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Coronavirus
- Thread starter Wenche
- Start date
Nightly news showed video out of Spain. Patients lying on the ground in the hospital hallways because there aren't enough beds. Imagine if they didn't try to let flatten the curve and let the virus infect everyone quickly like some people here recommend. It would be like a heard in "walking dead" unable to even get into the hospital. You would have to lock thousands of people outside to die.
Interesting chart from Financial Times focusing on regions v. nations (death rates)
New York is heading in the direction of Lombardy (possibly worse). California and Washington both have slower growth in fatalities.
New York is heading in the direction of Lombardy (possibly worse). California and Washington both have slower growth in fatalities.
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AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
We know exactly what is going on, and we know exactly how to fix it. If we do the right things, this outbreak can be over in about 6-8 weeks. And life for many will be able to return to near normal a little before that. There is the significant question about whether we'll do the right things (we're not right now and that is having exponentially greater costs with time). This is not rocket science. It requires people to listen to the experts, lots of testing capacity, and the cooperation of every American.
I think we'll see a significant improvement in California growth rate within 1-2 weeks. Your numbers are definitely being skewed by New York, which is legitimately terrifying. The deaths will be astounding in a week or two - far exceeding that of Italy I would think. We'll be #1!
I do hope that Gavin Newsom considers enforcing quarantines on people from New York & other problem areas. We do need to cut off additional seeding and there's really no reason to travel to California anyway.
I don't know when Tesla might come back online. Hopefully Musk will get out there on Twitter and let all his followers know how serious this is and how important it is to stay inside.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Chloroquine phosphate is the same thing, everyone just refers to it as chloroquine.
Chloroquine: MedlinePlus Drug Information
I'm likely to benefit greatly. I still question how we're not weighing the negative effects with our response. We'll learn in time.
The posters on here I consider authorities are @jbcarioca @bkp_duke and (Rest in Posting Piece) @KarenRei. I'm pretty sure the latter two disagree with my position. Not entirely sure. I still listen when they speak.
Also, the fact that he bought it as an aquarium cleaner with an unknown dosage really shouldn’t make this indicative as a dangerous drug when a pharma version of it is administered by a doctor.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
The two phosphates are the counter-ions (the flower-looking things in the top left of the screen). The second link just didn't include the counter-ions (but they have to be there in the formulation).
EDIT - this is a link with the known manufacturers and formulations they use(d).
Chloroquine - DrugBank
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
I'm 100% with you on this. No telling what else was in there, and what dose he took.
But the point remains:
Chloroquine is NOT a very nice drug. We use it for some things because we don't have a better alternative.
I simply don't trust numbers from China or Iran, but I do think centre studies in China (or Iran for that matter) are valid. (So a study from a single hospital in China I would trust). In particular I would expect that many early fatalities that were not counted, ie a random dead person is simply sent to the morgue/crematorium, and not analyzed. There is no benefit in subjecting the living to further hazard examining a random dead body, whilst test test are very rare.
Iran has reportedly released 85,000 prisoners, that tells a story.
Letting the virus spread would a complete breach of the social contract: a "State" that let his citizens die like that would be a major shock in all democratic countries. That would be chaos, as even minor injuries wouldn't be cured, and the body count would duplicate. Imagine having a civil war with no hospitals.
US is the country with most guns per capita, I'll let you imagine how it goes.
In this sense, lockdown is the most sensible thing to do.
I'm not talking about it being floating around for months, just a few extra weeks. The testing in the US was initially very poor and it could have been growing in mostly low risk populations for those weeks unnoticed. The company I work for in the Bay Area said they had a big flu outbreak in the office just before COVID-19 became big in the news. Most of the people who work there are in their 30s and 40s and generally healthy. Only a few are above 50.
I don't think anyone specifically got tested to see if they were positive for the flu, they just assumed because it was going around.
I'm not sure that COVID-19 was circulating in the US before January 26. I'm making the point that it might have been going around a few weeks before that.
From everything I've read, medical science is beginning to get a handle on how this virus gets around, but what we have right now are a bunch of theories. Nothing as definitive as we have for better known viruses.
If we let up all restrictions on gathering and let life return to normal right now, that would almost guarantee most of the most vulnerable people would get this at once. In most places about 20% appear to need hospitalization. In the US that would mean 68 million people needing hospital care at once when we have 900,000 hospital beds and about 100,000 ICU beds (part of the 900,000). With emergency measures we may be able to triple or quadruple the hospital beds and maybe increase ICU resources by about 50%. That leaves over 60 million people in a condition they will die without treatment who won't be able to get it. Some will recover, but the death toll would be huge.
In the history of bad epidemics death rates below 5% can destabilize governments. This would be 10-20% of the population dying in a span of a few weeks. All those who lost loved ones who could have survived with care, but couldn't get it would be justifiably furious with the government people who let it happen. And some would do it violently.
The survivors would have almost universal herd immunity, but the cost psychologically and politically would be staggering. All so the economy doesn't go into recession? With that kind of carnage the economy might collapse anyway.
A little over a week ago there were stories about satellite images of mass graves being dug in Iran
Satellite images show Iran's mass graves for coronavirus victims | Space
[Expert consensus on chloroquine phosphate for the treatment of novel coronavirus pneumonia]. - PubMed - NCBI
same thing, just a shorter name
still don't recommend ingesting aquarium cleaner, thats like comparing methylated spirits to vodka.
deonb
Active Member
Stay-at-home order just issued for WA state (2 weeks):
Live: Inslee orders Washingtonians to stay at home to slow spread of coronavirus
Live: Inslee orders Washingtonians to stay at home to slow spread of coronavirus
deonb
Active Member
Funny, I used to take Choroquine all the time when I was young before venturing into Malaria areas in Africa. So did everybody I knew.
Never knew it was dangerous until this week.
Drugs they make for animals and pets are the same they make for humans. really. Just packages differently. Quality control maybe not as good, but usually they come from the same factory and go in different directions.
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