Coronavirus

[shinytop]

Who do you think corrupts government? Big business in an open market. We need to get real draconian on corrupt elected officials and the corrupt businessmen who corrupt them.

 

[bkp_duke]

Who do you think corrupts government? Big business in an open market. We need to get real draconian on corrupt elected officials and the corrupt businessmen who corrupt them.

Spot on.

But the job of government is NOT to run private enterprises (show me where this has EVER ended well). You REALLY want government telling you how to live your life (you don't get healthcare unless you exercise X times per week).

The job of government is to make the laws, and enforce them.

If the government didn't do that, we should all take a hard look at who we elected.

Socialism, of any form, never works out better for the public. Never.

 

[bkp_duke]

In agreement as long as the government isn't hamstrung the way it is now by not be able to have competitive bids. Having competitive bids is what the industry is scared of as it would kill their profits.

Agreed, but only those currently in the industry are scared of competition. Those that are entrepreneurs would love to come into healthcare and disrupt. Hell, even Elon has been eying disrupting parts of the healthcare system (mRNA printers, etc.).

 

[bkp_duke]

Medicare.

It's not government RUN, not directly. Dig into it, it's actually a big pot of money dolled out by the Gov that 3rd parties all compete for (insurers, hospitals, physicians). Gov as 3rd party insurer, NOT as the actual service provider (physicians, hospitals, etc.).

I don't have a problem with the Gov providing insurance (i.e. competing in the industry).

I have a problem with them TAKING OVER everything, owning the hospitals (have you ever been to the VA?), directing the physicians on what they can and cannot do (insurers are bad enough with this), etc.

 

[JRP3]

Socialism, of any form, never works out better for the public. Never.

Except for all the countries which are able to provide good health care for their citizens. You are literally denying reality.

 

[bkp_duke]

Except for all the countries which are able to provide good health care for their citizens. You are literally denying reality.

We've been down that route. They really are NOT providing good care. I have a cousin that is a physician in Canada. He has repeatedly confirmed that as a patient, you simply CANNOT walk in to a clinic and be seen for most common conditions. Wait lists are the norm, care is RATIONED out.

YOU are literally denying that reality. It's the same in the UK. Months ago we had this discussion, and I posted the wait times and higher death rates from various (common) diseases in the UK and their socialized system. Plain facts, and yet you conveniently forget it.
Fewer emergency surgeries, more deaths in British hospitals vs U.S.

"When patients in England or the U.S. have abdominal emergencies like appendicitis or a ruptured aneurysm, half as many in England get surgery and many more die, a new study suggests.

Deaths in the hospital were significantly higher in England for all seven types of abdominal emergencies analyzed in the study, suggesting that some of these deaths might be attributable to not having received surgery to correct the problem, researchers write in Annals of Surgery."

"Patients in England, for example, were 4.25 times as likely as those in the U.S. to receive noncorrective care for ruptured aortic aneurysm and 8.53 times as likely with appendicitis."

The US system is FAR from perfect, but everyone thinking "make it free for everyone" has zero concept of how that would turn out (mass physician retirements, shortages of critical medicine, delayed surgeries, etc.).

It's the whole "keep your doctor" pitch we heard for Obamacare, and we know how THAT turned out (the vast majority could NOT keep their doctor - for the record).

 

[MXLRplus]

Except for all the countries which are able to provide good health care for their citizens. You are literally denying reality.

I'm honestly curious. Why would you want to live the US? Especially since you can't get good healthcare here. Living here could literally kill you. I wouldn't stay if I thought that.

 

[JRP3]

We've been down that route. They really are NOT providing good care.

Best Healthcare In The World 2021

 

[bkp_duke]

Best Healthcare In The World 2021
View attachment 631180

HA HA HA. They don't even have any citations for sources on that "article" (more a blog post). It quotes other "news articles". No scientific studies of any kind cited.

 

[uujjj2]

California's vaccination campaign started off quite slow but the pace has picked up considerably:

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Mr. Uujjj's elderly family members finally got their first shots, in Alameda and Los Angeles Counties. Yay!

 

[MXLRplus]

This is not an anonymous website (Newsweek), but they might not agree with you:
Best Specialized Hospitals in the World, Heart Disease:

1 Cleveland Clinic Miller Family Heart, Vascular & Thoracic Institute Cleveland, OH United States
2 Mayo Clinic - Rochester Department of Cardiovascular Medicine Rochester, MN United States
3 Brigham And Women's Hospital Heart & Vascular Center Boston, MA United States
4 Massachusetts General Hospital Corrigan Minehan Heart Center Boston, MA United States
5 The Mount Sinai Hospital Mount Sinai Heart New York, NY United States
6 The Johns Hopkins Hospital Heart and Vascular Institute Baltimore, MD United States
7 Cedars-Sinai Medical Center Smidt Heart Institute Los Angeles, CA United States
8 New York-Presbyterian Hospital-Columbia and Cornell NewYork-Presbyterian Heart New York, NY United States
9 Universitätsklinikum Heidelberg Krehl Klinik (Innere Medizin III) Heidelberg Germany
10 Royal Brompton Hospital Royal Brompton Hospital London United Kingdom
11 Hospital Universitario La Paz Cardiología Madrid Spain
12 Hôpital Universitaire Pitié Salpêtrière Département de Cardiologie Paris France
13 National Cerebral and Cardiovascular Center National Cerebral and Cardiovascular Center Suita Japan
14 NYU Langone Hospitals Cardiology and Heart Surgery New York, NY United States
15 Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania - Penn Presbyterian Primary Cardiology Philadelphia, PA United States
16 Helios Kliniken Herzzentrum Leipzig Leipzig Germany
17 University of Michigan Hospitals - Michigan Medicine Frankel Cardiovascular Center Ann Arbor, MI United States
18 Universitätsspital Zürich Universitäres Herzzentrum Zürich Zurich Switzerland
19 Herz- und Diabeteszentrum NRW Klinik für Allgemeine und Interventionelle Kardiologie Bad Oeynhausen Germany
20 Duke University Hospital Division of Cardiology Durham, NC United States

Best Specialized Hospitals in the World, Cancer:

1 MD Anderson Cancer Center MD Anderson Cancer Center Houston, TX United States
2 Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center New York, NY United States
3 Dana-Farber Cancer Institute Dana-Farber Cancer Institute Boston, MA United States
4 Mayo Clinic - Rochester Department of Oncology Rochester, MN United States
5 Institut Gustave Roussy Institut Gustave Roussy Villejuif France
6 Charité - Universitätsmedizin Berlin Charité Comprehensive Cancer Center Berlin Germany
7 Asan Medical Center Asan Cancer Institute Seoul South Korea
8 The Johns Hopkins Hospital The Sidney Kimmel Comprehensive Cancer Center Baltimore, MD United States
9 Samsung Medical Center Samsung Comprehensive Cancer Center Seoul South Korea
10 The Princess Margaret Cancer Centre The Princess Margaret Cancer Centre Toronto Canada
11 IEO - Istituto Europeo di Oncologia IEO - Istituto Europeo di Oncologia Milan Italy
12 Seoul National University Hospital SNU Cancer Hospital Seoul South Korea
13 The Royal Marsden Hospital - London The Royal Marsden Hospital - London London United Kingdom
14 Hospital Universitario La Paz Department of Oncology Madrid Spain
15 Fondazione IRCCS Istituto Nazionale dei Tumori Milan Italy
16 National Cancer Center Hospital National Cancer Center Hospital Tokyo Japan
17 Cleveland Clinic Cleveland Clinic Cancer Center Cleveland, OH United States
18 The Catholic University Of Korea - Seoul St. Mary’s Hospital Department of Oncology Seoul South Korea
19 Universitätsklinikum Köln Innere Medizin I Cologne Germany
20 Hospital Universitari Vall d'Hebron Department of Oncology Barcelona Spain

 

[uujjj2]

The US vaccination program is actually going pretty well right now. We can't compare ourselves to tiny countries like the UAE and Israel. For that matter, California can't be compared to tiny states like North Dakota either. mRNA is a new technology, and the manufacturing capacity and supply chain for mRNA vaccines is basically new. Given that, the pace of vaccination is as quick as we should have reasonably expected.

 

[JRP3]

HA HA HA. They don't even have any citations for sources on that "article" (more a blog post). It quotes other "news articles". No scientific studies of any kind cited.

The U.S. spends more on health care as a share of the economy — nearly twice as much as the average OECD country — yet has the lowest life expectancy and highest suicide rates among the 11 nations.

U.S. Health Care from a Global Perspective, 2019 | Commonwealth Fund

The U.S. ranks last in a measure of health care access and quality, indicating higher rates of amenable mortality than peer countries

How does the quality of the U.S. healthcare system compare to other countries? - Peterson-KFF Health System Tracker

 

[Yuri_G]

This is not an anonymous website (Newsweek), but they might not agree with you:
Best Specialized Hospitals in the World, Heart Disease:

1 Cleveland Clinic Miller Family Heart, Vascular & Thoracic Institute Cleveland, OH United States
2 Mayo Clinic - Rochester Department of Cardiovascular Medicine Rochester, MN United States
3 Brigham And Women's Hospital Heart & Vascular Center Boston, MA United States
4 Massachusetts General Hospital Corrigan Minehan Heart Center Boston, MA United States
5 The Mount Sinai Hospital Mount Sinai Heart New York, NY United States
6 The Johns Hopkins Hospital Heart and Vascular Institute Baltimore, MD United States
7 Cedars-Sinai Medical Center Smidt Heart Institute Los Angeles, CA United States
8 New York-Presbyterian Hospital-Columbia and Cornell NewYork-Presbyterian Heart New York, NY United States
9 Universitätsklinikum Heidelberg Krehl Klinik (Innere Medizin III) Heidelberg Germany
10 Royal Brompton Hospital Royal Brompton Hospital London United Kingdom
11 Hospital Universitario La Paz Cardiología Madrid Spain
12 Hôpital Universitaire Pitié Salpêtrière Département de Cardiologie Paris France
13 National Cerebral and Cardiovascular Center National Cerebral and Cardiovascular Center Suita Japan
14 NYU Langone Hospitals Cardiology and Heart Surgery New York, NY United States
15 Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania - Penn Presbyterian Primary Cardiology Philadelphia, PA United States
16 Helios Kliniken Herzzentrum Leipzig Leipzig Germany
17 University of Michigan Hospitals - Michigan Medicine Frankel Cardiovascular Center Ann Arbor, MI United States
18 Universitätsspital Zürich Universitäres Herzzentrum Zürich Zurich Switzerland
19 Herz- und Diabeteszentrum NRW Klinik für Allgemeine und Interventionelle Kardiologie Bad Oeynhausen Germany
20 Duke University Hospital Division of Cardiology Durham, NC United States

Best Specialized Hospitals in the World, Cancer:

1 MD Anderson Cancer Center MD Anderson Cancer Center Houston, TX United States
2 Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center New York, NY United States
3 Dana-Farber Cancer Institute Dana-Farber Cancer Institute Boston, MA United States
4 Mayo Clinic - Rochester Department of Oncology Rochester, MN United States
5 Institut Gustave Roussy Institut Gustave Roussy Villejuif France
6 Charité - Universitätsmedizin Berlin Charité Comprehensive Cancer Center Berlin Germany
7 Asan Medical Center Asan Cancer Institute Seoul South Korea
8 The Johns Hopkins Hospital The Sidney Kimmel Comprehensive Cancer Center Baltimore, MD United States
9 Samsung Medical Center Samsung Comprehensive Cancer Center Seoul South Korea
10 The Princess Margaret Cancer Centre The Princess Margaret Cancer Centre Toronto Canada
11 IEO - Istituto Europeo di Oncologia IEO - Istituto Europeo di Oncologia Milan Italy
12 Seoul National University Hospital SNU Cancer Hospital Seoul South Korea
13 The Royal Marsden Hospital - London The Royal Marsden Hospital - London London United Kingdom
14 Hospital Universitario La Paz Department of Oncology Madrid Spain
15 Fondazione IRCCS Istituto Nazionale dei Tumori Milan Italy
16 National Cancer Center Hospital National Cancer Center Hospital Tokyo Japan
17 Cleveland Clinic Cleveland Clinic Cancer Center Cleveland, OH United States
18 The Catholic University Of Korea - Seoul St. Mary’s Hospital Department of Oncology Seoul South Korea
19 Universitätsklinikum Köln Innere Medizin I Cologne Germany
20 Hospital Universitari Vall d'Hebron Department of Oncology Barcelona Spain

That's nice, but how much does it cost to get treated at the hospitals in the states versus abroad? It's like you've never gotten a hospital bill...

 

[bkp_duke]

That's nice, but how much does it cost to get treated at the hospitals in the states versus abroad? It's like you've never gotten a hospital bill...

Only if you live long enough while you are sick to be treated abroad.

 

[TEG]

Did you get tested for the antibodies? Maybe you had it a while ago and had an asymptomatic case?

I asked my doctor's office about this possibility, and got this reply:

Thank you for your message, and I'm so sorry to hear about this.
I am thankful your wife recovered and is home; and thankfully you have somehow managed to avoid this.
Please do your best to quarantine, wear your mask, and wash hands.
I'm not sure if the antibody test will give us any significant data here.
It is not known if an immune response represented by antibody testing is protective against future COVID infections.
False positive and false negative results are possible.
The absence of antibodies does not exclude the possibility of having had a COVID infection.
Given that we do not know how useful antibody tests are at this time and many tests may be unreliable, we would not advocate for antibody testing to be done.
It wouldn't really change the recommendation for you.
Separately, the antibody test is a blood test.
You would have to go to the lab to complete this.

Based on the above, I am not going to pursue it.

 

[jerry33]

We've been down that route. They really are NOT providing good care. I have a cousin that is a physician in Canada. He has repeatedly confirmed that as a patient, you simply CANNOT walk in to a clinic and be seen for most common conditions. Wait lists are the norm, care is RATIONED out.

That was not the case for the 25+ years I lived in Canada. Perhaps it has changed. As far as I can recall, the wait lists were for uncommon aliments.

 

[bkp_duke]

That was not the case for the 25+ years I lived in Canada. Perhaps it has changed. As far as I can recall, the wait lists were for uncommon aliments.

Comparison of the healthcare systems in Canada and the United States - Wikipedia
"As reported by the Health Council of Canada, a 2010 Commonwealth survey found that 39% of Canadians waited 2 hours or more in the emergency room, versus 31% in the U.S.; 43% waited 4 weeks or more to see a specialist, versus 10% in the U.S."

"In the U.S., patients on Medicaid, the low-income government programs, can wait up to a maximum of 12 weeks to see specialists (12 weeks less than the average wait time in Canada)."

Citations are there in Wiki.

 

[MXLRplus]

That's nice, but how much does it cost to get treated at the hospitals in the states versus abroad? It's like you've never gotten a hospital bill...

It cost me about $2000 / month per employee average.
So if the Government took it over, they would tax me $24,000 per employee plus "10% for the Big Guy".
And I'd most likely get inferior care since 'pick your doctor' normally stops with social medicine systems.

Money does not fly out a monkey's arse. Money is labor. You surrender some of your life in exchange for money. So if you make $100k a year, and somebody takes $100k from you, they took some of your life.

 

[JRP3]

And I'd most likely get inferior care since 'pick your doctor' normally stops with social medicine systems.

Please link all the countries where this applies.