Reference? I seem to recall last time around exploring the idea that you could interconnect PV under a "non-export" agreement, if that was desirable.
Cheers, Wayne
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CPUC NEM 3.0 discussion
- Thread starter jjrandorin
- Start date
Cheers, Wayne
I think the likelihood of not being on NBT being more cost effective is very low with the $15/month replacing the MDCs which are about $11/month.
I think they should have pulled a Hawaii and just made a $10/month or $5/month or something for everyone instead rather than just solar people. I wonder how these IOUs would feel if everyone turned off their solar during peak sun and just don't export anything. I believe all the IOUs are building big storage now and if no one is exporting, they're not charging their batteries much neither during the day if they don't have enough solar themselves.
If this $15/month stays, this is just replacing the $8/kWh monthly which is still better than $15, but still a targeted tax just for solar folks for basic power service which I think everyone should share.
For people doing math on ROI of batteries, the benefit/power to me is still flexibility. It's not a surprise that the IOUs will pay folks near nothing for exports soon (in HI plan too which is 3x more) so for folks who still have to commute and use 2-3x or more during peak energy at night, storage is probably a must since exports will get very low credits now and you'll probably be way underwater.
If this $15/month stays, this is just replacing the $8/kWh monthly which is still better than $15, but still a targeted tax just for solar folks for basic power service which I think everyone should share.
For people doing math on ROI of batteries, the benefit/power to me is still flexibility. It's not a surprise that the IOUs will pay folks near nothing for exports soon (in HI plan too which is 3x more) so for folks who still have to commute and use 2-3x or more during peak energy at night, storage is probably a must since exports will get very low credits now and you'll probably be way underwater.
RKCRLR
Active Member
I agree in most situations but there are some people in California that have sun most of the year. If you have solar + storage + generator backup you may be better off saving $180/year.
Will there still be NBCs besides the lower compensation for exported power? The MDCs were allowed to offset the NBCs on NEM2 but if the NBT is a straight fee then you also loose the NBC credit.
Edit: I see that there are NBCs so the fees will likely be the $15/month plus any NBCs vs the $11/month that offset NBCs.
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RKCRLR
Active Member
This is definitely less than what the utilities were previously asking for, I wonder if they will be for or against it.
Yes, the NBCs are still there for imported energy and it is the same four components as NEM 2.0 has. The ACC Plus adder amounts are documented as being able to offset NBCs, but I don't think that the NBCs would offset the PG&E E-ELEC tariff fixed charge of $0.49281/day. This tariff isn't on the main PG&E page (it goes into effect on 12/1/2022, so it might show up in December), but @hayhayday provided a link a few posts back. https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/adviceletter/ELEC_6690-E.pdf
TOU Period | Hours | PG&E E-ELEC | PG&E EV2A | E-ELEC - EV2A |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Summer Peak | 4pm-9pm | $0.52942 | $0.55950 | -$0.03008 |
| Summer Part-Peak | 3pm-4pm, 9pm-12am | $0.36754 | $0.44901 | -$0.08147 |
| Summer Off-Peak | 12am-3pm | $0.31086 | $0.24699 | +$0.06387 |
| Winter Peak | 4pm-9pm | $0.29416 | $0.43239 | -$0.13823 |
| Winter Part-Peak | 3pm-4pm, 9pm-12am | $0.27207 | $0.41569 | -$0.14362 |
| Winter Part -Peak | 12am-3pm | $0.25821 | $0.24699 | +$0.01122 |
The rates in the Winter (Oct-May) are better for E-ELEC and that is 8 months of the year versus the 4 months for Summer (Jun-Sep) so maybe the fixed charge of $0.49281/day or ~$15/month makes it neutral on the year for non-solar, but for solar I don't think so.
So the IOUs, the IOUs shill group, rooftop solar trade groups, enviro/consumer advocacy groups, and the UC Berkeley economist have issues with it going-to-far or not-far-enough and are unhappy. Sounds like a middle ground has been found.
California pushes a new plan to cut rooftop solar incentives
Homes and businesses would receive lower payments for clean power they send to the grid — but not as low as under an earlier proposal.
www.latimes.com
Speaking of storage - how do you like your 2x Enphase 10 system? Hard to directly compare to the Powerwall, but do you have any thoughts on the flexibility it gives you?
charlesj
Active Member
IOUs should go bankrupt, and the state runs it all. 
I'm a big Enphase fan. Unlike some of the other battery makers, they seem to have a larger market share in the US (Sonnen is big in Europe I think). There are plenty of issues with LG batteries for home storage you can read about and that other company with Pink Solar or something, Generac (7 bil market cap) I think. Enphase is at 42 bil.
Generator support is live already, it's modular so 1 bad battery means your 2 others are working (on an Enphase 10). The Enphase 10T is as thin as PWs now also.
Price for me was no more than Tesla PWs but the main downside is Powerwalls are 13.5 kWH vs. 10 kWH for Enphase. Enphase is passive cooling, more quiet, LFP (this alone sold me honestly, but less energy density). They have stated they are working on V2H (2024) so unlike Tesla which will hurt their PW sales to allow Tesla cars to V2H, Enphase doesn't have a conflict of interest there since customers will still need to probably buy their smart controller to support V2H. I think folks will still get home batteries (just less) and would like to hook up their F150 if they could.
Another downside is Enphase doesn't work with SPAN panels if you want to go with those software/smarter panels.
I think 4x 10 batteries is the sweet spot for me without overdoing it. I'm hoping in 4 years, maybe V2H will be a reality at least. GM is getting in the game too I think.
Thanks for the input - I've been an Enphase fan for a long time (have had solar w/Enphase inverters since 2010). It's time to upgrade the system and I really want batteries to give me that same flexibility that you were looking for, too.
Just trying to decide much much more than 10 kWh I want - 10 kWh would be the best bang for the buck as I can just about fully cycle that every day, but 20 kWh would eliminate peak-hour usage in just about all circumstances, plus save some energy for an inevitable morning peak TOU rate that I see coming eventually and we can already see the hints of in NEM 3.0. 20 kWh would also let me avoid manual time shifting of loads around peak hours, too.
Enphase is supposedly working on their next gen batteries, but it seems that it won't be ready until later next year.
No change to the NEM 2.0 20 year term in this proposal. When the 20 years are up then you would be transitioned to NEM 3.0 with the two year fixed export pricing.
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charlesj
Active Member
RKCRLR
Active Member
If you get it done before 4/15/2023 (current expected date) then you would remain NEM 3.0. If it just ESS then you can stay with NEM 2.0 even after NEM 3.0 starts. I'm not 100% sure about increasing PV after NEM 3.0 starts.
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