Commercial Crew Transportation Capability (CCtCap) SpaceX and Boeing Developments

[scaesare]

1.1 B so far.

Boeing has now lost $1.1 billion on Starliner, with no crew flight in sight

"We're not really ready to talk about a launch opportunity yet."

arstechnica.com

I just saw that article too and came back to post it, hehe...

In the article it says:

Nine years ago, when NASA down-selected to Boeing and SpaceX to provide crew transportation services to the space station, Boeing was considered the prohibitive favorite to deliver first for NASA. However, SpaceX will launch its seventh operational mission and eighth overall crew mission for NASA next month.

I don't understand what "prohibitive favorite" means?

 

[ecarfan]

I don't understand what "prohibitive favorite" means?

It’s amother way of saying “odds on favorite”, meaning most people expected Boeing to place humans in LEO before SpaceX because of Boeing’s aerospace history.

 

[scaesare]

It’s amother way of saying “odds on favorite”, meaning most people expected Boeing to place humans in LEO before SpaceX because of Boeing’s aerospace history.

Thanks... it occurred to me I should just look it up, and that is indeed the meaning.

Although I find it weird to use "prohibitive" in something that you expect to succeed.

However, I digress... this is not the Grammar forum.

 

[AudubonB]

‘tain’t grammar, it’s just a weirdism. I would translate it into English as “…there-being-no-second-place kind of favorite”.

Which is as elegant as a steamer trunk falling down the stairs.

 

[Watts_Up]

Although I find it weird to use "prohibitive" in something that you expect to succeed.

Interesting remark indeed, out of context "prohibitive" has various meanings, such as
- restricted or forbiden
- too expensive
and sounds also close to "prohibited', while "prohibitive favorite" would be to prevent other to success.

 

[Nikxice]

So two major issues have now been identified as Starliner safety issues, while NASA continues to hunt for other concerns that might be lurking. From Eric's article, this particular finding grabbed my attention.

Technicians have also removed panels from inside the Starliner spacecraft to access the flammable tape. This glass cloth tape was wrapped around wiring inside the spacecraft to protect it from chafing and rubbing in flight. Stich said about three pounds of tape have been removed from Starliner so far......Yikes, did Boeing learn anything from Apollo 1 back in 1967?

 

[JB47394]

Yikes, did Boeing learn anything from Apollo 1 back in 1967

The tape addresses the very problem that started the Apollo 1 fire. So, yes, they've learned a lot. But Boeing engineers are not SpaceX engineers. The corporate cultures are wildly different, and Boeing's process allowed for some sloppy work. We've seen this in their aircraft as well. They aren't the young hungry company that they once were.

Note that it was stated that "under certain circumstances" the tape was flammable. We have no idea how obscure those circumstances are, so it's not like they wrapped det cord around the wiring to keep it safe.

 

[GWord]

The tape addresses the very problem that started the Apollo 1 fire. So, yes, they've learned a lot. But Boeing engineers are not SpaceX engineers. The corporate cultures are wildly different, and Boeing's process allowed for some sloppy work. We've seen this in their aircraft as well. They aren't the young hungry company that they once were.

Note that it was stated that "under certain circumstances" the tape was flammable. We have no idea how obscure those circumstances are, so it's not like they wrapped det cord around the wiring to keep it safe.

To be clear SpaceX had the same problem and discovered that some of their chosen valve metallurgy was flammable under certain circumstances.

 

[scaesare]

The tape addresses the very problem that started the Apollo 1 fire. So, yes, they've learned a lot. But Boeing engineers are not SpaceX engineers. The corporate cultures are wildly different, and Boeing's process allowed for some sloppy work. We've seen this in their aircraft as well. They aren't the young hungry company that they once were.

Note that it was stated that "under certain circumstances" the tape was flammable. We have no idea how obscure those circumstances are, so it's not like they wrapped det cord around the wiring to keep it safe.

With regard them not being the company they once were, there's an interesting NetFlix documentary on the design failures leading to the 737-Max crashes a few years back.

It appears much of the previous "safety/engineering first" culture was pushed aside when they merged with McDonnell Douglas, whose management team largely took over.

 

[AudubonB]

‘tain’t grammar, it’s just a weirdism. I would translate it into English as “…there-being-no-second-place kind of favorite”.

Which is as elegant as a steamer trunk falling down the stairs.

Oort Belt-grade Off Topicality, but I love my staircase-challenged trunk. Great visuals and sonics. I use it whenever I can

 

[Electroman]

Man, a quarter-billion dollar loss... after a while that starts to hurt.

A billion here and a billion there, pretty soon it becomes serious money.

 

[Grendal]

NASA TV:
Monday, August 7
2 p.m. - NASA and Boeing host a media teleconference to provide an update on the first astronaut flight of the company’s CST-100 Starliner to and from the International Space Station

 

[Grendal]

First Starliner crewed flight delayed to 2024

Boeing has delayed the first flight of its CST-100 Starliner commercial crew vehicle with astronauts on board to no earlier than March 2024.

spacenews.com

 

[ecarfan]

First Starliner crewed flight delayed to 2024

Boeing has delayed the first flight of its CST-100 Starliner commercial crew vehicle with astronauts on board to no earlier than March 2024.

spacenews.com

In other completely unsurprising news, a dog bit a postman today…

 

[ecarfan]

Eric Berger’s take Starliner undergoing three independent investigations as flight slips to 2024

In addition to the hardware work, Boeing must also comply with three separate investigations. According to Stich, there is an "independent team" at Boeing reviewing the company's actions. In addition, NASA's chief engineer, Joseph Pellicciotti, has interviewed every one of Starliner's subsystem managers to ensure there are no other potential surprises looming. Finally, Pellicciotti, his deputy, and the NASA Engineering & Safety Center have been conducting their own independent review of Starliner's soundness.

All of these assessments must be completed before NASA convenes a flight-readiness review and determines that Starliner is finally ready to take flight with astronauts on board.

 

[scaesare]

Last month it was reported that Boeing has lost $1.1B on Starliner thus far. I wonder what an additional 7 months of delay (minimum), plus the additional chutr upgrade and testing is gonna cost them?

 

[JB47394]

I wonder what an additional 7 months of delay (minimum), plus the additional chutr upgrade and testing is gonna cost them?

Whatever the cost, if it throws out the bean counters and gets Boeing back to being an engineering-first company then it'll all be worth it.

 

[Grendal]

Four crew members now are assigned to launch on NASA’s SpaceX Crew-8 mission for a long-duration stay aboard the International Space Station.

NASA astronauts Commander Matthew Dominick, Pilot Michael Barratt, and Mission Specialist Jeanette Epps, along with Roscosmos cosmonaut Mission Specialist Alexander Grebenkin, will join Expedition 70 and 71 crew members aboard the station in early 2024 to conduct a wide-ranging set of operational and research activities.

Space Station Assignments Out for NASA’s SpaceX Crew-8 Mission - NASA

Four crew members now are assigned to launch on NASA’s SpaceX Crew-8 mission for a long-duration stay aboard the International Space Station.

www.nasa.gov

 

[ecarfan]

This news seems related to this thread topic; an NSF flyover at KSC shows that all 4 sections of the planned crew access tower for SLC-40 appear to be assembled. The foundation for the tower at SLC-40 may be done (my guess) so we could soon see tower sections being moved to that pad. Reminder for those not tracking this closely; NASA wants a backup pad for Dragon missions to the ISS in case something bad happens at LC-39A.

 

[ecarfan]

The new crew access tower at SLC-40 is slowly coming together. The first tower section is in place. Of course it’s slow progress because this is an active launch site.

The other sections of that tower can be seen at the Roberts Road facility.