Coronavirus

[SageBrush]

To get back to work, we probably will have to test anyone with even the remote suspected chance of symptoms. Then aggressive backtracing before you start seeing too many cases.

You can go that route ... if you want the economy at a standstill for a year.

Or people can adopt

MASKS

 

[Paracelsus]

 

[NikolaACDC]

Aren’t DIY cloth masks more theater than function? Like barely better than nothing. Surgical masks for everyone and n95 masks for healthcare settings would be a much different effect than diy masks I think.

I'm guessing he's also just proposing what would immediately be possible, and not what would be ideal.

“You start a war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time.”
Donald Rumsfeld (truthified quote)

 

[jbcarioca]

I don't know for certain, but this could explain why we are seeing such bad outcomes in some patients and not others. Further research required:
COVID-19 patients often infected with other respiratory viruses, preliminary study reports
Higher co-infection rates in COVID19

When I was practicing in pediatrics, often the sickest kids in the ICU were those with more than one respiratory virus at a time.

I would love to see more testing, especially of the hospitalized patients, for additional viruses.

FWIW, here in Rio de Janeiro we were advised that annual flu shots were 'highly recommended' for those high high risk categories because thus far people who had COVID-19 and the flu were 'twice as likely' to require hospitalization and were also 'much more likely' to die. Thus far I have seen no direct evidence of that specific combination, although there is data for kidney dialysis, diabetes, and lung cancer.

That does seem inherently likely to be true. After all who can argue that increased pulmonary stress would not correlate very highly to morbidity and mortality.

 

[NikolaACDC]

View attachment 529487

Republicans: But we don't wanna...

Wisconsin Republicans reject governor’s move to postpone Tuesday election

Coronavirus: Wisconsin Legislature stalls move to postpone election

 

[jerry33]

The interesting one to me is flour. We’ve grabbed what we can, but decent flour is hard to come by. And I like to bake..

I like to bake too, but I mill grain rather than purchase flour, it's cheaper and better, plus the grain stores for a long time if properly packaged, and there is just about zero waste.

 

[sparcs]

You can go that route ... if you want the economy at a standstill for a year.

Or people can adopt

MASKS

Masks for at least the next year was assumed. He was talking specifically about testing. Even beyond masks, I would think you want all the things I mentioned for testing.

I edited my post to clarify. Even if we get a vaccine, the general public should have some masks at home for future outbreaks of this virus or another virus.

 

[SageBrush]

Have you wondered just how miserable the Western countries are doing compared to the East ?
Singapore has plateaued at ~ 0.1 daily deaths per 10M population. This will end up being in the range of 1000 fold to 5,000 fold more mortality per capita in the Western countries unless the latter get a clue.

Note the difference Y axis when comparing to the Western countries

 

[bkp_duke]

https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article241774351.html

A new immunity test from Stanford University and an increased focus on screening for coronavirus will help the state dramatically ramp up testing over the next few weeks, Gov. Gavin Newsom said Saturday, with an ultimate goal of getting Californians back to work.

[...]

The Stanford blood test is just “hours” away from federal approval and could allow people to begin to return to work, Newsom said. The tests are “serological,” and could determine whether someone has developed antibodies to the coronavirus. In theory, those who develop immunity may be able to safely interact with others without catching or spreading it. [bold added]

[...]

It’s unclear the timeline for U.S. Food and Drug Administration approval, even as regulators on March 16 amended their policies for so-called emergency-use authorization.

The test will begin to be used on Californians in the coming week, said Dr. Charity Dean, assistant director at the California Department of Public Health.

[...]​

The FDA has already approved a similar serologic test from Cellex.

 

[NikolaACDC]

Hmm, Germany has 22% more (known) total cases than the US per capita, but only 68% the number of deaths per capita.

Due to higher testing? Or lower death rate?

This Report
https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ...chte/2020-04-05-en.pdf?__blob=publicationFile

(Linked from here if the direct link doesn't work: RKI - Coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 - Aktueller Situationsbericht des Robert Koch-Instituts zu COVID-19 )

shows the age distribution of the infected in Germany (page 4).

(Same info here:
Experience )

How does that compare to the US?

Maybe the infected are younger and thus result in lower numbers of hospitalization and casualties.

And possibly higher rates of testing will also catch more infected cases with little to no symptoms.

 

[winfield100]

Aren’t DIY cloth masks more theater than function? Like barely better than nothing. Surgical masks for everyone and n95 masks for healthcare settings would be a much different effect than diy masks I think.

@davepsilon
Do you remember no seat belts in cars? I do.
We had a low speed panic stop and the right seat passenger cracked the windshield with their head
i remember stories growing up of bits and pieces of fellow teenagers ejected from cars during high speed wrecks being picked out of trees

Do you remember when smokers in the US were everywhere?
You could smoke on airplanes, bus’s, restaurants including cigars.
Social pressures including laws, “no smoking allowed” made many pariahs and objects of pity to be shunned by polite society.

Be part of the paradigm shift,
Just wear a face mask, even homemade
I’m cutting up old t shirts

 

[bkp_duke]

I see from this Bloomberg report that India has banned all exports of the malaria drug Trump was touting. Wonder if this is a partial response to the WH not wanting to “share” with other nations (ban on 3M masks exports in recent news).

“India Bans All Exports of Trump’s ‘Game Changer’ Virus Drug”
By Rajesh Kumar Singh, 3/5/20, 12:42am PDT

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Glad the evidence for it is circumspect at best.

Perhaps this will cause Congress and the WH to move "critical" manufacturing back to the US.

 

[NikolaACDC]

Do you have a source for that? Washington Post says they did fund development of machinery to make masks.
I thought the anthrax scare was under Bush in 2001.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/inve...2dda5c-74fa-11ea-a9bd-9f8b593300d0_story.html

Here's some additional data for that
Trump Falsely Claims He Inherited 'Empty' Stockpile

Also, we are now in year 4 of the Trump presidency.
The first two of which he and the Republicans held absolute power.
But didn't see the need to fill those 'empty stockpiles'?
Probably not considering they removed the CDC expert in China and disbanded the pandemic response team.

 

[HugoBoss]

Have you wondered just how miserable the Western countries are doing compared to the East ?
Singapore has plateaued at ~ 0.1 daily deaths per 10M population. This will end up being in the range of x1000 to x5,000 less than the Western countries unless the latter get a clue.

Note the difference Y axis when comparing to the Western countries

View attachment 529492

The eastern nations are more heavy handed with their population. They started locking down faster.
I feel we in North America should have closed our borders sooner. This virus was obviously spread through Airports.
What I find sad is how hard this is hiting the USA.
Trump downplayed this for way too long. He is still more worried about getting America working again than getting rid of this. Refuses to wear a mask and blabs on like he knows everything... Because he just does.

I think Justin Trudeau is soft as a leader up here in Canada. Rob Ford the premier of Ontario is doing a better job but I find Trump is just an idiot. I watch both Canadian and American press briefings. Trump doesn't answer the questions at all.... He just goes on about nothing really. Hate to say it but America is in for a big mess. He is right though, lots of people will die and it's because of his incompetence.
Mike Pence isnt any better. His whole Team, all they do is praise him how good of a job he is doing.
Blocking 3m from sending critical supplies to Canada? Asshole move. Maybe we should block the medical professionals that cross the border on a daily basis going into Detroit to work. But then again Detroit isn't exactly a rich area. Trump doesn't care and it's obvious.
It's a stab in the back from our friends down south at a time we should be working together.

 

[jerry33]

Glad the evidence for it is circumspect at best.

Perhaps this will cause Congress and the WH to move "critical" manufacturing back to the US.

At $800 per few tablets, just like insulin.

 

[bkp_duke]

At $800 per few tablets, just like insulin.

Competition, competition, competition. Don't allow one company to buy up the rights to a drug, and you don't have that problem. Prosecute collusion. But that's starting to get way off-topic.

 

[SageBrush]

I’m cutting up old t shirts

BRAVO, but the not spring chickens amongst us should be wearing masks that help us avoid getting infection.

If you cannot buy polypropelene paper for DIY mask making, PM me and I will mail you some sheets. My family re-use a couple of N95 masks after they are treated with hot air and sit for a couple days; you can do the same.

 

[jerry33]

Competition, competition, competition. Don't allow one company to buy up the rights to a drug, and you don't have that problem. Prosecute collusion. But that's starting to get way off-topic.

Competition only works if there are many suppliers. Two or three isn't competition.

 

[JusRelax]

Aren’t DIY cloth masks more theater than function? Like barely better than nothing. Surgical masks for everyone and n95 masks for healthcare settings would be a much different effect than diy masks I think.

@davepsilon
Do you remember no seat belts in cars? I do.
We had a low speed panic stop and the right seat passenger cracked the windshield with their head
i remember stories growing up of bits and pieces of fellow teenagers ejected from cars during high speed wrecks being picked out of trees

Do you remember when smokers in the US were everywhere?
You could smoke on airplanes, bus’s, restaurants including cigars.
Social pressures including laws, “no smoking allowed” made many pariahs and objects of pity to be shunned by polite society.

Be part of the paradigm shift,
Just wear a face mask, even homemade
I’m cutting up old t shirts

I believe there is also a heightened level of awareness that wearing a mask endows to the mask-wearer. This heightened level of awareness should facilitate social distancing efforts.

The paradigm shift that @winfield100 mentions is, of course, the more significant factor, though.

 

[SageBrush]

I feel we in North America should have closed our borders sooner. This virus was obviously spread through Airports.

Restricting travel early in a epidemic buys you time, it does not prevent anything. If the bought time is used wisely to prepare then you are a winner. If you are a trump(er), you lose ... just a few weeks later.