They never declared that you could have full power 24/7 regardless of heat. Throttling you to prevent a warranty issue is no different than throttling everyone, or uncorking everyone. As long as the instant horsepower and 0-60 times are as advertised, I don't think you'd have a legal argument.
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Could Tesla be power limiting P3D?
- Thread starter Perry
- Start date
They never declared that you could have full power 24/7 regardless of heat. Throttling you to prevent a warranty issue is no different than throttling everyone, or uncorking everyone. As long as the instant horsepower and 0-60 times are as advertised, I don't think you'd have a legal argument.
diamond.g
Active Member
Can you turn on your A/C and see if that helps? Having a canbus reader would be helpful in determining why power was pulled, though the safest bet is due to battery or motors overheating.
TANGO SUKKA
Member
parviz, stop driving like a douche on public streets. go to the track if you want to rail.
I never said the car should not do some throttling when its components overheat but I am simply comparing its behavior now to how it was weeks ago and it is completely different and this is how:
1. Before I got dots only after ~40 min. of hard driving. Now after 2 min.
2. Before when I did get the dots all I had to do was lay off the accelerator for a little, while continuing to drive, and after 5-15 seconds all the dots would be cleared away by the loud fans. Now they don't clear away unless I completely stop and they take 2 minutes to clear.
3. Before I would hear a super loud fan toil away at removing the heat when the dots came. Now complete silence, no fan. Although I still hear the fan during supercharging so I know its not broken.
These are not trivial changes. I think how it was before was the proper throttling that I can live with and still not full power 24/7.
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Tried with heat, with AC, and with both off. No difference.
Well, yea am am positive is due to an overheating situation just can't explain why this was not a problem before the last update and now it is.
My comment was in response to your comment about how we don't own our cars if they can change it. Time to get a canbus reader to do some data logging if possible.
Which update do you think made this change? I agree, not trivial. It could be the fan only turns on when the coolant temp asks for it, one more reason why it might be your car specifically. If its the DU that has an overheating component, the coolant loop might not really be helping that particular hot spot.
That's actually how I tested my car on Highway 9 from Los Gatos to Santa Cruz at 2AM so no slow poke gets in the way of my tests. Before I use to get to Santa Cruz and only at the end I would get some dots that would go away almost instantly after slowing down. Now I get them after 2-5 minutes.
I agree.
Does something like this exist?
That would suck if they did that.
I had the same thought since I had heard that for some owners, that charge frequently at SC, they throttle their charging speed down. So there is some proof that they target owners individually.
I agree the SC is clueless. I just don't know how to approach them so they can do something about it.
That would be a good test. It would be good if we could meet and actually drive together and record it as proof because they keep saying that the conditions are not the same so I should not expect the car to behave the same as in the past. Sure not the same but the differences are too drastic to ignore.
I wish I knew how to do that.
I think its either the last one I have now v2018.42.3 or the one before v2018.42.x. I only noticed it since the last one but I haven't driven hard between these two versions so it could have been the previous one. For sure its after v9.
Other possibility is that the restrictive change was always in the code but only got triggered under certain conditions.
So the DU is not cooled by the coolant loop?
I would think if the computer had enough knowledge to limit power based on the DU alone, outside of coolant loop, then they could sense a DU overheat and raise a fault? SC said there was no fault.
I am pretty sure the DU would have a coolant loop, I am just guessing really. I could see a scenario where the cooling was doing its job in the places where heat normally occurs, but the failing component of the DU perhaps isn't near enough to the coolant to shed heat quickly. If the coolant was absorbing the heat appropriately then the fan would go on. Since its not, I am trying to guess why not. I have no data that the DU is failing at all, just a thought experiment to solve your issues. I'm still assuming a failed component is most likely based on your driving style. I'd not expect the software to be throttling you so severely, so likely a coincidence.
Do a google search about CANbus, its pretty common among many cars. I bet a speed tuning shop could plug into it, and get some basic parameters. I am sure that the Tesla diagnostic mode could read the temperature values but I have only seen one youtube video where a non tesla engineer has shown the guts of one.
paranoidroid
Member
I agree this is a very tough problem to solve and the SC is probably not equipped to diagnose it yet. The best thing is to find a friend or someone who will let you drive their P3D the same way and see if the behavior is the same.
That might be difficult to arrange but this will at least tell you if it's your specific car.
That might be difficult to arrange but this will at least tell you if it's your specific car.
Don't guess, it just adds to the confusion. Model 3 does not have an OBDII port and also doesn't have any easily accessed place to tie into the CAN bus. The drive unit (motor and inverter) are cooled with oil which is sealed in the unit and the oil itself is cooled via a plate chiller that runs coolant through it.
The part that overheats is typically (90% of the time) the inverter/drive for the motor and since it's electronic it's reliability and lifespan is significantly affected by increased temperatures.
Wow, no OBD port at all? I thought those were required, but maybe only for vehicles that make emissions. Thanks for the clarification on the cooling of the DU. If the whole thing is bathed in oil then the internal temperature should be pretty consistent.
A quick google search did return some inductive clamp on type CANbus readers, but this is probably not a productive avenue to pursue unless you like to hack yourself. It would be an interesting experiment to tap into all the temperature sensors and see just what is heating up and how fast.
Like was mentioned above comparing cars at least at a high level should give a yes or no answer as to whether its only your car overheating when driven like this or any car that is driven like this.
I'm not really interested in going on a 2 car drive together honestly, nor letting anyone else drive my car. I will do a couple runs over the weekend though and bring back whatever data I can. Maybe others do the same and see just what sort of abuse it takes (total wh/mi used) to trigger heat soak and power reduction and how long that takes.
Regarding Track Mode, I’d hauled up a 10 mile uphill stretch of a winding mountain road pre-track mode and got severely limited power about half way up. Repeated the same drive on Track Mode and full power all the way to the top...I hope P3D- owners get this!
Which firmware version was your pre-track mode run up the hill done with?
timk225
Active Member
Here are some videos of the problem if anyone is interested to duplicate or at least see if they observed something similar under same conditions. You can download them here:
O-File: Shared Items
O-File: Shared Items
To clarify, I think the dots are caused by the low battery and colder weather, not a "detuning" by Tesla.
Why do you have such enormous usage? That looks like going full throttle up and down mountains.
Cold weather or battery too full usually limits regen which are the dots on the left side. I am talking about the dots on the right side.Directly from the ownes manual page 43 and also told by service: Acceleration may be limited (the more dots the more limited) when the battery is reaching a low state of charge or if the powertrain is hot. Since I have never had a low state of charge it is about powertrain getting hot. And this is totally in line with my observations. Dots only appear when the car is pushed hard (i.e. a lot of power is drained from the battery in a shot period)
The reason I think it is de-tuning by Tesla is because the experience I have now is drastically different than just a few weeks ago. Same conditions, same outside temperature.
In that picture, I was going full throttle for testing on mountain roads. But as I have said I now get the dots after just one launch on flat road from just 2 minutes of driving. Also the fan no longer goes on when I have the dots as it did before and the dots go away much slower than before.
