Climate Change / Global Warming Discussion

[TheTalkingMule]

Of course it does. But when you're beating high temperature records by 8-10 degrees and single day(any day) rainfall records by 2.5 inches....you're allowed to start thinking about climate a tad.

80 again in Philly today headed back toward 70 tomorrow. In fairness.....Punxsutawney Phil did predict this.

 

[nwdiver]

And here in MN today it is 45, yet no record. The record high was set in 1966 (56) and the record low in 1984 (-12). Weather fluctuates.

True... but this ain't weather...

 

[JRP3]

That's the problem with using local anecdotes, someone will always come up with their own which "proves" the opposite. That's why it's better to just concentrate on long term trends, which are only going in one direction over time. Hint, it's not down.

 

[ohmman]

That's the problem with using local anecdotes, someone will always come up with their own which "proves" the opposite. That's why it's better to just concentrate on long term trends, which are only going in one direction over time. Hint, it's not down.

Anecdote is always a bad indicator. It's the most effective at moving people to action, though. That's why politicians parade "Sally, who I met in Dayton, Ohio, who..." in front of everyone. Statistics, the actual measure of things, just aren't compelling to most people.

That said, I get turned off when people use "hot" days to indicate global warming. Weather events aren't climate (even if they're part of it). Let's focus on the true measurements, which are obscenely clear. We don't need anecdote.

 

[Robert.Boston]

Anecdotes that illustrate trends are helpful in getting people's hearts engaged.

The comparison I use is to dice: rolling boxcars (6-6) once doesn't show that the die are weighted, but if you get 20 boxcars in 100 rolls, that's pretty clear evidence. One hot day doesn't prove climate change, but the repeated breaking of high temperature records is highly implausible unless the "dice are weighted," i.e. there is a warming trend.

 

[CO2CLEAN]

I believe in global warming, but when discussing electric cars vs fossil fuel cars I focus on the air pollution. Nobody can deny (after some fact checking, see my signature) that electric cars cause less CO2 in the atmosphere and therefore help reduce the increase in air pollution. Electric cars also make it possible to make cars safer and the air (in cities mostly) will not warm up as much compared to internal combustion engines.

 

[Skotty]

No one is noticing or caring yet, because warm weather in Winter is fine with most people. But just wait until record heat in the Summer is melting the streets and trees start dying. When you step outside and it feels like you are in an oven. And when this starts to become normal. That's when people will start really paying attention. We've had clear evidence for years, and no one cares save for a few scientists and environmentalists who hold no significant power to enact change. The general anecdote loving populace needs their anecdotes that give them bad days. Hopefully, this happens sooner rather than later. I hoping to see some good 130F summer days this summer in the Midwest. We could use some serious spikes to kick start action sooner. The sooner it happens, the sooner action will be taken, and the less bad it will be in the long run.

 

[ggies07]

Thought this was an interesting break....It reminded me of the show about the Ice Truckers.

Record-breaking temperatures 'have robbed the Arctic of its winter'

This year’s record-breaking temperatures have robbed the Arctic of its winter, sending snowmobilers plunging through thin ice into freezing rivers and forcing deliveries of snow to the starting line of Alaska’s legendary Iditarod dogsledding race.

Last month’s high temperatures – up to 16C (29F) above normal in some parts of the Arctic

 

[Zaxxon]

Go, Oregon, go...

 

[ggies07]

Go, Oregon, go...

Great article and glad to see this. This also proves that we can't disconnect politics with what's happening to our planet.....shouldn't be this way, but it is.

 

[ggies07]

I like this idea along with the many other ones we have discussed about how to shape up this emissions debacle.

How Carbon Farming Could Reverse Climate Change | Civil Eats

 

[adiggs]

I like this idea along with the many other ones we have discussed about how to shape up this emissions debacle...

I haven't seen the carbon farming angle, but the idea of creating a food forest is something that has grabbed my imagination and won't let go. I think that someday, when I grow up, I'm going to become a farmer And in particular, I'm going to learn about permaculture, food forests, and who knows what else, with an eye towards establish a small bit of the planet that I personally take care of in that manner.

Worth mentioning - are there others here that are going down this food forest / permaculture / etc.. path themselves? Maybe we need a thread, kind of like the beekeeping thread, to talk more!

 

[ohmman]

I like this idea along with the many other ones we have discussed about how to shape up this emissions debacle.

One way to augment this strategy for locking up carbon is to take the biomass produced from the forests and turn them into biochar. I haven't kept up with the biochar movement, but it does lock up the carbon much more permanently than simply creating soil material. I believe it nets less GHG emissions as well, despite having to partially burn it, because you're comparing it to composting which emits a lot of methane.

That's all from memory from a seminar I attended a while back, so someone who knows more can elaborate/correct me if necessary.

 

[omgwtfbyobbq]

That sounds right.

http://www.azimuthproject.org/azimuth/show/Biochar

Biochar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here's a video of making biochar from smaller pieces of wood by heating it inside a container in a wood stove.

A quick calculation suggests that creating/burying 8lbs of biochar per day for 3 months/year would sequester ~3 tons of CO2/year.

 

[ggies07]

Another great article by Bill McKibben: Global Warming’s Terrifying New Chemistry

There are so many bits a could quote, I'll just give the main one:

In February, Harvard researchers published an explosive paper in Geophysical Research Letters. Using satellite data and ground observations, they concluded that the nation as a whole is leaking methane in massive quantities. Between 2002 and 2014, the data showed that US methane emissions increased by more than 30 percent, accounting for 30 to 60 percent of an enormous spike in methane in the entire planet’s atmosphere.

 

[Branzo90D]

Well, this article seems to indicate that things are looking up for renewable energy sources, but, is it growing fast enough to mitigate major climate effects of global warming? I guess my kids will find out . . .

Wind and solar are growing at a shocking pace (just not yet enough to stop climate change)

 

[TheTalkingMule]

The DoE is not messing about.

The $2.5 Billion U.S. Power Line That No State Can Stop

A $2.5-billion transmission line carrying wind power to the U.S. Southeast is coming -- whether state regulators there like it or not.

On Friday, the U.S. Energy Department used a decade-old statute to clear Clean Line Energy Partners LLC’s 705-mile (1,134-kilometer) power line for construction over any objections from the states involved.

The Energy Department’s approval of the line, proposed to carry 4,000 megawatts of power from the wind-rich Oklahoma panhandle through Arkansas and into Tennessee, marks the first time the 2005 statute has been used to bypass state approval and push through an interstate transmission project.

“Moving remote and plentiful power to areas where electricity is in high demand is essential for building the grid of the future,” Energy Secretary Ernest Moniz said in a statement. “Building modern transmission that delivers renewable energy to more homes and businesses will create jobs, cut carbon emissions, and enhance the reliability of our grid.”

The approval highlights a potential workaround for some U.S. transmission developers who have for years dealt with regulatory delays and roadblocks at the state level while trying to site new power lines. The statute gave the Energy Department authority to clear interstate projects co-sponsored by either of two of its four public power agencies. It’s just the latest twist in the battle over transmission siting between state and federal agencies as U.S. regulators push for stronger, multi-state lines capable of moving renewable power to where it’s needed.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-u-s-transmission-line-that-no-state-can-stop

 

[SageBrush]

The DoE is not messing about.

The $2.5 Billion U.S. Power Line That No State Can Stop

Awesome news, and very interesting. I had no idea that private business was willing to build clean energy infrastructure this expensive. I'm not surprised though to read that local states were road-blocks. Similar to PUCs, the fossil fuel interests have been quite adept at buying local political influence.

This is why the national elections matter so much, to keep massive infrastructure projects that advance the clean energy economy moving forward.

Addendum: I was mulling over a possible cost per kWh. Wild guesstimates:
100% capacity
62 cents per watt installation
60 year life ??
50% mark-up
10% transmission losses

.... ..... ....
Works out to ~ 0.1 cents per kWh additional cost. Since wind is 2-3 cents per kWh, that works out to very inexpensive, clean power.

 

[ggies07]

Everyone, please sign. We must hold accountable the biggest oil company just like the biggest tobacco companies.

#ExxonKnew

BIG news just dropped: Massachusetts, US Virgin Islands are officially in on the ‪#‎ExxonKnew‬ investigations, and Attorneys General across the country are thinking about joining too.

These investigations *could* hold Exxon accountable, if we push for it. Join the call:

Recent reports have shown that Exxon knew about the threat of climate change decades ago. Yet over the course of nearly forty years, the company has contributed millions of dollars to think tanks and politicians that have done their best to spread doubt and misinformation — first on the existence of climate change, then the extent of the problem, and now its cause. If Exxon intentionally misled the public about climate change and fossil fuels, then they should be held accountable. We’re calling for an immediate investigation.”

 

[SageBrush]

Then on to the senate, where an enraged Inhofe holds them accountable.