Climate Change / Global Warming Discussion

[mspohr]

The heat is on over the climate crisis. Only radical measures will work

The heat is on over the climate crisis. Only radical measures will work

Drowned cities; stagnant seas; intolerable heatwaves; entire nations uninhabitable… and more than 11 billion humans. A four-degree-warmer world is the stuff of nightmares and yet that’s where we’re heading in just decades.

 

[jrad6515]

You cannot assume that. We must prove our foundation, or everything on top of it will collapse when you say, “well I never believed the adjustments anyway.” Join me on a public, live broadcast of each step of the science. You seem scared of that. I am not.

I just don't think I can dumb this down for you any more than I already have. I will try one last time:

Assume that your questionable temperature adjustments are correct. Now prove that the adjusted temperature record has in any way been materially altered by human activity. You know you can't prove it so you will undoubtedly keep trying to dodge my challenge.

By the way, do you have any formal training in science? From your apparent lack of understanding of what constitutes scientific proof it would appear that you do not.

 

[S'toon]

“Australians elected someone who once brought a lump of coal into Parliament urging us to dismiss the warnings from climate scientists, and to dig up more coal instead,” Professor Stephan Lewandowsky, an Australian cognitive scientist, told ThinkProgress in an email. “There is little doubt that his government will do precisely that.”

“We have lost Australia for now,” warned Penn State climatologist Michael Mann in an email. “A coalition of a small number of bad actors now threaten the survivability of our species,” he said.

These include “the fossil fueled Murdoch media empire, which saturated the country with dishonest right-wing campaign propaganda” working with a few “petrostates including Saudi Arabia, Russia, Trump’s America, and now Australia.”

<snip>

In re-electing Morrison, a long-time opponent of climate action, Murdoch and his allies have triumphed again.

In fact, Morrison first became prime minister back in 2015 following a party coup against then Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull, who supported the climate action.

Turnbull’s efforts to cut carbon pollution and promote clean energy rankled right-wing members of his ruling Liberal Party, whose stances were closer to President Trump’s pro-coal (and anti-immigrant) policies.

<snip>

Full article at:

‘We have lost Australia for now,’ warns climate scientist in wake of election upset

 

[ohmman]

I just don't think I can dumb this down for you any more than I already have. I will try one last time:

Assume that your questionable temperature adjustments are correct. Now prove that the adjusted temperature record has in any way been materially altered by human activity. You know you can't prove it so you will undoubtedly keep trying to dodge my challenge.

By the way, do you have any formal training in science? From your apparent lack of understanding of what constitutes scientific proof it would appear that you do not.

I plan to prove this to you. Join me live on camera and we'll work through it. I've repeatedly offered this but you seem dodgy for some reason. I can't imagine what it would be since your tone is always one of superiority.

Let us know what time works for you and I'll set up the broadcast.

 

[jrad6515]

This is what climate change looks like:
Atmospheric Convulsion Will Cause Historic Disasters of Arctic Melt & U.S. Storms Next Week

This is written to give an early warning to people and because this is what climate change looks like. Consult your local NOAA weather forecasts to stay safe over the next week. The American model shows an extremely unstable situation developing late Monday over Texas and Oklahoma.

OMG...I missed this earlier but thanks for the warning anyway. I live in Texas and true to you guys' alarmist predictions we are being devastated by this terrible "atmospheric convulsion" and "historic disaster" due to climate change! Here is a photo I took of the utter and complete devastation here in Texas this morning:

This 'climate change' stuff is scary. Glad you guys are on top of it!

 

[jrad6515]

I plan to prove this to you. Join me live on camera and we'll work through it. I've repeatedly offered this but you seem dodgy for some reason. I can't imagine what it would be since your tone is always one of superiority.

Let us know what time works for you and I'll set up the broadcast.

If you agree to attempt to offer direct proof of the issue at hand, i.e. solid evidence of the climate record being appreciably altered by humans, then I am game. Otherwise if you are going to dance around the issue with bogus temperature adjustments then I am not interested. If you can do that then PM and we will set it up.

And remember the onus is on YOU to prove AGW, not on me to disprove it. If you are familiar with the scientific method and the null hypothesis then will understand and agree to that.

 

[nwdiver]

I plan to prove this to you. Join me live on camera and we'll work through it. I've repeatedly offered this but you seem dodgy for some reason. I can't imagine what it would be since your tone is always one of superiority.

Let us know what time works for you and I'll set up the broadcast.

You can't use facts or reason to change someone's position if their position isn't based on facts or reason....

 

[SageBrush]

If you agree to attempt to offer direct proof of the issue at hand, i.e. solid evidence of the climate record being appreciably altered by humans, then I am game. Otherwise if you are going to dance around the issue with bogus temperature adjustments then I am not interested. If you can do that then PM and we will set it up.

Ohmman is offering to analyze the temperature adjustments with you. Why do you call them 'bogus' before you understand why it was performed ?

You call yourself a scientist ? Heaven help us

 

[jrad6515]

Ohmman is offering to analyze the temperature adjustments with you. Why do you call them 'bogus' before you understand why it was performed ?

You call yourself a scientist ? Heaven help us

Geez - you guys are dense. I told him to assume that his bogus adjustments to the temperature record are valid. Now take that temp record and prove that is has been in any material way affected by humans. How many more times do I need to spell this out for you before you are able to read it with comprehension?

Meanwhile I need to deal with the terrible "atmospheric convulsion" and "historic disaster" that your alarmist heroes warned us about last week!

 

[SageBrush]

I told him to assume that his bogus adjustments to the temperature record are valid.

Make up your mind -- bogus or not ?

If valid then you are arguing that a multi-variable regression analysis is not a valid statistical tool or was misapplied. The onus is on you to prove either but I recommend that everyone go about their business instead. You are going to be at it until you die.

 

[JRP3]

This 'climate change' stuff is scary. Glad you guys are on top of it!

If one picture of a sunny day disproves climate change what does a picture of rain prove? Are you really this dense?

 

[ohmman]

If you agree to attempt to offer direct proof of the issue at hand, i.e. solid evidence of the climate record being appreciably altered by humans, then I am game. Otherwise if you are going to dance around the issue with bogus temperature adjustments then I am not interested. If you can do that then PM and we will set it up.

And remember the onus is on YOU to prove AGW, not on me to disprove it. If you are familiar with the scientific method and the null hypothesis then will understand and agree to that.

We will work through it scientifically. I won’t just lift up an curtain and go “see?!” Because that’s not how science works. Science is a process. It’ll be a multi part discussion during which you will have the opportunity to provide any well sourced objections to the methodology, and we can test both of the methodologies on a manufactured data set to see which properly cleanses it and which doesn’t.

It will absolutely include validating the temperature record.

As a quick initial napkin scribble, I see the parts breaking down something like this:

1. Land temperature changes with validation methodology
2. Ocean temperature and acidification changes with validation methodology (might be worth splitting into two parts)
3. Historical recap of carbon levels and temperature fluctuations from the fossil record
4. Review of atmospheric carbon levels in the Industrial Age contextualized within the results from our earlier studies
5. Probability analysis for anthropogenic carbon’s effect on global land and ocean temperature and acidification changes. (Your favorite part!)

As you can see, the parts all fit together. There’s no way to “skip to the end.” That is not how we do science. I’m absolutely eager and looking forward to doing this so let me know when it works for you.

 

[SageBrush]

And remember the onus is on YOU to prove AGW, not on me to disprove it. If you are familiar with the scientific method and the null hypothesis then will understand and agree to that.

How little you understand. Given that the earth is warming, the null hypothesis is already rejected.

 

[mspohr]

Climate crisis more politically polarizing than abortion for US voters, study finds

Climate crisis more politically polarizing than abortion for US voters, study finds

“Climate change is now more politically polarizing than any other issue in America,” said Anthony Leiserowitz, director of the Yale program on climate change communication. “The issue has climbed and climbed in importance for the Democratic base since the 2016 presidential election to the point that it’s now a top tier concern. We have never seen that in American politics before.

“We don’t have to agree on humans being to blame to agree on the importance on building resilience and weaning ourselves off fossil fuels. There are strong arguments for doing those things anyway.”

 

[mspohr]

Excellent speech by Bill Moyer
What if we covered the climate crisis like we did the start of the second world war?

What if we covered the climate crisis like we did the start of the second world war? | Bill Moyers
In the war, the purpose of journalism was to awaken the world to the catastrophe looming ahead of it. We must approach our climate crisis the same way
My colleague and co-writer, Glenn Scherer, compares global disruption to a repeat hit-and-run driver: anonymous, deadly, and requiring tireless investigation to identify the perpetrator. There are long stretches of nothing, then suddenly Houston is inundated and Paradise burns. San Juan blows away and salt water creeps into the subways of New York. The networks put their reporters out in raincoats or standing behind police barriers as flames consume far hills. Yet we rarely hear the words “global warming” or “climate disruption” in their reports. The big backstory of rising CO2 levels, escalating drought, collateral damage, cause and effect, and politicians on the take from fossil-fuel companies? Forget all that. Not good for ratings, say network executives.

In September of 1939, with Europe hours away from going up in flames, the powers at CBS in New York ordered Murrow and Shirer to feature an entertainment broadcast spotlighting dance music from nightspots in London, Paris, and Hamburg. Here’s the account from Cloud and Olson:

"‘They say there’s so much bad news out of Europe, they want some good news,’ Murrow [in London] snapped to Shirer [in Berlin] over the phone. The show, scheduled to be broadcast just as Germany was about to rape Poland, would be called ‘Europe Dances’ … Finally, Murrow decreed, ‘The hell with those bastards in New York. It may cost us our jobs, but we’re just not going to do it’.”

And they didn’t. They defied the bosses—and gave CBS one of the biggest stories of the 20th century, the invasion of Poland.

 

[jerry33]

"‘They say there’s so much bad news out of Europe, they want some good news,’ Murrow [in London] snapped to Shirer [in Berlin] over the phone. The show, scheduled to be broadcast just as Germany was about to rape Poland, would be called ‘Europe Dances’ … Finally, Murrow decreed, ‘The hell with those bastards in New York. It may cost us our jobs, but we’re just not going to do it’.”

And they didn’t. They defied the bosses—and gave CBS one of the biggest stories of the 20th century, the invasion of Poland.

Unfortunately, there is no one like Murrow left and even if there was the story would be squashed before being aired because that's now technically possible to do.

 

[SageBrush]

Unfortunately, there is no one like Murrow left and even if there was the story would be squashed before being aired because that's now technically possible to do.

While the bozo in the White House screams "FAKE NEWS" on twitter and plans a rally

 

[mspohr]

It is clear we have everything we need right now to create a better 2040.
A vision of 2040: everything we need for a sustainable world already exists

A vision of 2040: everything we need for a sustainable world already exists

Over the last three years I’ve been making a film called 2040. It’s a visual letter to my daughter showing her what the world could look like that year if we put into practice some of the best solutions that exist today. I call it an exercise in “fact-based dreaming”, as everything I show her in the future has to already exist today.

Also,
Educate women.
Seaweed.

 

[jerry33]

It is clear we have everything we need right now to create a better 2040.
A vision of 2040: everything we need for a sustainable world already exists

A vision of 2040: everything we need for a sustainable world already exists

Over the last three years I’ve been making a film called 2040. It’s a visual letter to my daughter showing her what the world could look like that year if we put into practice some of the best solutions that exist today. I call it an exercise in “fact-based dreaming”, as everything I show her in the future has to already exist today.

Also,
Educate women.
Seaweed.

The video seems really great, but I have one comment: The music track is so loud that the voices are hard to understand.

 

[S'toon]

Sea levels could rise by as much as two metres by 2100 in a worst-case scenario involving melting ice caps and high CO2 emissions, a new study suggests.

The research released earlier this week points to a possible impact considerably higher than estimates made by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) in 2014 that suggested a one-metre rise in sea levels by the end of the century.

"Sea level rise numbers are in flux, and they've generally been trending upwards since the Fifth Assessment Report of the IPCC because we've been learning more about the potential modes of instability in the Antarctic ice sheets in particular," said Robert Kopp, co-author of the study and a professor at the department of Earth and planetary sciences at Rutgers University in New Brunswick, N.J.

One of the most difficult things to forecast in this changing climate is the estimates of sea level rise. There are various contributors to rising seas, including thermal expansion (oceans will expand and become denser as they warm) and melting ice caps and glaciers.

How fast those glaciers and ice caps melt is a big unknown. Recent studies have suggested that the West Antarctic is losing far more ice than ever before. But scientists are beginning to gain additional knowledge.

<snip>

Full article at:
Sea levels could rise by up to 2 metres by 2100, new study finds