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Coronavirus

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Wenche, Jan 27, 2020.

  1. TEG

    TEG Teslafanatic

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    #23061 TEG, Jan 26, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021

    (More costly in terms of dollars rather than lives saved I guess...)


    We do want to keep the best idea as the goal. In the long run it might be good to try to expand things to target the source of these viruses instead of just "treating the symptoms" by vaccinating humans only. Is there an ethical issue with us vaccinating wild animals? Some shareholders of drug companies might actually prefer if the viruses just keep coming and coming once MRNA vaccines turn into something long term profitable. So need to make sure we look at this as a life optimization, not a profit center business model decision...

    Hmm, I guess this thread is in the Investor area, so maybe the wrong place to discuss this with a neutral audience.

    Out of curiosity, I Googled Pfizer's mission statement...

    PM.png

    Looks like COVID hasn't really helped their stock price...
    pfe1.png

    I guess they are so big and diverse (within their industry) that this doesn't affect them so directly.

    Moderna, on the other hand, is more directly tied to this and has taken off:
    mrna1.png
     
  2. RobStark

    RobStark Well-Known Member

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    upload_2021-1-26_15-44-23.png
     
    • Informative x 4
  3. TEG

    TEG Teslafanatic

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    #23063 TEG, Jan 26, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
    The secrets to Israel’s coronavirus vaccination success
    Israel's Covid vaccine rollout is the fastest in the world — here are some lessons for the rest of us

    The secret sauce behind Israel’s successful COVID-19 vaccination program

    Why have the COVID-19 vaccinations in Israel made the headlines?

    One Country Has Jumped Ahead on Vaccinations

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/israel-vaccinates-the-most-people/2021/01/04/23b20882-4e73-11eb-a1f5-fdaf28cfca90_story.html

    Covid-19: Reports from Israel suggest one dose of Pfizer vaccine could be less effective than expected
     
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  4. wdolson

    wdolson Well-Known Member

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    A) I was not addressing outcomes from COVID specifically.
    B) I was pointing out one of the downsides of modern medicine. Simply pointing out that there is a problem is not eugenics. Eugenics is proposing solutions. I can't think of any solutions we can do about it that aren't horrific. Same issue with overpopulation.
    C) I have probably seen every episode of Star Trek ever produced and all but the last of the Tellytubby Star Trek movies (the recent reboot). I've seen every episode of the original series probably 20+ times and read reams of science fiction. I think about unintended consequences all the time, both in my own life as well as what we are doing as a society. The intractable problems with no real solution short of something horrific are the Kobiyashi Maru scenarios we as a society are ignoring.

    I did two antibody blood tests. The first was in a medical office building, but the second was in a small office separate from other medical offices. I had to make an appointment and I was the only person other than the phlebotomist in the building. I was in and out in less than 5 minutes. The first blood draw took about 10 minutes.

    The second one was by LabCorp and cost $5. They didn't require a doctor's order.
    Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19) Antibody Test for Providers | LabCorp

    I think I probably had it last February. I lost my sense of smell and taste for a few days with clear sinuses and had about 2 weeks of what I thought was an odd asthma attack (it felt a bit different). My partner got sick with similar symptoms for a few days after I got over it (though she doesn't recall losing her sense of smell, but hers isn't as sharp as mine to begin with). By the time any antibody tests were available it had been 4 months and the active antibodies had probably faded too much. If I did have it, but I have not been able to find any other disease or condition that can result in a short term loss of smell with clear sinuses. There are some neurological conditions and of course things like head colds can cause loss of smell (I've had it happen), but I've never lost my sense of smell when I wasn't congested.
     
  5. TEG

    TEG Teslafanatic

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    Only $5... what a deal ! I wonder if it would be possible to combine a visit for an antigen test and a vaccine shot at the same time? Would that seem odd to them, like "why does it even matter now that you are getting vaccine..."
    ( I am not eligible for vaccine yet, but just thinking about that "what if" scenario. )
     
  6. wdolson

    wdolson Well-Known Member

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    The fee may have changed, but it was $5 when I did it.
     
  7. TheTalkingMule

    TheTalkingMule Distributed Energy Enthusiast

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    Girlfriend got first shot today, teacher. Sister, another teacher, is scheduled for tomorrow. Mother 75+ is scheduled for I think Saturday.

    Rollout in PA has been an absolute mess. Supply just sitting around while idiots deal with the red tape. I have a feeling the wealthy are finding their way thru it real quick.

    Anywho.....apparently we're accelerating just this week. Girlfriend's shooter today was telling her fellow vaccinator that she'd been trying to volunteer to vaccinate for WEEKS and just got a call yesterday to work today. Splendid.

    It's almost like fee-for-service healthcare is horribly inefficient.
     
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  8. TEG

    TEG Teslafanatic

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  9. TheTalkingMule

    TheTalkingMule Distributed Energy Enthusiast

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    Plenty of rich communities in Florida reporting 20-40% vaccination rates already.
     
  10. AlanSubie4Life

    AlanSubie4Life Efficiency Obsessed Member

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  11. TEG

    TEG Teslafanatic

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    I think my wife may have been a beneficiary of that success as well !

    ( Nurse referred to it as "the good stuff..." )
     
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  12. winfield100

    winfield100 Supporting Member

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    #23072 winfield100, Jan 27, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
    OT (somewhat)
    Since folks are or seem to have been in dark moods discussing the end of the human race
    "James Tiptree, Jr" aka Racoona Sheldon, deceased Science fiction author
    "Last Flight of Dr Ain" (every human gets to a 100% fatal, 100% communicable deliberately bioengineered virus)

    lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/last-flight-doctor-ain/

    or

    "The Screwfly solution"
    where a brain virus causes males to commit "femicide" (kill all the females)
    (story and movie)(aliens want a nice planet with mostly built infrastructure)
    The Screwfly Solution (Masters of Horror) - Wikipedia
    (a riff on North America, smallpox pandemics)
     
    • Funny x 1
  13. madodel

    madodel X at the end of a rainbow

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  14. bkp_duke

    bkp_duke Active Member

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    Source please, because everyone I know in FL is still waiting on vaccine.



    I am happy that your friends and family are finally getting vaccinated.

    But don't blame the current healthcare system for the *sugar* rollout. EVERYONE I talk to that I know (physicians, classmates from medschool, nurses I used to work with). ALL of them are waiting on vaccine, and that is 100% government on the state and federal levels.

    If anything, this would show you HOW BAD government-run healthcare would be. If they cannot manage a vaccine roll-out, do you really want them handling something more complex?

    And no, the rich are not getting the vaccine sooner (honestly, most of them are just hunkering down in their bunkers and are doing just fine with that).
     
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  15. bkp_duke

    bkp_duke Active Member

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    I wish these companies would focus on ramp-up of the Moderna vaccine. In theory, it should be a lot easier to produce than the Pfizer or AstraZeneca vaccines. Pfizer's strict storage requirements would mean that the manufacturing process is probably similarly rigid. AstraZeneca is a traditional-based vaccine, and those are always more difficult for production.

    I wonder if Moderna is not wanting to share their "secret sauce" for their carrier fluid. That's more valuable IP than the actual mRNA.
     
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  16. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    They would be if private for profit businesses were running it. That's how the "free market" works.
     
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  17. shinytop

    shinytop Member

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    Here in NW Florida many have been vaccinated. The program was on line reservation if you are in the healthcare field and 2nd priority is 65 and older. The sites are still running. Have not heard about any shutting down. Although I don't doubt Pfizer is in state all the vaccinated I know got Moderna including me.

    The only problem I have heard of is snow birds. Those that live in the North in the summer and Florida in the winter. If a person's drivers license is out of state they have to show proof of a lease or other proof of residency such as power or water bill in their name. If they cannot prove residency they are turned away. Some snuck thru early on and will receive their second dose. So we are vaccinating more than just our own population.
     
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  18. bkp_duke

    bkp_duke Active Member

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    I always find it HIGHLY IRONIC, especially on this forum, that when it comes to healthcare people want socialism. Calling a spade a spade there.

    But when it comes to Energy/Autos/etc. everyone here has unshakable faith that Elon Musk and Tesla can bring BETTER EFFICIENCY to those markets, drive down pricing, produce a better product . . . basically entrepreneurism as it should be. Out-competing traditional players, and in the process making a lot of people here a lot of money, and improving their lives.

    Someone, please, show me a market that the US Gov entered that then became more efficient for it.

    There is nothing wrong with for-profit. It is the search for profit that makes companies compete against each other and become more efficient at providing services. If it wasn't for profit, we would all think rotary phones were still amazing, and the concept of a cell phone would be laughable, forget smart phones.

    The current US healthcare system is broken BECAUSE the US Gov has allowed regional players to carve out monopolies, and not enforced competition. If the US Gov takes over all healthcare, then things will only get worse because you WILL see the pace of innovation drop, as companies take note that prices are fixed arbitrarily, not by the market, and there is no reason to push forward with innovation. Do you think companies like Moderna would have taken ideas like mRNA technology and perfected it for vaccine use? Nope.

    And before someone comes in and says "but country X has socialized medicine and it is great" - go dig into patient reports from those countries. Care is rationed out, and not available on demand. That's just a fact. Furthermore, those countries only are able to provide "quality care" because of the innovations spear-headed in this country.



    Back to COVID-19 vaccines - there would NOT be 95% effective vaccines available 9-10 months after the beginning of a pandemic without private enterprise. Moderna and even Pfizer would not exist, and would not have had motivation to do the research to bring these things to market.
     
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  19. bkp_duke

    bkp_duke Active Member

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    I appreciate this opinion, and see the merits of some of the argument, but you are completely glossing over the following:

    1) In the HISTORY of mankind, we have NEVER been able to contain an airborne, pandemic-level pathogen. Ever. The "playbook" referred to has nothing new that would have prevented that.

    2) The above would have mitigated this ONLY if we wanted to COMPLETELY close off and enforce the closure of our borders. Is that something you were willing to do? Even with this, given the size of our borders (we are not a New Zealand - where this has worked), I doubt we could have managed it.


    The R-value for this pathogen (which is HIGHER now than it was at the beginning because of the new mutations) means that it is virtually impossible to contain. You would ONLY be able to slow the spread, and there I 100% agree we could and should have done a better job.

    Bear in mind that 1 in 6 infections in the US are of Healthcare providers and their families. These are the people that KNOW how to use PPE properly, and this data is a STRONG indication that PPE measures are insufficient alone to stop the spread of this virus.
     
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  20. MXLRplus

    MXLRplus Active Member

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    #23080 MXLRplus, Jan 27, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
    Oh brother.
    BTW - People are flying to Florida to get the vaccine, yet California is dead last in distribution. (unless you are rich, an actor, or an elected official)
     
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