Consumer Reports: "The electric car that shatters every myth"

[StephenM]

Yeah, I have sent out a few articles to my family and friends. But after the CR article I had a LOT of family and friends send it to me (as if I didn't see it), as well as coworkers and friends that just know I have a Model S but don't talk to them (yeah I talk to everyone about my Model S some) much about it.

My mother in law has been playfully harassing me about buying it. She said I needed to wait for CR (she uses them to guide seemingly all her purchasing decisions) report. My wife says I should send her the video first, then the article. All the ammo she will have left is the price tag.

I'm experiencing this too. Before, I was the one gushing about the brand, and now I'm hearing comments from people about:
1) the incredible run-up in the stock as of late, and

2) the incredible review that CR gave the Model S (they're posting it up on facebook and linking me, as if I didn't know about it, hahaha!)

This is another catalyst/milestone for Tesla. Motor Trend was the first really big boon and now this.

Go Tesla. Go Elon!

 

[neroden]

Weather makes a difference in every car. It's just that most cars don't have enough instrumentation to make you aware of it, so when you get a car that has some decent instrumentation it's a surprise--unless you have kept a logbook, then you'll know this already.

There really is another factor: most ICE cars are so horrendously inefficient that they can heat the car using waste heat. During the summer... they just dump the waste heat into the air. Model S isn't generating waste heat, it's only generating the heat you need, and you see the difference in *improved mileage during the summer*, which is perhaps the correct way to think about it.

 

[jerry33]

There really is another factor: most ICE cars are so horrendously inefficient that they can heat the car using waste heat. During the summer... they just dump the waste heat into the air. Model S isn't generating waste heat, it's only generating the heat you need, and you see the difference in *improved mileage during the summer*, which is perhaps the correct way to think about it.

Yes that's one way to look at it, but I don't know of any ICE car that doesn't lose MPG in the winter. There is more than just waste engine heat, which might be considered almost trivial because an ICE car has waste engine heat all year round. More in summer than winter actually. Major factors are:

1. Cold air is denser.

2. Engine/battery warm-up is longer. You can mitigate this a bit in a BEV by pre-warming and setting the end of charge time, but not in an ICE car.

3. Water or snow on the road greatly increase rolling resistance.

4. Winter fuel formulation has a lower BTU content. (ICE cars only.)

 

[neroden]

I agree with everything you say, jerry. However, the seemingly large drop in mileage in the winter for the Model S appears to be almost entirely due to the cabin and battery heating. You get that heat as a "freebie" in an ICE car due to its inefficiency, which is why people don't see such large summer/winter mileage differences in ICE cars. An ICE car with a separate cabin heater would have truly massive summer/winter mileage differences.

 

[Doug_G]

I agree with everything you say, jerry. However, the seemingly large drop in mileage in the winter for the Model S appears to be almost entirely due to the cabin and battery heating. You get that heat as a "freebie" in an ICE car due to its inefficiency, which is why people don't see such large summer/winter mileage differences in ICE cars. An ICE car with a separate cabin heater would have truly massive summer/winter mileage differences.

I don't agree on any of the above points. People don't see large summer/winter mileage differences with ICE cars because they don't look. They experience the very same losses but simply aren't aware of it.

The cabin heat, when the car is fully warmed up and running in Range mode, doesn't take much power.

The pack heater isn't an issue either once the car is warmed up - the normal losses during highway driving are sufficient to keep the pack warm enough except in very extreme temperatures (below -25C).

If the car is thoroughly cold soaked, then yes, both the cabin heater and pack heater take large amounts of power. But that is only until the car is warmed up. If you are planning a long trip you can prewarm your car easily enough.

 

[dhrivnak]

Sorry Doug but I do look as i have recorded EVERY tank full of gas. While i do see a winter drop in my ICE cars the 5-10% drop pales to the 25% drop i see in the Roadster. Electric heat uses many KW where that is mostly waste heat in an ICE.

 

[Zythryn]

Sorry Doug but I do look as i have recorded EVERY tank full of gas. While i do see a winter drop in my ICE cars the 5-10% drop pales to the 25% drop i see in the Roadster. Electric heat uses many KW where that is mostly waste heat in an ICE.

20% drop in mpg efficiency in our winters in Minnesota.
There is additional loss in an EV, however, two-thirds of the loss we have tracked happens in an ICE as well.

 

[Doug_G]

Sorry Doug but I do look as i have recorded EVERY tank full of gas. While i do see a winter drop in my ICE cars the 5-10% drop pales to the 25% drop i see in the Roadster. Electric heat uses many KW where that is mostly waste heat in an ICE.

From what I've seen, the Roadster's HVAC system is not nearly as efficient as the Model S's. When I do road trips with it in the winter, I turn off the heat entirely and use the seat heater. And long johns. In comparison, the Model S with heat in Range mode doesn't really impact the range that much.

Somehow I doubt Tennessee sees the kind of temperatures we get here!

 

[GeekGirls]

Sorry Doug but I do look as i have recorded EVERY tank full of gas. While i do see a winter drop in my ICE cars the 5-10% drop pales to the 25% drop i see in the Roadster. Electric heat uses many KW where that is mostly waste heat in an ICE.

Cold is definitely the worst case for an EV, in part because that waste heat becomes an asset for an ICE which arguably becomes more efficient when it's cold. That excess heat is more of a problem when it's hot out, so I'd be curious about a year-round comparison in a variety of climates.

 

[jerry33]

25% is a pretty common drop for an ICE car at -18C (0F). Of course, a lot depends upon trip length and speed.

 

[PhilBa]

My Prius typically averages 47-48 MPG in the summer and 40-42 in the winter for the same type of driving. Not quite 15%. Winter temps average low 40s, summer mid 70s. There are a number of factors that contribute - rain makes for higher wind/rolling resistance, need to keep the engine hot (it shuts off at times), ethanol mix in the gas. Rain seems to cost about 2 MPG regardless of the season. Keeping the engine up to operating temp causes the majority of the efficiency loss. It simply runs more in the winter.

 

[Soflason]

"Consumer Reports is calling the Tesla Model S the best car it ever tested." quoting Peter Valdes-Dapena from CNN -- featured right on the home page of TM's website now (on the bottom right), a nice nod to the CR article...

 

[lolachampcar]

So you can not use CR to advertise your car but you can use CNN (who CR uses to advertise CR) to reference CR to advertise your car. NICE.

 

[brianman]

So you can not use CR to advertise your car but you can use CNN (who CR uses to advertise CR) to reference CR to advertise your car. NICE.

Of course it wouldn't be admissible in court. "Heresay."

 

[Zaxxon]

FWIW, my dead tree edition of the Consumer Reports issue containing the Model S review arrived today. I know the review results have been in the news for much of the month, but I think the true impact on Model S interest would have started this week as issues began to arrive at subscriber homes.

 

[brianman]

FWIW, my dead tree edition of the Consumer Reports issue containing the Model S review arrived today. I know the review results have been in the news for much of the month, but I think the true impact on Model S interest would have started this week as issues began to arrive at subscriber homes.

Sweet. I wonder if it's on newsstands.

 

[Robecology]

This report, the Motor trend report, and a test drive did it for me. I'm sold. I'll have mine soon. Trying to decide if I should go to the NE (from Florida) this summer, or wait a few months for the superchargers (Supercharger | Tesla Motors) to be installed.

Robecology

 

[vfx]

CR has given terrible reviews to both the new Infiniti and Lexus Lux cars. http://www.autoblog.com/2013/10/22/2014-infiniti-q50-lexus-is-250-not-recommended-consumer-reports/

I truely believe that Tesla has spoiled them. Elon and Co has raised the bar. Electrics are the future and CR is pushing that message.

 

[astrotoy]

CR has given terrible reviews to both the new Infiniti and Lexus Lux cars. http://www.autoblog.com/2013/10/22/2014-infiniti-q50-lexus-is-250-not-recommended-consumer-reports/

I truely believe that Tesla has spoiled them. Elon and Co has raised the bar. Electrics are the future and CR is pushing that message.

Not sure I completely agree. The Lexus they reviewed is the IS250, which I think has always been a mediocre car, at a low price point, definitely not a LUX car. What I would like to see is if they review the LS460 which has a similar price point to the Model S and which they gave their first 99 score back in 2007, what that score would be, compared with the Model S.