I have noticed for about a week or two that my P3D's acceleration is being restricted with the famous restriction dots (see image)
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Could Tesla be power limiting P3D?
- Thread starter Perry
- Start date
Continued since I accidentally prematurely posted.
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These dots usually appear if the battery is in danger of overheating and acceleration must be restricted in order to protect it from damage. The more dots the more drastic the restriction. 4 dots turns your P3D into an RWD and 8 dots into an ICE car with a mushy accelerator pedal.
My concern is that this is a rather recent phenomenon. I have always driven my car very hard and in the past it has been almost impossible to get the car into this state. Only if I drove it hard on some mountain road for 40min + would I experience this restriction at which point the fan would kick in and would make the dots go away in seconds if just easing a little on the spirited driving.
But for about one or two weeks, I am getting this condition all the time. Two days ago I got it right after a single hard launch two minutes into my drive. This after the car has been sitting for hours in 54 degrees wheather so we know the car started out cold.
I though for sure there is something wrong so I scheduled a service appointment on line which asks you to provide details about you problem. The next day, before the appointment, the service center called me, having read what I wrote, and told me they already diagnosed my car remotely and said they could not find any problem (no fault was found). I kept telling them that something must be wrong and even gave them a video documenting the problem and they maintained that this is normal and canceled my appointment.
After thinking about it I have a suspicion that in the last over the air update, which kind of coincides with when this started, Tesla might have made some changes to this algorithm to limit the P3D's performance earlier in order to save them some possible warantee problems down the road. So I think they gimped our cars and made them worse.
The other possibility is that there is something wrong with my car but they just don't have visibility into the problem. The fan is no longer audible as it was before when this condition occurs. All I know is that I hate driving this thing now. It sucks bad.
Another possibility might be that since Tesla has such visibility into our cars, they might see how I and others like me drive, and have an algorithm that specifically targets spirited drivers and limits their cars again to limit their warantee liability.
These are all possibilities. What do you guys think?
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These dots usually appear if the battery is in danger of overheating and acceleration must be restricted in order to protect it from damage. The more dots the more drastic the restriction. 4 dots turns your P3D into an RWD and 8 dots into an ICE car with a mushy accelerator pedal.
My concern is that this is a rather recent phenomenon. I have always driven my car very hard and in the past it has been almost impossible to get the car into this state. Only if I drove it hard on some mountain road for 40min + would I experience this restriction at which point the fan would kick in and would make the dots go away in seconds if just easing a little on the spirited driving.
But for about one or two weeks, I am getting this condition all the time. Two days ago I got it right after a single hard launch two minutes into my drive. This after the car has been sitting for hours in 54 degrees wheather so we know the car started out cold.
I though for sure there is something wrong so I scheduled a service appointment on line which asks you to provide details about you problem. The next day, before the appointment, the service center called me, having read what I wrote, and told me they already diagnosed my car remotely and said they could not find any problem (no fault was found). I kept telling them that something must be wrong and even gave them a video documenting the problem and they maintained that this is normal and canceled my appointment.
After thinking about it I have a suspicion that in the last over the air update, which kind of coincides with when this started, Tesla might have made some changes to this algorithm to limit the P3D's performance earlier in order to save them some possible warantee problems down the road. So I think they gimped our cars and made them worse.
The other possibility is that there is something wrong with my car but they just don't have visibility into the problem. The fan is no longer audible as it was before when this condition occurs. All I know is that I hate driving this thing now. It sucks bad.
Another possibility might be that since Tesla has such visibility into our cars, they might see how I and others like me drive, and have an algorithm that specifically targets spirited drivers and limits their cars again to limit their warantee liability.
These are all possibilities. What do you guys think?
Rubicon Beast
Member
Could it be that car is too cold due to the weather?
I have noticed this the last few days since we’ve had a cold front (in the 30’s F) blow through.
Admittedly, I don’t drive my car as hard as you.
I have noticed this the last few days since we’ve had a cold front (in the 30’s F) blow through.
Admittedly, I don’t drive my car as hard as you.
timk225
Active Member
In the past week or so, I had a few dots on the right when the battery was low and I was driving as I usually do, and last week I had those dots reach nearly to the middle as the battery was already low when I got to work, then it sat in 40 degree weather for 8 hours and I had to get home. That story deserves its own topic.
But yes, Tesla is holding the P3D back. They can't have it being faster then the S100D Ludicrous, that's not good for corporate profits.
But yes, Tesla is holding the P3D back. They can't have it being faster then the S100D Ludicrous, that's not good for corporate profits.
That's not the reason you're getting the dots with a low battery and colder weather.
Msjulie
Active Member
It's pretty pretty cold here, for our part of the world anyway, and even my garaged 3 has shown the little limiting dots - though mostly it has shown regen limitation vs go limits.
Another post folks (and me) were thinking it would be nice to have a programed charge end-time so the battery would be warmer on these cold days
Not really related Tesla Model 3 is starting to show some important flaws in cold weather
When I was on the cold NE coast, freezing door handles was common and we had those cans of stuff to thaw them out.. I guess we're all spoiled with cars with heated door handles?
Another post folks (and me) were thinking it would be nice to have a programed charge end-time so the battery would be warmer on these cold days
Not really related Tesla Model 3 is starting to show some important flaws in cold weather
When I was on the cold NE coast, freezing door handles was common and we had those cans of stuff to thaw them out.. I guess we're all spoiled with cars with heated door handles?
astrowunder
Member
Wow I can't believe (actually I can based on my horrible customer service experiences) that the service guys didn't see an issue with your car. Are you doing mountain driving or is this mostly on the flat? That power usage is crazy. What's your average WH/Mile right now?
diamond.g
Active Member
Do you have the option to turn on Track mode to see if it gets better? I wonder if this is like the Power Limiting thing Tesla did with the P90D's last year.
sreams
Member
He did say he drives hard. I've autocrossed my RWD 3 and gotten 1300Wh/mile. Daily driving (quick but not "hard") my average is 280Wh/mile. So 600+Wh/mile is possible if you drive aggressively.
astrowunder
Member
The reason that is not a possibility is because when it is too cold those dots appear before you start driving and as the car worms up they go away. Also a little snow flake icon is presented. In my case they come up only when the car is pushed but immediately after its pushed and they don't if driving normal. Also this didn't happen before under same weather conditions. I am also in CA where we don't have cold weather.
But this has not been the case for me in the first month of owning it and I driving it super hard then too. In fact I duplicated the exact conditions and roads. So this is a new phenomenon either because of something broken or change in over the air software update. Also here where I live we still get 74 degree weather so temperature can't be an issue and I have not driven the car with low battery.
Its not cool soaked. I can drive the car normally for hours until it is categorically warmed up then the moment I push it, I get the dots within 2 minutes. This is a head soak indication. Tested in all temperature ranges available here in CA (54 to 80). It happens in all temps now and it didn't happen before last over the air update. Also I can't hear the fan as I would in the past when pushing the car.
Mountain driving at obscene speeds but again its not something new. I have done it before with no problems. This just started happening.
My average life time WH/Mile is 480.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
He promised it would be released for both Ps
He didn't give a date.
It's out for the P3D+ now- I expect SW is working on the lesser spec version for the - as we speak.
By accelerating hard at every opportunity. Then slowing down on the corners just enough not fly of the cliff then back to full acceleration. Basically there is no coast -- just braking or pedal to the floor. Also the P3D is a heavy power consumer even when driving like a snail. One day I tried really hard to get the rated Wh/mile and although I got close I found it was impossible to achieve. Maybe if you drive exactly 30 mph continuously or only downhill?
My suspicion is that Tesla's prying eye is watching our every move and is limiting more aggressive drivers. I know they have the ability to do so because I told the SC the exact time I had the problem and they where able to look into their logs and see exactly what I was doing: speed, acceleration, and a whole other bunch of metrics they collect on us continuously and store for retroactive analysis.
We don't actually own our cars if at will they can dispatch a patch and make your cars slower based on what they deem a danger to their warantee liability.
I have been meaning to do my own testing on 9, and intentionally push the DU/battery into the power limiting area, and time myself and also take a picture of the energy graph. Sounds like a weekend trip to reggae pot is in order. Might try to do a back to back test with and without track mode.
I hate the stealth updates they do, its much harder to evaluate if there is an issue with your car when the parameters change during an update and they don't declare it.
All of your scenarios are possible at this point. It sure would be nice if we had some kind of diagnostic mode, so we could see the heat of the given components in degrees.
The power throttling system is likely pretty complex, it probably senses the heat at the inverter, DU, coolant temp pre/post exchanger, battery temp maybe more. None of us knows which is the limiting hardware, or if perhaps the software has been tweaked to lower the thermal limits to me more in line with the Other S/X models.
It is also possible that similar to the supercharging charge speed throttling for individual cars, that there may be a power output throttling for some cars. Could be they are preventing a warranty issue, by throttling you now, rather than let you torture your car till it breaks under warranty lol.
It could also be that one of your components is still working but has an issue where its generating excess heat due to a high resistance connection, or failing but not failed component. If a service tech was looking at this issue remotely, its probably looking to them like you "Drive too hard" .
They may look at individual sensors and see if the temp setpoints are properly throttling you, but they have little to go on when comparing you to another user. Even among P3D drivers you drive hard. Harder than anyone I have heard of short of a full race track.
Imagine that for instance your DU is failing, and the failure mode is some component is producing 5-10x the heat it should be. During normal driving the cooling system keeps up just fine, but the issue becomes obvious during race conditions. How is the tech to know the difference between your car when the DU temp setpoint is hit in 2 minutes, causing throttling, vs the average person who hits that high temp setpoint in 10-20 minutes? If they compare power graphs, yours likely looks higher than most. Conclusion, he's driving hard and is limiting power sooner than the average driver.
This sounds like a very difficult problem to diagnose, too many moving parts. Best I can do to help is drive fast myself and see what happens. Unfortunately I didn't take any consumption data from before the track mode update, so there's no benchmark within my car, but we could compare the consumption between our 2 cars. If I manage a similar consumption, and also don't get throttling within a similar time frame, then we can at least assume its an issue specific to your car, even if we cant understand if its hardware or software.
I hate the stealth updates they do, its much harder to evaluate if there is an issue with your car when the parameters change during an update and they don't declare it.
All of your scenarios are possible at this point. It sure would be nice if we had some kind of diagnostic mode, so we could see the heat of the given components in degrees.
The power throttling system is likely pretty complex, it probably senses the heat at the inverter, DU, coolant temp pre/post exchanger, battery temp maybe more. None of us knows which is the limiting hardware, or if perhaps the software has been tweaked to lower the thermal limits to me more in line with the Other S/X models.
It is also possible that similar to the supercharging charge speed throttling for individual cars, that there may be a power output throttling for some cars. Could be they are preventing a warranty issue, by throttling you now, rather than let you torture your car till it breaks under warranty lol.
It could also be that one of your components is still working but has an issue where its generating excess heat due to a high resistance connection, or failing but not failed component. If a service tech was looking at this issue remotely, its probably looking to them like you "Drive too hard" .
They may look at individual sensors and see if the temp setpoints are properly throttling you, but they have little to go on when comparing you to another user. Even among P3D drivers you drive hard. Harder than anyone I have heard of short of a full race track.
Imagine that for instance your DU is failing, and the failure mode is some component is producing 5-10x the heat it should be. During normal driving the cooling system keeps up just fine, but the issue becomes obvious during race conditions. How is the tech to know the difference between your car when the DU temp setpoint is hit in 2 minutes, causing throttling, vs the average person who hits that high temp setpoint in 10-20 minutes? If they compare power graphs, yours likely looks higher than most. Conclusion, he's driving hard and is limiting power sooner than the average driver.
This sounds like a very difficult problem to diagnose, too many moving parts. Best I can do to help is drive fast myself and see what happens. Unfortunately I didn't take any consumption data from before the track mode update, so there's no benchmark within my car, but we could compare the consumption between our 2 cars. If I manage a similar consumption, and also don't get throttling within a similar time frame, then we can at least assume its an issue specific to your car, even if we cant understand if its hardware or software.
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