TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC
  1. TMC is currently READ ONLY.
    Click here for more info.

Commercial Crew Transportation Capability (CCtCap) SpaceX and Boeing developments

Discussion in 'SpaceX' started by Grendal, May 12, 2016.

Tags:
  1. e-FTW

    e-FTW New electron smell

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2015
    Messages:
    3,216
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    Now seems like a good time as any to post this, which I assume has been posted here before: A trip down the SpaceX memory lane - Kwajalein Atoll and Rockets
     
    • Informative x 1
    • Like x 1
  2. e-FTW

    e-FTW New electron smell

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2015
    Messages:
    3,216
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    • Like x 1
  3. e-FTW

    e-FTW New electron smell

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2015
    Messages:
    3,216
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    #883 e-FTW, Jun 28, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020
    One quite appropriate post from that blog (last one I promise): December 2016 when SpaceX won a COTS program award.
    Kwajalein Atoll and Rockets: A picture says a thousand words...
    [​IMG]

    Yup, count hem: 7 seats. Still the current crew capacity. Just not on NASA flights which are limited to 4.

    Some of the comments at the bottom of some posts did not age well...
     
    • Informative x 2
  4. Grendal

    Grendal SpaceX Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2012
    Messages:
    5,661
    Location:
    Santa Fe, New Mexico
    • Informative x 1
  5. Grendal

    Grendal SpaceX Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2012
    Messages:
    5,661
    Location:
    Santa Fe, New Mexico
    Replay of the update. Starts at about 27 minutes into the video. 80 issues.
     
    • Helpful x 1
    • Informative x 1
  6. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2013
    Messages:
    8,229
    Location:
    San Diego
    And here's the written summary: https://www.nasa.gov/feature/nasa-and-boeing-complete-orbital-flight-test-reviews

    No date yet for a re-run of the test mission. They found software errors, testing errors, RF engineering errors, process errors, etc. The connectivity issues seems to have been related to both bad RF hardware design as well as bad antenna selection algorithms. Most of the recommendations dealt with process issues, which to me means problems when one subcontractor hands off code/hardware/subsystems to another contractor. That kind of problem occurs much less frequently in SpaceX since they have far fewer subcontractors (and those they do have, the interfaces are comparatively simple and well understood).
     
    • Informative x 2
    • Like x 2
    • Helpful x 1
  7. e-FTW

    e-FTW New electron smell

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2015
    Messages:
    3,216
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    • Like x 2
  8. Grendal

    Grendal SpaceX Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2012
    Messages:
    5,661
    Location:
    Santa Fe, New Mexico
    The big "bazinga" was when they were asked if NASA scrutinized SpaceX more than they checked on Boeing and the answer was a, not surprising, YES.
     
    • Like x 2
    • Love x 2
    • Informative x 1
  9. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2013
    Messages:
    8,229
    Location:
    San Diego
    oh wow. Just to clarify, the question was about the time period before the mishap, right? So, this was a specific review of the Boeing incident. Did anyone ask if Boeing is going to get a full organizational review like SpaceX got?
     
    • Like x 1
  10. Nikxice

    Nikxice Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    1,054
    Location:
    Hudson, NH
    #890 Nikxice, Jul 8, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
    Not sure if you're referring to the simultaneous SpaceX/Boeing "cultural assessment study" that began after the Joe Rogan podcast in November 2018. Without much notice it was completed in October 2019. As the joint review with NASA wrapped up Bridenstine was quoted in an article published by CNBC.

    “It’s really for SpaceX, I mean, it is a safety review for them. If they want to make it public, I think that they should do that,” Bridenstine added.
    He emphasized that he doesn’t think “there’s much a story there” in the results of the safety reviews.
    “Quite frankly, I think both companies are operating really responsibly, and making sure that their cultures are safe,” Bridenstine said. “And so, as we get close to launching astronauts on rockets again, it’s not just NASA that needs to be safe, it’s our commercial partners that need to be safe.”

    His first statement was revealing. What I heard is, "We checked out SpaceX thoroughly, but Boeing.....maybe not as much." For their part SpaceX undoubtedly dug in while participating in the review. Boeing might not have taken it as seriously.
     
  11. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2013
    Messages:
    8,229
    Location:
    San Diego
    I was referring to that, but I was pretty sure only SpaceX got the proctology exam, not Boeing.

    Here we go. Apparently NASA tried to do the same level of review to both companies but Boeing balked. Nice going Boeing.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/11/18/boeing-faced-only-limited-safety-review-nasa-while-spacex-got-full-examination/
     
    • Informative x 2
  12. e-FTW

    e-FTW New electron smell

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2015
    Messages:
    3,216
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    I was kind of thinking that back then, they wanted to see if SpaceX was living up to the standard set by Boeing. Turns out that might have been a low bar that SpaceX cleared easily.
    This not that long ago, but it was also before the huge shift in mindsets created by crew arrival at the ISS on Flacon-Dragon. SpaceX took the bar, and raised it where it should be, hitting Boeing on the chin on the way up...
     
    • Love x 2
  13. Mickeyflea

    Mickeyflea Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2020
    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Merthyr Tydfil
    • Like x 1
  14. Padelford

    Padelford Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2017
    Messages:
    388
    Location:
    Seattle
    Here’s the smoking gun on how NASA favored Boeing over Space-X:

     
    • Informative x 2
    • Like x 2
    • Helpful x 1
  15. e-FTW

    e-FTW New electron smell

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2015
    Messages:
    3,216
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    This explain it with more better words: The engineering culture clash that defines America’s newest spacecraft
     
  16. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2013
    Messages:
    8,229
    Location:
    San Diego
    From the article:

    “Software people are kind of strange, over in the corner, and kind of viewed as a service,” Leuders said. “But as we know nowadays, your system is very integrated. Your software capability really drives the capability of the overall system.”

    Dude, if software isn’t a first class citizen in your design, good luck! For cost, flexibility, and capability reasons, the most complex part of almost any system these days is the software.
     
  17. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2013
    Messages:
    8,229
    Location:
    San Diego
    Also from that same article, waterfall versus iterative design. Has Waterfall ever worked? The problem is that it is almost impossible to come up with accurate requirements, let alone design, before you start a project. You don’t know what you don’t know until you start building, at which point you realize the holes in your requirements and you change your design.

    People soft denigrate iterative design by saying it’s the way that Silicon Valley throws together software. But, wait a minute, Silicon Valley’s iterative techniques are responsible for the top five companies in the S&P 500. It’s a technique that works. Meanwhile waterfall is probably responsible for more IT disasters than I can comfortably count.
     
    • Like x 6
  18. Grendal

    Grendal SpaceX Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2012
    Messages:
    5,661
    Location:
    Santa Fe, New Mexico
    Well this is huge:
    [​IMG]

    NASA is showing an impressive ability to support reuse..
     
    • Like x 4
    • Love x 2
  19. e-FTW

    e-FTW New electron smell

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2015
    Messages:
    3,216
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    • Like x 5
  20. adiggs

    adiggs Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    4,172
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Uhm... wow!?!

    That's fantastic news. Reuse on human flight- awesome. Maybe NASA is getting into the idea of flight proven hardware too!
     
    • Like x 1

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC