Could 1 Pedal Driving lead to 'Unintended Acceleration' incidents?

[MXWing]

Letting off the gas, was already a much smoother way of deceleration and brake pad life extender before the invention of any EV components.

I think Creep mode is so -essential- to driving Tesla's safely that I would support 'always on' for it.

1 - It reminds you that you actually have a brake pedal. You keep it depressed when stopped at a night and not using TACC.
2 - Fining control when parking / Avoids running into garages. Just "creep in"
3 - Nice way to acceleration prep when stopped behind another car.

 

[vandacca]

Letting off the gas, was already a much smoother way of deceleration and brake pad life extender before the invention of any EV components.

I think Creep mode is so -essential- to driving Tesla's safely that I would support 'always on' for it.

1 - It reminds you that you actually have a brake pedal. You keep it depressed when stopped at a night and not using TACC.
2 - Fining control when parking / Avoids running into garages. Just "creep in"
3 - Nice way to acceleration prep when stopped behind another car.

Mandating "Creep Mode" would be the equivalent of outlawing manual gearboxes. Some people like driving a manual car. And I prefer to have creep off.

 

[Vitold]

There have been several cases on unintended acceleration reported. In each case it occurred in a setting where the driver could reasonably be expected to step on the brake but the logs show the Go pedal was floored instead. Tesla concludes that it's operator error and they aren't liable or negligent.

I agree with all of that. Under the current circumstances the drivers are at fault.

But I'm wondering if there isn't a more subtle UI issue here for Tesla to consider?

It's not hard to find posts of people lauding 1-pedal driving and stating (happily) 'I hardly use the brake pedal anymore'.

My concern is if this has the side effect of detuning the muscle memory needed to properly actuate the brakes in a reflexive situation? Maybe if drivers punch the go pedal 20 times a day and never touch the brakes, it's easier to do the wrong thing when startled?

Tesla could test this hypothesis by looking at incidence reports to see if the drivers affected were exclusive Tesla drivers, or also drove cars with conventional pedals? Were they relatively new Tesla drivers, or had they been driving the car for a period of weeks, months or years?

I'm not sure if there are any design changes to be made in the UI. Perhaps people more familiar with the details could suggest something? (disclosure: I'm not a Tesla owner yet. I have an M3 reservation) 1 pedal driving does seem like a convenience, and I believe it's already optional for people who don't like it.

Question for Tesla owners: Has anyone who uses 1-pedal driving regularly experienced any momentary confusion or hesitation when reaching for the brake pedal? (either as an experienced user, or during the learning curve?)

When driving with TACC, with feet on the floorboard, it's easy to forget where pedals are. Hence, from time to time, I touch the brake pedal with my right foot just to be sure I'm ready to press it when needed.

Driving with regen requires one keeping one's foot on the pedal therefore relative position of gas and brake pedals is always known. For that reason I think one pedal driving is actually safer and not a cause of people mistaking accelerator for a brake.

 

[MXWing]

Mandating "Creep Mode" would be the equivalent of outlawing manual gearboxes. Some people like driving a manual car. And I prefer to have creep off.

Right. Options are good and I understand where you are coming from. I am really saying creep helps the majority of people. It should at least default to on (not sure what the default is since I would have made it on the moment I saw the option).

 

[EinSV]

Right. Options are good and I understand where you are coming from. I am really saying creep helps the majority of people. It should at least default to on (not sure what the default is since I would have made it on the moment I saw the option).

One person's opinion, with no data that I have seen to back it up. I think most who have driven for a while seem to prefer not using creep mode, and find it just as safe or safer.

I mean, you actually want to have your car to move forward in an uncontrolled manner without you telling it to do so by hitting the accelerator? Seems so archaic.

 

[Roger_wilco]

They may find a smarter way to turn on and off creep mode in the future, crowded traffic, limited spaces like garages, creep on, open road conditions, creep off, etc..

 

[vandacca]

One person's opinion, with no data that I have seen to back it up. I think most who have driven for a while seem to prefer not using creep mode, and find it just as safe or safer.

I mean, you actually want to have your car to move forward in an uncontrolled manner without you telling it to do so by hitting the accelerator? Seems so archaic.

To be fair (to @MXWing), I wish the X prevented me from moving backwards in an uncontrolled manner without me telling it to do so (eg. stopped on an incline).

 

[Az_Rael]

They may find a smarter way to turn on and off creep mode in the future, crowded traffic, limited spaces like garages, creep on, open road conditions, creep off, etc..

Yeah it's annoying you have to have the car stopped (and maybe in park) to change it. I drove off in a loaner with it off and had to wait until I got to a stopping point to turn it on

 

[EinSV]

To be fair (to @MXWing), I wish the X prevented me from moving backwards in an uncontrolled manner without me telling it to do so (eg. stopped on an incline).

Hill hold is my best friend on my commute to San Francisco -- the city streets on some of the commute routes have very steep hills.

 

[vandacca]

Hill hold is my best friend on my commute to San Francisco -- the city streets on some of the commute routes have very steep hills.

I love hill-hold too, use it all the time! But it would be extra nice if my X prevented me from rolling backwards when in Drive.

 

[EinSV]

I love hill-hold too, use it all the time! But it would be extra nice if my X prevented me from rolling backwards when in Drive.

I agree.

 

[wayner]

The OP should try driving today in Toronto where it is -10C. When it is that cold you have no regen. IMHO that is the biggest issue with regen - it is inconsistent as it is not available in cold weather or when your battery is charged to 100%. You take your foot of the accelerator expecting the car to slow and it doesn't act as you expect.

 

[EVie'sDad]

creep mode imho is a waste of energy, the motors constantly fighting with the brakes, and thus an added (unnecessary) drain on the battery. If you live in a hilly area though, I could understand wanting to enable that feature, as the first unexpected rollback could be pricey for the newly initiated.

I prefer it off however, and I believe it is off by default.

 

[Phil Seastrand]

creep mode imho is a waste of energy, the motors constantly fighting with the brakes, and thus an added (unnecessary) drain on the battery.

Creep mode does NOT waste any energy. The drive motor does not fight the brakes like a ICE automatic does. Instead, if the brakes are applied, the drive system is off. Only when you lift your foot off the brake does the drive system work to creep the car forward.

I've been driving now without creep for a couple of months and love it. I don't plan to ever go back.

 

[EVie'sDad]

Creep mode does NOT waste any energy. The drive motor does not fight the brakes like a ICE automatic does. Instead, if the brakes are applied, the drive system is off. Only when you lift your foot off the brake does the drive system work to creep the car forward.

I've been driving now without creep for a couple of months and love it. I don't plan to ever go back.

I love it too don't get me wrong, never having enabled creep mode in the past 16 months.

I meant only that releasing the brake causes the motors to engage AND move slightly in the direction the driver is going thus consuming slight amounts of battery power, whereas without creep enabled, the motor just idles until I command her to go into launch mode. gives me more energy to use in getting to the speed limit sooner than all those antiquated ice vehicles.

When I want to go forward, I do, but not with the assist of creep mode, but it should always be an option, for those whom prefer it that way.

 

[EVie'sDad]

Hill hold is my best friend on my commute to San Francisco -- the city streets on some of the commute routes have very steep hills.

but I could do without the two pedal pressed alert when I try to take off from hill standstill with creep mode off, so that alone justifies it on an 'as needed' basis, although I still prefer it off.

 

[jerry33]

but I could do without the two pedal pressed alert when I try to take off from hill standstill with creep mode off, so that alone justifies it on an 'as needed' basis, although I still prefer it off.

But the car holds on a hill (for older cars like mine it's just for a few seconds, for newer cars I believe it holds until you press the accelerator pedal). No reason to ever use both the brake and accelerator at the same time.

 

[bhzmark]

Its been noted that the % of Model X's involved in unintended acceleration events compared to the number of X's on the road is relatively high considering how few cars are out there. Maybe that indicates a particular design choice that was made on the X that increases the likelihood of this occurring vs other cars.

Tesla is being sued by a S.Korean celebrity claiming his Model X accelerated on its own into his garage, logs show user mistake
We also noted that while everything points to user mistakes in the cases we looked into, it is still strange that so many of them happened in the Model X in such a short period of time. According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, there are approximately 16,000 crashes occurring each year in the US due to drivers mistaking the accelerator for the brake pedal. We have seen at least 6 reports of unintended acceleration in the Model X despite the vehicle being only in relatively small numbers on the road.

I think the high rate of unintended acceleration on the very small sample size of Tesla model X, is due to the fact that the car is new and the drivers are new to the car and because the car is so expensive it's generally older wealthier drivers that are driving the car. Being a new car and being older driver are two things that correlate with the confusion of pedal misapplication which causes the higher rates of unintended acceleration

 

[EinSV]

I think the high rate of unintended acceleration on the very small sample size of Tesla model X, is due to the fact that the car is new and the drivers are new to the car and because the car is so expensive it's generally older wealthier drivers that are driving the car. Being a new car and being older driver are two things that correlate with the confusion of pedal misapplication which causes the higher rates of unintended acceleration

The NHTSA data are also inherently unreliable for these purposes because they are primarily based on self-reporting by drivers. Given the heightened amount of attention to every Tesla accident that occurs and heightened level of knowledge of NHTSA reporting procedures among Tesla owners, using the number of NHTSA reports to compare the number of reported unintended accelerations with other vehicles is statistically meaningless.

I am pretty sure when my elderly ex-mother-in-law drove into the same 7-11 twice as a result of "unintended acceleration" (aka user error) she did not report it to the NHTSA.

So even leaving aside the small sample size, the relative numbers are not statistically valid, especially given the heightened attention and charged atmosphere around every Tesla crash.

 

[UnitaryExecutive]

It's actually the opposite for me. When I drive an ICE I find myself letting off the pedal to slow down, it doesn't and then I realize it and slam the brakes on.