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Discussion in 'Europe' started by Eberhard, Mar 2, 2011.
talk to Rolec... they intend to become *the* source of low cost, high quality cables :smile:
I can build you a cable to do that rated for 70A. Better would be a 70A cable M to Tesla Roadster which I have sent to a few people. It's similar to TM's cable but rated for 70A and cheaper.
The Model S will have a native Mennekes socket
I would like to place my concern here in this thread because I figgured it will hit the guys that may know.
With high interest I have read this fred about plug and Play around with all sort of Options regarding getting the most power into the tesla Roadster from the best available source.
I would like to Charge the Roadster with solar power. Thats nothing new. Since I have no rush to Charge it fast I want to use a rather small set up. The System will produce max. 10 amps but the current can varyate depending on sun activety. I know that the energy should be saved in batery first and they would provide constant power, but I would prefer a System where the produced power is charged no more and no less. If I want to Charge fast I will use the grid. I can not instal a grid feeding pv System. It should remain independend.
what is the Minimum current acceppted by the Roadster?
What happens if the current is becomming less is fluctuating?
Voltage Drops are compensted I have noticed while charging, so that is not the Problem.
Once a charging source is beiing conected the car is comunication with the source and negotiating the max power. You say that below 16 amps there is no negotiation. The tesla takes what he gets offered?
Now the last question. If I wanted to Charge directly with DC, how is it possible to Bypass the Tesla AC-DC charger?
One of the members is suggesting to produce 3 Phase power with a Motor and feed the Tesla with it. Is that not the same as recuperating/regen enegy with the tesla Motor?
How is the Charge forwarded to the ESS ? Would it be possible just to have the weels turn with some set up in order to Charge with up to 40 amps?
Please let me know if someone has an idea about a minimum PV System for charging a Roadster with up to approx. 14 amps as Long as the sun is shining. What Kind of Inverter can supply sufficient current flow so that the Roadster will Charge continiously? I figgure there must be at least enough power to run the charging Systems (Inverter,cooling, fan and so on) in order to pass the remaining current. So there must be a Minimum voltage/current specs and shup down time specs in case of fluctuation ... what are those specs?
sorry for my english ... I am from Germany
It's difficult and not as efficient to charge the Roadster directly from a solar panel inverter. There are other threads that discuss this in greater detail. The Roadster charges much more efficiently at higher amps so storage batteries will pay for themselves in the long run. The Roadster is also finicky about its power supply and storage batteries will help smooth the output and allow the inverter to run more efficiently. If the solar array cannot supply the minimum amps, then the voltage may drop below the threshold where the Roadster will stop charging. In Europe you should be OK because most power supplies are 230v or more but the inverter will usually cut out if it cannot maintain the voltage at the amps the Roadster is pulling. To charge directly, you would have to use a single-phase inverter.
You are correct that the Roadster will pull 10 or 13A (depending on settings on the VDS) if there is no pilot signal telling it differently. So if you want to automatically charge with the most amps available, you would have to build a device that produces a pilot signal and communicates with the solar power supply. If only 10A are available, it has to produce a 10A pilot, then if the sun exposure improves, it could change the pilot to 12 or 14A. The Roadster responds to a change in the pilot signal in a few milliseconds. The Model S is different. It will respond only to a falling pilot signal (last firmware). I think the euro spec Roadster will charge as low as 10A (somebody correct me if I'm wrong) at 230v up to 70A. The North American version will do 12A (120v) up to 70A 240v.
As for DC charging, it would require substantial modifications to do this. Elon Musk has said the Roadster was not designed for it and contains the wrong hardware. I think a better idea is to use a modern inverter, most of which are 95 percent efficient. If you can make one that is small, light weight, inexpensive, and handle 32A continuous, many European Roadster owners would consider you a hero.
I hope this helps.
thank you HC! Yes you are correct. 10 Amps ist possible. I have a swiss Version Roadster that is limited to 10 amps when the spare conector is conected. That is the only cable I got :-(
regarding PV System I am Aware that it should deliver at least 10 amps at worst conditions so that the Inverter will run. I never understood why I should install tonns of batteries when I can get 10 amps form solar Panels during day time continiousely. That is why I asked if you know an Inverter that will Kind of take that continious Charge (give or take Input) and deliver at least 10 amps. The tesla is constantly takeing 10 amps regardless of the fan blowing or not. seemes that the available power is split inside of the tesla for charging and running on the side Systems. So i am looking for a smart Inverter that can take fluctuating Input and deliver solid amps. that can't be a efficient Inverter because it will ask for more than it will deliver in order to Keep it stable. so fluctuation tops will be cut of the top and transfered into heat. if the Inverter is very smart he would take missing Input power due to fluctiations from the grid. Or for example if I set the charging to use sun as Long it is possible and the rest by grid the Inverter will Change to grid as soon as sun has gone. remember, as Long as there is light there schould be enough power for the inverter to produce at least 10 amps ... that is what I like
I checkt other threads but they discuss always grid charging Systems. I can not deliver to the grid because in spain (where I live) it won't be paid for and if a System is deliverig to the grid it involves lots of Permits. PV System that is independend and drawing power FROM the grid in case of Need is ok and still independend.
What Inverter do I Need? It must deliver 220V 10 amps
There are threads that discuss charging directly from solar and why it's not efficient. The system you are proposing would require at least 4kW of panels to charge the Roadster's battery, but you would only need about 2 kW of panels with storage batteries or grid tied to get the same amount of energy into Roadster's pack. I'm not sure you understand that charging at 30A is about 50% more efficient than 10A. Not to mention the losses associated with using an inverter that has to dump excess load most of the time just so it can work a few hrs a day.
no I don't understand why 30 A charging is more efficient than 10 A ... is this the case as well charging of the grid? You are saying that e.g. charging of the grid with a UMC at 30A is 50% more effient than charging at 10A (or 16A) with a Spare Mobile Connector? 50%??? By efficent you can only refer to time. I don't care about the time.
To say it again : I Need a solar set up that can Charge the Roadster of grid at lowest cost possible within a time Frame of several days. I don't use the Roadster often. Would be fine if it can Charge relexed by solar untill I use it again. If I Need it full fast I can always Charge of the grid ... most efficently.
At 30A, the overhead losses (battery temperature management and balancing which varies based on time and not a set percentage of the charge rate) are a lower percentage of the charge than at 10A. That's why 30A is more efficient.
My wife and I bought a Roadster 2.5 a couple of months ago and thoroughly enjoy it. We are based in Switzerland.
We have a type 2 cable that allows us to charge in EVSE's that have a type 2 socket. However we cannot use stations that have a cable permanently attached to them. Some people have suggested that we build a box that would have a male-socket on one side and a female-socket on the other. This would be a kludge but if that's possible (is it?), that might work...
One idea I would like to offer to the European Roadster owner community is the following:
Given that Europe has adopted type 2 as a standard, could we collectively lobby Tesla Europe and push them to develop a modification to our cars that would turn this awkward/heavy/expensive connector into a type-2 connector a-la Model S? I suspect most of us would consider paying even 2000 dollars to have our cars modified if it's done by Tesla. The benefits would be the following:
- Ability to use whatever type-2 cable instead of depending on an expensive cable that can be stolen
- Possibility to charge at stations that have a cable attached. I see that in particular stations that can offer 63A/43kW typically have the cable attached. Indeed, wouldn't you like to charge twice as fast at one of these? We saw a couple in Bordeaux last weekend and these got us drooling...
What do you think? Is this something we could push? Would you support this? How should we go about making this happen? I know precious little about these forums and how to use them.
Your experience/help/guidance on this would be greatly appreciated. Given you post below, I can tell you are seriously focused on making our cars better so I suspect you will agree that this option would make a lot of sense...
I venture that, given that Type-2 has become the European standard, Tesla wouldn't have to hard a time in getting this mod approved by the European homologation body...
That sounds like a good plan. Else the next best thing would be a Type 2 version of HC Sharp's famous Can.
Another advantage would be the ability to use the Model S UMC
I do not see this happening as Tesla will not invest anymore in the Roadster. I also have a 70A cable of HC Sharp. We Roadster owners should find the ways to improve ourselves. Also in the Netherlands we expect to see ABB 63A chargers with a connected cable to Mennekes.
I think the best way is to built a box with a male and female connections to attach the fixed cable tot the 70A cable to Roadster adapter. Does anyone know where to purchase these 2 connectors? After I have received them it should be quite easy to mount them in a box.
Interesting photo. Is it the following?
1) type 2 cable permanently installed on EVSE
2) very small type 2 to type 1 converter (sockets on both ends)
3) type 1 to type 1 cable (plugs on both ends)
4) hcsharp CAN type 1 to Roadster adaptor
5) a really, really cool looking red Roadster. :love:
Roadster to type-2 adapter
Thanks for your responses!
Actually, I'd love to skip the type-1 intermediate step and go straight to Mennekes...
I just found a post by Doug (dating back to 2011...) quoting HC Sharp with a pic of a Roadster to type-2 adapter. I'd love to get one.
Are they still made? How much current will they support? A full 63A? Just 32A?
Can someone point me to whoever makes this (I confess I am a bit lost...)?
Here is the pic on the post, to refresh your memories...
hcsharp is on this forum. Try sending him a PM to ask.
This is really cool. I want.
Allows me to take the roadster all over Germany, Europe.
Too bad it will no longer pass CE testing. That one actually needs a different socket on the end because they changed the standard after I made it.
The rapid chargers have a Type 2 permanently installed cable that can deliver 60A 3 Phase (~40kW).
We modify a Type 2 to Type 1 cable by removing 14mm from the end of the Type 2 connector as shown here;
Charging Tesla Roadster at 60A on AC rapids | Speak EV - Electric Car Forums
The Type 2 to Type 1 cable will then plug into the rapid charger Type 2 cable connector.
We then use Henry's CAN to convert Type 1 to Roadster.
I believe 5 or 6 UK Roadster owners are now using modified cables and charging at 60A :smile:
The great thing is that with just this modified cable and Henry's CAN we can plug into any public Type 2 Charging Station, Type 1 Charging Station, Type 2 rapids, and HPCs. In the UK this gives us ~70 locations with 60A or greater charging.
Does anyone own this? Did Tesla ever put details online?