a XTS, or a IS vs ATS, or a GS vs CTS.

The 570 is $90k stripped.

The XT5 is $39k stripped.

I think I'd personally take the XT5.

Comedy? The XT5 is rated as Slow at 6.6s to 60mph. But they don't rate the slower 570 as slow, which is... slower. Nothing new. The media are fanboyz of Toy cars.

 

[ggr]

Again its the tesla board not gm junk........

This part of the forum is specifically about OTHER EVs. You don't have to read it. I care about what the perceived competition is doing.

 

[Breezy]

Proof?

The Lexus LS is their most reliable car.

Standard Cadillac XTS is craptastic by comparison.

No doubt the CT6 will follow.

Bottom line

Let me bring you up to date. Here's the latest:

The XTS is rated above average by Consumer Reports. Buick is the #3 most reliable automaker. Chevrolet is average. Cadillac is below average.

Tesla is below Cadillac.

 

[McRat]

This part of the forum is specifically about OTHER EVs. You don't have to read it. I care about what the perceived competition is doing.

It is comedy that some folk appear to think a Bolt is a competitor to a Model S.

They are not for the same demographic. Nobody is trading in their P90D for a Bolt.

I can't even imagine a Model S being used for what you'd use a Bolt for. Parking in crowded "compact" parking lots, parking outside your garage each night. Waxing annually, if that. Driving through any style of carwash. Letting kids eat in the car or bring their crayons. Climbing in with muddy boots. Going 55mph down gravel/dirt roads. Following close behind dump trucks, etc.

To be honest? I'm not convinced most folk would do that with a Model 3. I would, but I don't think most would.

It's not a Ferrari/Porsche/Jag/Vette. It's a hatchback for our congested roads and urban sprawl.

 

[RobStark]

Why would you care if a POS is reliable?

They aren't, but why would you care about it?

They are and every credible reliability company says so. Posting otherwise does not mean *sugar*.

IF a POS gives me 4x the profitability of competitors POS then I am happy.

The average consumer cares about being driven from point A to point B without worry of having to ever take it to the shop all else being almost the same. Autonomous BEVs are not roughly the same as conventional ICEv.

The vast majority of consumers could care less if auto enthusiast on the internet call his car a POS.

 

[bak_phy]

It is comedy that some folk appear to think a Bolt is a competitor to a Model S.

It's absolutely a competitor. Some people just want an EV that goes 200+ miles and until the Bolt comes out they could only choose the model S.