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Could bugs be causing (some) phantom braking?

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I live in Portland and often drive south on I-5 to visit my folks in southern Oregon - I have never had a phantom braking issue. My wife takes the X on a trip to Boise through eastern oregon and reports half a dozen phantom braking issues. Weird. We then went together this past weekend on same route to Boise and boom - more braking issues.

One thing I noticed is there were a LOT of bugs hitting the car on the trip to Idaho, but very few on my trips to southern Oregon. Could a large bug be the reason for some of the braking issues? Maybe the camera "sees" it real late and real fast and thinks there is something big and close to the car?

Just wondering...
 
I live in Portland and often drive south on I-5 to visit my folks in southern Oregon - I have never had a phantom braking issue. My wife takes the X on a trip to Boise through eastern oregon and reports half a dozen phantom braking issues. Weird. We then went together this past weekend on same route to Boise and boom - more braking issues.
Phantom braking is a result of the driving environment, not a defect of the hardware in the car, cosmic rays, or some other phenomenon. People have remarked that heat mirages on the road can trigger braking. It's literally braking at a phantom in the road. There have been others, and Tesla has been trying to weed them out. I had one early on where I got a hard brake for a highway gore with a traffic barrel. That spot is no longer a problem.

Phantom braking exists, at least in part, because Tesla has to err on the side of caution. "When in doubt, brake"

My point here is that when you drive to southern Oregon the car is encountering one set of driving conditions. When driving to Boise, it's encountering another. If you're driving through eastern Washington on your way to Boise, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that heat shimmers are common.
 
Phantom braking is a result of the driving environment, not a defect of the hardware in the car, cosmic rays, or some other phenomenon. People have remarked that heat mirages on the road can trigger braking. It's literally braking at a phantom in the road. There have been others, and Tesla has been trying to weed them out. I had one early on where I got a hard brake for a highway gore with a traffic barrel. That spot is no longer a problem.

Phantom braking exists, at least in part, because Tesla has to err on the side of caution. "When in doubt, brake"

My point here is that when you drive to southern Oregon the car is encountering one set of driving conditions. When driving to Boise, it's encountering another. If you're driving through eastern Washington on your way to Boise, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that heat shimmers are common.
Good points... it did brake one time when the asphalt went from light grey to a very dark grey, sigh...

"software bugs", that made me chuckle.
 
I drove from Spokane to Seattle and back this weekend. One hard phantom brake headed west and two hard phantom braking events headed east. All three occurred on the highway between Ellensburg and Moses Lake in the early to mid afternoon. There were heat mirages on the road when I was headed west but none when I was headed east. All three events occurred with no bridges or other traffic around….just a wide open road. One occured right after I overtook a slower driver ….I hope he didn’t think I was brake-checking him. It’s very disconcerting and could be dangerous. If I had had passengers they would have freaked. This is not ok. Has there ever been any improvements? Is Tesla aware of the problem? What is their official response? Has there been an effort to characterize and define the issue in an effort to determine what set of conditions trigger phantom braking? Does time of day, sun angle, road topography more apt to trigger an event? Is the there a collected body of knowledge regarding phantom braking that can help folks? Thanks!
 
2 weeks ago, I purchased my first new MYLR here in Colorado, Hardware 4.

Last night, me, my wife and our dog returned from our first long road trip: 10 days to and from Seattle on interstate highways. Driving out west, we drove diagonally through northwest Colorado, then Utah, Idaho, Oregon, and up into Washington. On the return, we drove straight west through Washington, the north finger of Idaho, most of Montana, then down into and vertically through Wyoming, and straight south back into central Colorado.

In 2 weeks, I have downloaded and installed 4 software updates, the last one was 2 days ago during and after Supercharging. Each update was seamless.

During every day of interstate highway driving (6 days of driving about 450 miles each; I now have 3,200 miles on the car), I experienced unexplained hard braking. Conditions: clear weather, temperatures between 75 and 100 deg F, always straight highway, and no cars or obstacles in the road ahead of me.

My wife became worried about this random hard braking immediately and said "you have to report this to Tesla when we get back home. Someone could hit us from behind!" I told her that I would look into it, and sure enough, I see here on the forum that it is not an uncommon problem.

At first, I had all of the FSD options and all the sensing turned on. After I spoke to a few fellow Tesla owners at the several Supercharging stations we stopped at, I decided to switch off ALL of the sensing and automatic driving options. Here is what I learned from personal experience so far: if I was driving without "cruise control" and/or accelerating, the car did not randomly hard brake. Once I engaged "cruise control", meaning all FSD and sending turned off, but toggled into "constant speed mode" and set the speed with my steering right wheel wheel, it was only a matter of time till repeated hard braking occurred on a random but regular basis, roughly every 100 miles or so (so it seemed).

There were some insects crashing into the windshield on the drive out west. Because this car only has cameras to sense, every few Supercharger stops, I thoroughly cleaned the windshield with plain non-allergenic baby wipes then ran the windshield wipers a few seconds to clear the baby wipe lint. I checked the door pillar cameras and they stayed clean without doing anything.

I drove a similar route with a brand new Chrysler Pacifica Pinnacle PHEV in December 2021, and that vehicle's adaptive cruse control behaved very well. There was snow and rain all along the interstate highways, and I never felt worried about engaging it. When snow built up on the front sensor (located near the front bumper) the dashboard alerted me and I stopped as soon as possible to clean those sensors with a baby wipe or two.

I sincerely hope that Tesla figures out how to stop the model Y from randomly braking hard when something as simple as cruise/speed control is set for use on interstate highways. If they properly address this problem, I might want to purchase a month of FSD when taking long trips: we shall see.
 
Conditions: clear weather, temperatures between 75 and 100 deg F, always straight highway, and no cars or obstacles in the road ahead of me.
What catches my eye in your description is the temperatures and the straight, clear highway. I believe TACC has become sensitive to mirages in the last year or so. If there's traffic ahead, it'll often be closer than the distance at which mirages appear, so no phantom braking. But when no one is around, and a mirage appears ahead, I think the car "sees" an obstacle and panics as it's uncertain how close it is.

Having said that, we went to the Bay Area and Sacramento and back last weekend, largely on I-5, and had zero mirage panics, even though I saw mirages and was braced for trouble. This was on 2023.7.10.
 
What catches my eye in your description is the temperatures and the straight, clear highway. I believe TACC has become sensitive to mirages in the last year or so. If there's traffic ahead, it'll often be closer than the distance at which mirages appear, so no phantom braking. But when no one is around, and a mirage appears ahead, I think the car "sees" an obstacle and panics as it's uncertain how close it is.

Having said that, we went to the Bay Area and Sacramento and back last weekend, largely on I-5, and had zero mirage panics, even though I saw mirages and was braced for trouble. This was on 2023.7.10.
That is Interesting, and I'm glad that you had a peaceful drive with no hard-braking events on I-5.

I neglected to mention that our hard-braking events only happened during brightly lit daylight hours; when it was cloudy or was raining, and when we drove fast through Denver in their toll-tagged Express lanes, TACC behaved just fine (shew).
 
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Today I drove across NW Texas in hot, clear conditions and had three substantial phantom braking incidents with cruise control engaged. At 80mph without anything that was threatening. Just driving down the road, sufficiently bored that using CC was the solution to maintaining a steady speed. I’m in a 2018 M3 Competition model that belongs to a friend.
Two years ago I experienced repeated phantom braking while driving our own 2021 M3LR on a trip to Illinois. This was very unnerving since the road wasn’t empty and if I had someone too close they might have hit me.
Given some years of this defect it amazes me nobody has been killed and NHTSA hasn’t taken an interest. Tesla certainly hasn’t acted responsibly!
 
Disabling AEB doesn't stop PB because PB isn't AEB it's TACC slowing down to what it perceives as a vehicle in your lane moving much much slower.
I'm sure there is some gigantic software engineering reason why they aren't the same thing and my smooth brain can't comprehend, but that seems like incredible hair splitting to me. In both instances, it's the car recognizing an obstacle and forcing a stop to avoid an otherwise imminent crash.
 
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Phantom braking is a result of the driving environment, not a defect of the hardware in the car, cosmic rays, or some other phenomenon. People have remarked that heat mirages on the road can trigger braking. It's literally braking at a phantom in the road. There have been others, and Tesla has been trying to weed them out. I had one early on where I got a hard brake for a highway gore with a traffic barrel. That spot is no longer a problem.

Phantom braking exists, at least in part, because Tesla has to err on the side of caution. "When in doubt, brake"

My point here is that when you drive to southern Oregon the car is encountering one set of driving conditions. When driving to Boise, it's encountering another. If you're driving through eastern Washington on your way to Boise, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that heat shimmers are common.
Phantom braking is the result of software defects (and possibly hardware defects as well.) The entire job of TACC is to function in the driving environment. If it can't do that then it's just 'plain' cruise control.

I use FSD far more often than TACC but recently I've used TACC several times and been quite disappointed. I had it brake from 60 MPH down to 20 MPH on the highway. There was no one else around so I just let it go to see what it would do but what other adaptive cruise system does that?
 
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The entire job of TACC is to function in the driving environment. If it can't do that then it's just 'plain' cruise control.
It's far worse than just plain cruise control. With cruise control, you maintain a set speed until you disconnect or hit something solid, and there is no braking for phantoms. I wish plain cruise control was an option.
 
ACC braking hard for no reason is the number one stressor and problem with our 2023 MYLR. If there was some way to drop back to a dumb cruise control, I would just use that instead. But combined with some other new problems with ACC in 2023.32 , cruise control is almost unusable. That and lack of V2L / bidirectional charging are why we are already in the market for something else.
 
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There have been complaints to the NHTSA, and apparently at least one injury accident and one fatal accident linked to phantom braking.

Anyone can report what they feel is unsafe behavior to the NHTSA, and those on X can bring up the issue with Elon. My car is five years old, and I've had the problem for five years. I believe it's a side effect of Tesla engineers trying to fix the tendency of Autopilot to run full bore into firetrucks and other stationary objects.

A related but only mildly annoying problem while on TACC is, while changing lanes to pass a slower car, my car will decelerate briefly then recover as it either falsely sees the other car in my (new) lane or sees a different car much further ahead in my new lane as closer than it actually is.

These are the reasons I wish I could use dumb cruise control-- I'm quite capable of managing the distance between me and other objects on the road, while TACC apparently is not.
 
How is that possible? In my Model 3, TACC is always engaged when FSD is then selected, i.e., no way to select FSD without TACC.
TACC is in the legacy software stack (blue arrow). If you have FSD Beta selected/on (red arrow) then it is using the FSD Beta software stack.

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