-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Coronavirus
- Thread starter Wenche
- Start date
Ridicule is not a substitute for facts and logic... or several posters here would have Nobel Prizes.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Yeah, me too. My patients just never got insulin again after big pharma stopped those free meals.
I do agree that not having to sit through the sales pitches . . . that's a blessing. Being told by some sales guy with at best a BS and maybe an MBA about the "benefits" of drug X was usually pretty insulting. A few times I just told them to give me the damn product insert and shut up.
Yeah, me too. My patients just never got insulin again after big pharma stopped those free meals.
I do agree that not having to sit through the sales pitches . . . that's a blessing. Being told by some sales guy with at best a BS and maybe an MBA about the "benefits" of drug X was usually pretty insulting. A few times I just told them to give me the damn product insert and shut up.
I love when someone unintentionally makes my case for me.
Most of the "education" that conventional doctors get after medical school comes from drug reps and seminars (in posh locations) paid for by... guess who... not citrus growers.
Probably some doctors try to make time in their packed schedules to read medical journals (packed with drug ads), but why bother when a drug rep will bring you samples of the latest miracle patent-medicine, and you trust the FDA to weed out the dangerous ones (despite all evidence to the contrary), and you know holistic stuff like vitamins is nonsense because... guess why... no drug rep ever told you about it!
Payoffs are not necessary, although they certainly help, such as free "continuing education" in tropical resorts. Tell us about those, @bkp_duke, while you're making my case.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
That's true of the phone operating system itself, yet people still use smartphones. Hopefully the app will be open source.
What data?
I think you should read about how the Apple/Google API works.
Depending on the logs that Phone companies & Phone OS keep you can be tracked to cell phone towers at a minimum right now.
The Phone Application in Australia is supposed to have the source released shortly if not already. There will also be specific legislation that will be passed soon to ensure its only used for the intended health tracking. I recall it requires user approval (once contacted) to upload your Bluetooth contracts to the State (not Federal) health tracing folks.
Just discovered the King County (in WA) dashboard, you can select zip or city name to see local cases.
This includes the city of Kirkland which had the initial nursing home cases.
This is in addition to the WA State dashboard
The Phone Application in Australia is supposed to have the source released shortly if not already. There will also be specific legislation that will be passed soon to ensure its only used for the intended health tracking. I recall it requires user approval (once contacted) to upload your Bluetooth contracts to the State (not Federal) health tracing folks.
Just discovered the King County (in WA) dashboard, you can select zip or city name to see local cases.
This includes the city of Kirkland which had the initial nursing home cases.
This is in addition to the WA State dashboard
EVNow
Well-Known Member
deonb
Active Member
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
I see yet again you are too stupid to understand sarcasm.
Google the "Sunshine Law" regarding gifts to physicians. Every single gift a physician gets from a pharma or medical device company is put on a publicly searchable registry. I never accepted anything more than a free meal (contrary to popular opinion the LAW does NOT allow drug reps to give free samples - that went away 20 years ago). Free meals only came once every 6 months. Furthermore, those kinds of things don't fulfill CE requirements. So we all still have to READ journal articles, attend CE lectures etc.
You truly have zero clue what you are talking about, but THANK YOU. Every post you make shows just how un-informed and ludicrous your viewpoint is.
Oh - and my field - pediatric endocrinology - there are VERY VERY few patented medications. Almost everything we use has been out so long that the patents have long expired. 99% of the time in my specialty we were simply replacing the hormones that a patient's body was no longer making. And I had PLENTY of manufacturers to pick from none of them had exclusivity rights, with the exception of the Epi-Pen. And I guarantee you that we as physicians HATED that company more than you did.
Please, continue your dumbassery. During lockdown, I've got nothing better to do and it's highly entertaining.
Good point. Thank you for mentioning the exception that proves the rule.
The trade embargo against Cuba has forced their medical system to rely more on preventive health care, because fancy new drugs and diagnostic equipment are hard for them to get. Yet their infant mortality rate and life expectancy are comparable to the UK.
Is the Cuban healthcare system really as great as people claim?
What does that tell you?
MXLRplus
Active Member
Read that AP article linked in my post. It's short. UK and France? want access to the data.
The iOS/Android API might not be what is used.
Singapore used tracking app when they had <1000 cases, but had to lock down when they got overwhelmed anyways.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
It tells me you haven't considered other countries
I can't speak for others - but I know the medical schools in India and they have nothing to do with big pharma. If you want to see the effect of big pharma look at the congress. May be AMA. You are barking up the wrong tree with med schools.
ps : To talk about big pharma but not consider the undue influence makers of all these fad health products have is ridiculous.
Last edited:
deonb
Active Member
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
The Apple/Google API was just released to developers. They're not adding it to the OS until mid-May.
Apple and Google release sample code, UI and detailed policies for COVID-19 exposure-notification apps – TechCrunch
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I saw Oregon (where I grew up) received very high scores for transparency and reporting from COVID Tracking.
Was looking at their website and they have some projections from IDM which are insightful and interesting. Things really are on the edge of a knife right now, but they are optimstic:
"While “Stay Home, Save Lives” has been effective in reducing transmission, we recognize that there is an enormous economic and social cost to these aggressive community mitigation strategies, especially for low-income families, and a need for the state to start reopening. To loosen the community mitigation strategies without a large increase in infections, we emphasize the need to make these changes incrementally and to implement other interventions to keep transmission levels low. Examples of such interventions include increased testing capacity, detailed contact tracing (e.g., Kretzschmar et al, 2020), and likely the quarantining of infected individuals away from households, where significant transmission occurs. Additional vigilance to reduce the risk of reintroduction if travel restrictions were relaxed would also require substantial testing capacities."
https://govsite-assets.s3.amazonaws...w2_Oregon-COVID-19-Projections-2020-04-29.pdf
Looks like their models predict about 4x more cases than have been identified, in Oregon, so far (Oregon has a low intensity epidemic). "We predict that there have been approximately 9,200 cumulative infections in Oregon, of which 2,300 had been diagnosed by April 23rd."
Also a few other tidbits in the appendix (some of which are already known):
"To match observed epidemic trends, five infected individuals are assumed by 2020-02-05. This indicates either multiple importation events, or a single importation occurring earlier."
"We assumed an overall symptomatic rate of 68%, similar to Ferguson et al (2020), and assumed the symptomatic rate was higher for older cases."
"The probability of death for each infection is approximately 0.8%, dependent on age (Ferguson et al., 2020)." (I assume this means 0.8% with a uniform attack rate, since their projected number of cases would be higher even assuming only ~90 deaths on April 23rd, rather than 115. Right now, elderly are disproportionately attacked; 50% of cases are above age 50, while about 35% of the population.)
"Before being diagnosed, all infected individuals with symptoms are assumed to be equally infectious; those who remain asymptomatic are assumed to be 20% less infectious."
Was looking at their website and they have some projections from IDM which are insightful and interesting. Things really are on the edge of a knife right now, but they are optimstic:
"While “Stay Home, Save Lives” has been effective in reducing transmission, we recognize that there is an enormous economic and social cost to these aggressive community mitigation strategies, especially for low-income families, and a need for the state to start reopening. To loosen the community mitigation strategies without a large increase in infections, we emphasize the need to make these changes incrementally and to implement other interventions to keep transmission levels low. Examples of such interventions include increased testing capacity, detailed contact tracing (e.g., Kretzschmar et al, 2020), and likely the quarantining of infected individuals away from households, where significant transmission occurs. Additional vigilance to reduce the risk of reintroduction if travel restrictions were relaxed would also require substantial testing capacities."
https://govsite-assets.s3.amazonaws...w2_Oregon-COVID-19-Projections-2020-04-29.pdf
Looks like their models predict about 4x more cases than have been identified, in Oregon, so far (Oregon has a low intensity epidemic). "We predict that there have been approximately 9,200 cumulative infections in Oregon, of which 2,300 had been diagnosed by April 23rd."
Also a few other tidbits in the appendix (some of which are already known):
"To match observed epidemic trends, five infected individuals are assumed by 2020-02-05. This indicates either multiple importation events, or a single importation occurring earlier."
"We assumed an overall symptomatic rate of 68%, similar to Ferguson et al (2020), and assumed the symptomatic rate was higher for older cases."
"The probability of death for each infection is approximately 0.8%, dependent on age (Ferguson et al., 2020)." (I assume this means 0.8% with a uniform attack rate, since their projected number of cases would be higher even assuming only ~90 deaths on April 23rd, rather than 115. Right now, elderly are disproportionately attacked; 50% of cases are above age 50, while about 35% of the population.)
"Before being diagnosed, all infected individuals with symptoms are assumed to be equally infectious; those who remain asymptomatic are assumed to be 20% less infectious."
Last edited:
I may be stupid, but I've learned to distrust anything you say. I googled free drug samples for healthcare professionals and discovered this journal paper from 2014:
The High Costs of “Free” Drug Samples
...right after these websites:
Request Samples | Pfizer for Professionals
GSK Samples and Savings Offers | GSKPro for Healthcare Professionals
Request Samples, Vouchers, and/or Coupons
Are you sure you want to keep this up? I would think embarrassment would set in sometime. And @dfwatt might tell you to "tone down the intensity of your rhetoric." (But I won't hold my breath for that one.)
Well, as I said, I've lost interest in rebutting your falsehoods again and again, regardless of how much entertainment it provides to you. Have a nice day.
Last edited:
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
For the aspiring biochemists out there that want to know the mechanism of action of Remdesivir:
Remdesivir explained – what makes this drug work against viruses?
Remdesivir explained – what makes this drug work against viruses?
It tells me you haven't considered other countries
I can't speak for others - but I know the medical schools in India and they have nothing to do with big pharma. If you want to see the effect of big pharma look at the congress. May be AMA. You are barking up the wrong tree with med schools.
Fair enough. I amend my statement to... conventional doctor training in most countries.
I don't know how much influence they have. Do you have a link?
But I totally agree such products are not the answer. I get my vitamins from minimally processed whole plant foods, except for B12 and D in the winter. And I haven't had a cold or flu in decades. (I know, anecdotal evidence, but it's hard to ignore when you're the anecdote.) I haven't suffered a severe infection that requires IV-C.
A logical fallacy of many conventional doctors is to assume that rejection of drug-based medicine means acceptance of every non-drug fad. I reject both.
https://openpaymentsdata.cms.gov/
Random examples:
https://openpaymentsdata.cms.gov/physician/33407
https://openpaymentsdata.cms.gov/physician/1240536 (2014 was a good year)
Last edited:
Similar threads
