Connected Solutions Real-World Experiences (MA - National Grid / EverSource)

[jsurpless]

Hey everyone

I was hoping that folks in Massachusetts could share their real-world experiences with Connected Solutions so far this year.

Asking because my mom lives in SE MA and has EverSource - her experience so far this year has been a bit disappointing. She's had overwhelming 3-hr events (18/20) with EverSource calling events almost every weekday for the last 3 weeks even when it was cool weather and/or cloudy out. This has resulted in only a 6.6 average kW discharge for the season which is a good deal lower than the relatively conservative estimates I'd made. Perhaps my estimates were too optimistic but also perhaps it has something to do with my estimates being based on National Grid events, as opposed to EverSource. Of course, they were also based on last summer so there's that possibility too.

So... could anyone share how their events are so far this year? I live in Bellingham and have National Grid - anyone out this way? I ask predominantly because I was counting on CS as a major offset to the cost of the PWs and this is weakening that offset.

Many thanks in advance!

 

[djlandkpl]

I received an email today from National Grid (MA). It looks like the reimbursement rate went from $225 to $275 and payment is by e-gift card.

Thank you for being a part of our National Grid ConnectedSolutions battery program! We are here to remind you how the program works so you can make the most of this summer rewards season, from June 1 through September 30.

How the program works​

• When energy use peaks during the hottest days of summer, your battery may receive a signal to automatically discharge to the grid.
• Your safety and comfort are our top priorities, that's why you can opt out of a peak demand event any time during the event. You're always in control.
• You’ll earn $275 per kW discharged and receive an e-gift card with your rewards at the end of each summer.

We have updated our Terms & Conditions. Please make sure to read:
• New Terms and Conditions have been added to the FAQ for select partners: Tesla, Enphase, SunPower, Sol-Ark, and Generac.
• Your address may be provided to the Massachusetts Department of Energy Resources for registration into the Clean Peak Program.

If you have any questions or if you would like to be unenrolled from the program, you can contact [email protected]. Otherwise, your participation in the program will continue under these new terms.

 

[jhn_]

I received an email today from National Grid (MA). It looks like the reimbursement rate went from $225 to $275 and payment is by e-gift card.

Thank you for being a part of our National Grid ConnectedSolutions battery program! We are here to remind you how the program works so you can make the most of this summer rewards season, from June 1 through September 30.

How the program works​

• When energy use peaks during the hottest days of summer, your battery may receive a signal to automatically discharge to the grid.
• Your safety and comfort are our top priorities, that's why you can opt out of a peak demand event any time during the event. You're always in control.
• You’ll earn $275 per kW discharged and receive an e-gift card with your rewards at the end of each summer.

We have updated our Terms & Conditions. Please make sure to read:
• New Terms and Conditions have been added to the FAQ for select partners: Tesla, Enphase, SunPower, Sol-Ark, and Generac.
• Your address may be provided to the Massachusetts Department of Energy Resources for registration into the Clean Peak Program.

If you have any questions or if you would like to be unenrolled from the program, you can contact [email protected]. Otherwise, your participation in the program will continue under these new terms.

For Tesla’s VPP with National Grid the payment will always come from Tesla. There is a blurb about the installer issuing payment on their website.

ConnectedSolutions | National Grid

Whether you are a homeowner or run a small business, ConnectedSolutions works with connected devices to reduce electric use during periods of high energy demand. Earn a $20 instant incentive, and a $25 annual incentive for every thermostat connected to a central air conditioner.

www.nationalgridus.com

The card thing is only if you enroll directly through National Grid.
Also mentioned in their site and the agreement you sign to enroll is that the rate is locked for the first five years. So the new $275 rate only applies to newly enrolled systems not existing participants. And also Tesla takes 20% of the listed National Grid rate for administering the VPP program.

 

[jhn_]

Different experience with the event today. Usually the solar charges only battery throughout the day until the event starts with the house being powered from the grid.
Today the solar charged the batteries and ran the house almost like a non-event day even though it says an event is actively charging in the app and will start discharging at 5pm.

 

[djlandkpl]

Different experience with the event today. Usually the solar charges only battery throughout the day until the event starts with the house being powered from the grid.
Today the solar charged the batteries and ran the house almost like a non-event day even though it says an event is actively charging in the app and will start discharging at 5pm.

I noticed the same behavior.

 

[jhn_]

Event discharged 5-7pm as scheduled. So that was a weird first. Maybe the demand was so high during the day that they changed the charging behavior so that the grid had less demand all day.

 

[aronth5]

Are people using this VPP with standalone Powerwalls or integrated with your solar system? I have 2 SunRun systems and am getting inconsistent information from them. Big surprise right! Have a call with them tomorrow so we'll see what they say.

 

[Will792]

Are people using this VPP with standalone Powerwalls or integrated with your solar system? I have 2 SunRun systems and am getting inconsistent information from them. Big surprise right! Have a call with them tomorrow so we'll see what they say.

most people have solar with PowerWalls but I do not believe that program requires it. it simply makes more economic sense to have solar charging PWs and use that power during evening peak consumption hours.

 

[qnzkrew]

most people have solar with PowerWalls but I do not believe that program requires it. it simply makes more economic sense to have solar charging PWs and use that power during evening peak consumption hours.

Talking on this subject, what is the limiting factor as to why we can’t charge the powerwalls from the grid. I understand the the connected solutions specifically says you can’t charge from the grid to be able to unload your powerwalls during an event but since Tesla now lets you toggle the setting to be able to charge from the grid my question is, how would national grid know that the powerwalls are charging from the grid or from solar unless tesla relays that information.

 

[Will792]

Talking on this subject, what is the limiting factor as to why we can’t charge the powerwalls from the grid. I understand the the connected solutions specifically says you can’t charge from the grid to be able to unload your powerwalls during an event but since Tesla now lets you toggle the setting to be able to charge from the grid my question is, how would national grid know that the powerwalls are charging from the grid or from solar unless tesla relays that information.

I am not sure. It is somewhat recently that Tesla app added an option to charge from the grid. Prior to that everyone was under the impression that US solar tax credit for PowerWalls requires disabling charging from the grid.

 

[qnzkrew]

I am not sure. It is somewhat recently that Tesla app added an option to charge from the grid. Prior to that everyone was under the impression that US solar tax credit for PowerWalls requires disabling charging from the grid.

Yeah that’s why I’m asking cuz since Tesla let’s you how would the grid know unless they require tesla to limit but it would be easier for tesla to just limit the user instead of giving us the choice lol

 

[aronth5]

Are people using this VPP with standalone Powerwalls or integrated with your solar system? I have a SunRun system installed 2018. and am getting inconsistent information from SunRun. Big surprise right! Have a call with them tomorrow so we'll see what they say.

Call with SunRun today and the only way they will quote a Powerwall(s) is for me to add a new 8 panel solar system that would fully cover my National Grid usage.. No retrofit option to my existing SunRun system. I expected this but wanted to hear something definitive. My backup system now is a gas generator which supports 6 circuits. If I purchased direct from Tesla and could charge the Powerwall(s) from the grid that might be an option but I'll likely just stay with what I have.

 

[manole]

Anyone get their check yet?

 

[masam]

Anyone get their check yet?

Seems a little early. If I remember correctly, I haven't received the check until January. Last year I got an email from Tesla that the check was on the way

 

[MASS-sunshine]

Does anyone know what being part of the SMART program here in MA actually gets me? I have had a legacy 6kw solar system that was on the house when i bought it 4 years ago. It was installed by Sunbug solar back in the day 10 years ago and the SREC payments were transferred to me of course when I bought the house - now that the system is 10 years old, the payments dropped WAY down to like 70 bucks every quarter, essentially worthless. Not a problem just a fact. Fast forward to last week, and Tesla just removed the old solar PV installation off the house and decommissioned everything in prep for installing solar roof and 4 powerwalls. Now, with the old legacy system gone, my question is 1. Was this SREC thing I had been getting, was that the SMART program? or is SMART something different? And if so, since I've had net metering for 10 years here and just fell down into the "B credits" or whatever at the very low rate of 70 bucks per quarter, will my new Tesla solar roof be eligible for a new SMART program where I can get some decent credits back, or is it not worth it for me, because I won't be eligible perhaps because the house already had solar for 10 years and benefitted greatly already from the credits? It has extra large importance now as it turns out, because it may determine whether I can use my PW's to backup the WHOLE house versus just backing up 1 of the 200A panels. Apparently, it's the SMART program that prevents me in MA from being able to exceed 200A of backup. But if the SMART program isn't worth much of anything to me, then I'll just forego it completely and backup all loads. Hope this makes sense, let me know what you all think. Thank you.

 

[jhn_]

Anyone get their check yet?

Payments are made after the end of the calendar year. Expect January or February.

https://www.tesla.com/support/energy/virtual-power-plant/connectedsolutions

 

[jhn_]

Does anyone know what being part of the SMART program here in MA actually gets me? I have had a legacy 6kw solar system that was on the house when i bought it 4 years ago. It was installed by Sunbug solar back in the day 10 years ago and the SREC payments were transferred to me of course when I bought the house - now that the system is 10 years old, the payments dropped WAY down to like 70 bucks every quarter, essentially worthless. Not a problem just a fact. Fast forward to last week, and Tesla just removed the old solar PV installation off the house and decommissioned everything in prep for installing solar roof and 4 powerwalls. Now, with the old legacy system gone, my question is 1. Was this SREC thing I had been getting, was that the SMART program? or is SMART something different? And if so, since I've had net metering for 10 years here and just fell down into the "B credits" or whatever at the very low rate of 70 bucks per quarter, will my new Tesla solar roof be eligible for a new SMART program where I can get some decent credits back, or is it not worth it for me, because I won't be eligible perhaps because the house already had solar for 10 years and benefitted greatly already from the credits? It has extra large importance now as it turns out, because it may determine whether I can use my PW's to backup the WHOLE house versus just backing up 1 of the 200A panels. Apparently, it's the SMART program that prevents me in MA from being able to exceed 200A of backup. But if the SMART program isn't worth much of anything to me, then I'll just forego it completely and backup all loads. Hope this makes sense, let me know what you all think. Thank you.

SMART is a declining rate block program. If all the blocks are filled there is. $0 rate and as they fill the rate above $0 are lessened. Since 2020 they have filled mostly. If there is any space left to sign up in a block you would find it here:

https://www.mass.gov/doc/declining-smart-incentive-rates/download

But yes, SMART is basically SREC and they are assigned as much to the system. Once the system is removed you don’t get the credits anymore for either.

 

[MASS-sunshine]

SMART is a declining rate block program. If all the blocks are filled there is. $0 rate and as they fill the rate above $0 are lessened. Since 2020 they have filled mostly. If there is any space left to sign up in a block you would find it here:

https://www.mass.gov/doc/declining-smart-incentive-rates/download

But yes, SMART is basically SREC and they are assigned as much to the system. Once the system is removed you don’t get the credits anymore for either.

Ok, appreciate the insight - but the lingering question is 'when the new solar roof from Tesla is installed and activated (in 1 month), will I be eligible to start the program over because it is a new system, and get sizable payments quarterly as I had gotten from the SREC program on the old Sunbug installation that was on our roof until last week?' If not, that is okay with me, but then I would want to tell my PA that I don't care to be part of SMART, and so the limitation of only being able to backup 1 of my 200A panels would no longer exist - opening the door for the installers to simply backup everything during grid outages, not just the items on "Panel 1 we'll call it".

 

[jsurpless]

Unfortunately, SMART program is essentially worthless now, at least in my personal experience... my rate is something like $0.03/kWh and from what I am told, this is actually a relatively high rate.

 

[adspguy]

Does anyone know what being part of the SMART program here in MA actually gets me? I have had a legacy 6kw solar system that was on the house when i bought it 4 years ago. It was installed by Sunbug solar back in the day 10 years ago and the SREC payments were transferred to me of course when I bought the house - now that the system is 10 years old, the payments dropped WAY down to like 70 bucks every quarter, essentially worthless. Not a problem just a fact. Fast forward to last week, and Tesla just removed the old solar PV installation off the house and decommissioned everything in prep for installing solar roof and 4 powerwalls. Now, with the old legacy system gone, my question is 1. Was this SREC thing I had been getting, was that the SMART program? or is SMART something different? And if so, since I've had net metering for 10 years here and just fell down into the "B credits" or whatever at the very low rate of 70 bucks per quarter, will my new Tesla solar roof be eligible for a new SMART program where I can get some decent credits back, or is it not worth it for me, because I won't be eligible perhaps because the house already had solar for 10 years and benefitted greatly already from the credits? It has extra large importance now as it turns out, because it may determine whether I can use my PW's to backup the WHOLE house versus just backing up 1 of the 200A panels. Apparently, it's the SMART program that prevents me in MA from being able to exceed 200A of backup. But if the SMART program isn't worth much of anything to me, then I'll just forego it completely and backup all loads. Hope this makes sense, let me know what you all think. Thank you.

SMART adds a generation meter which the utility directly reads. This is used to capture how much power you've generated.

The price rate for generation in SMART consists of two parts, the normal generation amount (which may be down to or close to 0 now) and a storage adder which is probably still a few cents/kWh. There are 10 blocks of predetermined rates with limited numbers in each block, with lower rates in subsequent blocks.

Which block you would be in depends on which utility, where you are located, and how many blocks that have been used up. The SMART storage adder requires your system to discharge a 52 equivalent cycles per year to qualify for it. This requirement is waived if your system is enrolled in connected solutions (which the utility controls the discharge). I had no problem with SMART when I installed my 12.4kW-DC, 10kW-AC system with 3 powerwalls installed in 2020 with whole house backup. I was in block 4 and get a total of 13.8 cents/kWh of which 4.3 cents is from the storage adder.

It looks like Newburyport is in National Grid(mass electric) territory and their SMART program blocks appear to be full according to this site. If that is true, there is no point worrying about SMART. You should check which block if any they say you'd be in, and not trust me or the site I linked.

Connected solutions still looks to be viable, the rates aren't dropping. See national grid link for details. For this, more powerwalls is better. You get paid for the discharge rate for a 2 or 3 hour discharge of your batteries from full down to about 20%. My discharge rate with 3 powerwalls is either 10kW for 3 hours or 15kW for 2 dependent on the utilities discharge request.

National grid's rate is $275/kW and locks in for 5 years. I've been getting about $700 per powerwall for the summer participation on Eversource. The utility may limit your total power export due to transformers in your neighborhood etc.

Good luck with your solar roof.

 

[MASS-sunshine]

SMART adds a generation meter which the utility directly reads. This is used to capture how much power you've generated.

The price rate for generation in SMART consists of two parts, the normal generation amount (which may be down to or close to 0 now) and a storage adder which is probably still a few cents/kWh. There are 10 blocks of predetermined rates with limited numbers in each block, with lower rates in subsequent blocks.

Which block you would be in depends on which utility, where you are located, and how many blocks that have been used up. The SMART storage adder requires your system to discharge a 52 equivalent cycles per year to qualify for it. This requirement is waived if your system is enrolled in connected solutions (which the utility controls the discharge). I had no problem with SMART when I installed my 12.4kW-DC, 10kW-AC system with 3 powerwalls installed in 2020 with whole house backup. I was in block 4 and get a total of 13.8 cents/kWh of which 4.3 cents is from the storage adder.

It looks like Newburyport is in National Grid(mass electric) territory and their SMART program blocks appear to be full according to this site. If that is true, there is no point worrying about SMART. You should check which block if any they say you'd be in, and not trust me or the site I linked.

Connected solutions still looks to be viable, the rates aren't dropping. See national grid link for details. For this, more powerwalls is better. You get paid for the discharge rate for a 2 or 3 hour discharge of your batteries from full down to about 20%. My discharge rate with 3 powerwalls is either 10kW for 3 hours or 15kW for 2 dependent on the utilities discharge request.

National grid's rate is $275/kW and locks in for 5 years. I've been getting about $700 per powerwall for the summer participation on Eversource. The utility may limit your total power export due to transformers in your neighborhood etc.

Good luck with your solar roof.

Thanks a TON, this is very helpful - I did confirm that yes, National Grid territory is at block 10 here and essentially full/worthless. I think this makes SMART overall darn near worthless to me - which again is fine, I had it good for a very long time on the old system. I am enrolled in Connected Solutions for the upcoming solar roof (at least I did all the paperwork for it long ago), and now that my install is coming up in a month or so, I look forward to that stipend for letting them drain my PW's - I will have 4 PowerWalls (2 plus devices and 2 'regular' PW). Hopefully that means i can achieve close to your numbers in terms of financial payment for allowing Natty Grid the priviledge. Now the only question will be if we can achieve a whole house backup (2x200A panels nearly fully loaded), instead of just the 1 to be designated 'backed up loads panel'. Thank you again for the excellent insight.