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Crazy process of getting quotes for NEMA 14-50

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There is a reason that Tesla explicitly recommends an "industrial grade" receptacle in their guide. Even a tiny contact resistance because of worn out connectors can easily lead to hundreds of watts of loss being turned into heat inside the outlet (remember P=I^2*R). This is not a big issue for many appliances as they don't use high continuous load, but that's exactly what the car charger does. Don't go cheap on this.
 
I am a good example. I had an electrician install my 14-50. He was an experienced Tesla guy that also worked on installing their battery packs.

He did a great job, but I soon noticed that the plug was getting very hot to the touch.

He came back out and replaced the socket, as the pins were short circuting and you could see where they were burned.

Seems that he was out of his usual commercial grade sockets, and stopped at Home Depot on the way over and picked up a 14-50. It obviously was not up to the task and the new one he installed has been running cool ever since.

While everyone wants to get away as cheaply as they can on these garage chargers, the real goal is to get away reasonably, but with only good stuff installed. If you cannot tell the difference between the good and marginal stuff, get a electrician you can trust. If someone tells you they can install without a permit, hang up the phone..
 
Shopping quotes for a NEMA 14-50 plug in my garage here in Hayward, CA and getting quotes from about $500 to $1700...

Pretty all over the place...

While the $500 is very tempting, it is also from the guys who didn’t ask for any photos of my electrical panel or garage...

Going to call them up and see if they’re still there once they have info...

I am almost thinking of holding off for a bit and redirecting the money to wrapping the car in a coating and trying my luck with a standard plug and chargers at work...
(I also thing I will take a tape measure and measure the distance from my laundry room, through my hall, into the garage, and out to the driveway... because if that’s shorter than I think it is...)

How hot do these charge cables get when fully going? Should I NOT run it through my house over a hardwood floor or is it just warn to the touch?

It’s pretty bizzare though how different the quotes are... definitely something people should take stock of... get as many bids as you can get before you get this done as there appears to be no “market rate” yet...
Trying to wrap my head around your comment of “market rate”? Here’s my take, all electricians you asked for a quote have different ideas on how the job is layed out for them. Secondly those that spent the most time with you, probably have the best picture of what they’ll have to do for your install, and most probably will represent the closest real cost for the job. Those that didn’t spend too much time may have figured you were getting multiple quotes and didn’t care to be one of ten, bidding your work. That said every home has a different lay out, panels aren’t in a specific place, and depending on if you have one or two floors, impacts how they’ll have to route the feeder to your desired charging location.
When the first Volts were being released our NECA group were approached by the manufacturer about coming up with some type “market pricing”, (at the time they were asking $2800 just for the charger) what was arrived at was that a licensed contractor would go out of business using a flat rate install price for everyone. PS, they’re all independent business owners, some may have backlogs of business, some may not, but all have overhead, have to deal with the fluctuations of material costs “copper” and all that enters into your delivered bid, just sayin.
 
Hah, I am not a great estimator.

You have to cover your time for doing quotes (and travel if you go to the site), and a trip charge to do the actual work, and the time to procure supplies, capital costs for the van, the actual parts, insurance, and permit (around here I think they have a minor inspection label program for like $35 which they only spot check some of them with an actual inspection - but many areas charge a LOT more). Plus more time if you have to meet an inspector on site.

Note that under 2017 NEC you are supposed to use a GFCI breaker which by itself is over $100. (note that most electricians and inspectors don’t know about this or do/require it)

So yeah, $300 is probably the lower bound. Anything below that is a screaming deal.

A GFCI is not required in an attached garage.
 
You are going to draw near the maximum this outlet is capable of for years,
Depends on how you want to look at that. Because it's a continuous load, you are not allowed to run it near the maximum the outlet is capable of. It's long periods of time, but always far below the outlet's rating.
You may think you won't plug and unplug much, but then end up doing so.
No. This is 2018, not 2013.
 
I am a good example. I had an electrician install my 14-50. He was an experienced Tesla guy that also worked on installing their battery packs.

He did a great job, but I soon noticed that the plug was getting very hot to the touch.

He came back out and replaced the socket, as the pins were short circuting and you could see where they were burned.

Seems that he was out of his usual commercial grade sockets, and stopped at Home Depot on the way over and picked up a 14-50. It obviously was not up to the task and the new one he installed has been running cool ever since.

While everyone wants to get away as cheaply as they can on these garage chargers, the real goal is to get away reasonably, but with only good stuff installed. If you cannot tell the difference between the good and marginal stuff, get a electrician you can trust. If someone tells you they can install without a permit, hang up the phone..
I dunno, commercial electricians might not have a license to work on residential houses, it does not mean they don't know what they are doing. Permit is a permit is a permit. As long as the install will meet all the regulations if you need to get a permit later an install is an install (Yes you should probably get a permit). Some will ask if you want to get a permit or not as it simply adds time and cost to the install or opens up inspections to find other issues. When the inspection came for our solar install everything passed inspection but when I was up in the attic fishing some cat-5e I found all sorts of things that should not have passed inspection. It's because the inspector didn't go up into the attic I guess... Basically there's tons of exposed romex wires left up there, although they are not actually hooked up to any power, another set of romex was run right near the access which I believe is also against regulation. :(
 
One can buy a 14-50 NEMA adapter from Tesla for $35 and leave it plugged in to the 14-50 outlet. Then just unplug from the other end of the adapter. No wear on the 14-50 outlet and you can take your mobile connector with you.

One can do many things. Its not worth the $25 to me. Even just plugging and unplugging the adapter and the weight of the cord and charger is likely going to put force on the pins of the 14-50 outlet.

In this case, My advice is to get the industrial grade outlet as specified by Tesla. Others might be ok with other solutions. Some people use extension cords too for their electric cars.
 
One can do many things. Its not worth the $25 to me. Even just plugging and unplugging the adapter and the weight of the cord and charger is likely going to put force on the pins of the 14-50 outlet.

In this case, My advice is to get the industrial grade outlet as specified by Tesla. Others might be ok with other solutions. Some people use extension cords too for their electric cars.

It is just another option for someone who feels the extra $75 for the Hubbell outlet is not worth it to them. Personally I'm going to use the Hubbell outlet and get the extra 14-50 adapter from Tesla. Less wear and tear on the outlet. But if someone does decide to get the cheaper 14-50 outlet, I think this will at least minimize the wear on it. I do feel that one should get the Hubbell 14-50 but to each his own.
 
One can buy a 14-50 NEMA adapter from Tesla for $35 and leave it plugged in to the 14-50 outlet. Then just unplug from the other end of the adapter. No wear on the 14-50 outlet and you can take your mobile connector with you.
Is there some reason you think the connection between the UMC and the adapter isn't prone to wear? I'd actually rather trust the 14-50 outlet.
 
Is there some reason you think the connection between the UMC and the adapter isn't prone to wear? I'd actually rather trust the 14-50 outlet.

No. With all of the talk here about 14-50 outlet wear from repeated unplugging, I feel that the adapter will wear less than the outlet. It was stated that the NEMA 14-50 outlet was not meant for repeated unplugging. The mobile connector should be, since it is "mobile". I don't have any scientific studies to prove it, just my common sense opinion. I'm going to use both the Hubbell outlet and get the adapter.
 
Is there some reason you think the connection between the UMC and the adapter isn't prone to wear? I'd actually rather trust the 14-50 outlet.
Yeah, I've always thought that suggestion was kind of crazy, putting the repeated wear on a $300 piece of equipment versus a $10 or $70 piece of equipment. You can proactively replace that outlet every 5 or 6 years for cheaper than if you mess up your UMC from detaching that adapter frequently.
No. With all of the talk here about 14-50 outlet wear from repeated unplugging, I feel that the adapter will wear less than the outlet. It was stated that the NEMA 14-50 outlet was not meant for repeated unplugging. The mobile connector should be, since it is "mobile".
I'm not sure why you would think that. Being "mobile" means that the whole thing is smaller and lighter, so you can lift it and carry it around and move it places. I doubt they built it with the expectation that you're going to be pulling its adapters off every day. I sure would not expect that connection point to be made for a lot of plugging cycles. The use case would be either that it's rarely used as a backup, or that it is used constantly at someone's home, which would be on the same connection, not changing adapters every day.
 
Yeah, I've always thought that suggestion was kind of crazy, putting the repeated wear on a $300 piece of equipment versus a $10 or $70 piece of equipment. You can proactively replace that outlet every 5 or 6 years for cheaper than if you mess up your UMC from detaching that adapter frequently.

I'm not sure why you would think that. Being "mobile" means that the whole thing is smaller and lighter, so you can lift it and carry it around and move it places. I doubt they built it with the expectation that you're going to be pulling its adapters off every day. I sure would not expect that connection point to be made for a lot of plugging cycles. The use case would be either that it's rarely used as a backup, or that it is used constantly at someone's home, which would be on the same connection, not changing adapters every day.

Unless they have come out with a wireless charging system, something has to be repeatably unplugged. The mobile adapter is going to be taken from one location to another and repeatedly unplugged. Hence its mobility. Not trying to argue too much but if these charging cables are not built for repeated unplugging, which is how they will be used, then Tesla is going to have a lot of problems when the general non-enthusiast masses start buying their cars. The people on these forums know that care needs to be taken with these cords and outlets.
 
Unless they have come out with a wireless charging system, something has to be repeatably unplugged.
Not at all. Why would you think that? Why do you think you need to take the mobile charging cable with you every single day away from home when you are driving around locally? You do over 200 miles every day, where you would need to charge away from home? That would be well over 50,000 miles a year just for weekdays. Most people don't do that. Remember that Superchargers and Tesla wall connectors and J1772 charging stations don't even use the mobile charging cable, so where could you go in New Jersey that there aren't any access to any charging stations where you would need to plug into someone's outlet? A very large portion of Tesla owners leave the mobile cable plugged in at home hanging on the wall and don't unplug it every day. There generally isn't any reason to.

Not trying to argue too much but if these charging cables are not built for repeated unplugging, which is how they will be used, then Tesla is going to have a lot of problems when the general non-enthusiast masses start buying their cars.
Careful what you're talking about here. This isn't talking about the plug that goes into the charge port, or about the plug pins that go into the outlets. This was about the interface where the adapters plug into the electronics body. That is used when you change what kind of outlet you are going to plug into, and the normal use case is not switching what type of outlet they use every day. And that is especially true for "the general non-enthusiast masses", who aren't going to be switching around outlet types every day from 5-15 to 14-30 to 6-50 to 10-30 to 14-50 to 6-15, where they would be changing adapters all the time putting heavy daily use on that connection.

I'm still coming back to this: Outlets are made to have things plugged in and out of them, but there is some material strain on the springiness of the metal and such that can cause them to have a weaker hold over time. Some people say some of the outlet types don't hold up well to a very large number of plugging and unplugging cycles. Fine.

But the interface of the UMC adapter to the electronics body has the same kind of physical mechanism for the pins and sleeves that would have those same effects. So WHY do people have this weird totally unfounded assumption that it is obviously better, or immune to that effect? I don't see any reason why it would be any better or worse.
 
They're going to know you're lying if you say that. People don't put ovens in their garages. That is commonly known as an RV outlet for big mobile homes, and that would make sense if you want to have an outlet for one of those in your garage. I see that in my neighborhood frequently, where people bring their RV home onto the driveway to work on it or prep it for a trip, and then run a cord into their garage for it.


I think you've figured out the difference correctly. I've seen people compare what the build differences are, and it does have to do with how the spring tensioning is done to deal with a really large number of plugging cycles without having the metal strips in the slots get bent and lose their pressing force on the pins. But yes, for people's cases, where they leave the UMC plugged in most of the time and only remove it a few times a year, the cheap one should be just fine.
Who said anything about range being in garage! ;). Range outlet near (feel free to say how far) from panel. I have this exact setup (basement MIL).
RV plug is better rationale though :)
 
Who said anything about range being in garage! ;). Range outlet near (feel free to say how far) from panel. I have this exact setup (basement MIL).
RV plug is better rationale though :)
At least you had the right appliance. A lot of times I see people say to tell the electrician you want the 14-50 for a clothes dryer. Clothes dryers don't even use that type of outlet.
 
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Not at all. Why would you think that? Why do you think you need to take the mobile charging cable with you every single day away from home when you are driving around locally? You do over 200 miles every day, where you would need to charge away from home? That would be well over 50,000 miles a year just for weekdays. Most people don't do that. Remember that Superchargers and Tesla wall connectors and J1772 charging stations don't even use the mobile charging cable, so where could you go in New Jersey that there aren't any access to any charging stations where you would need to plug into someone's outlet? A very large portion of Tesla owners leave the mobile cable plugged in at home hanging on the wall and don't unplug it every day. There generally isn't any reason to.


Careful what you're talking about here. This isn't talking about the plug that goes into the charge port, or about the plug pins that go into the outlets. This was about the interface where the adapters plug into the electronics body. That is used when you change what kind of outlet you are going to plug into, and the normal use case is not switching what type of outlet they use every day. And that is especially true for "the general non-enthusiast masses", who aren't going to be switching around outlet types every day from 5-15 to 14-30 to 6-50 to 10-30 to 14-50 to 6-15, where they would be changing adapters all the time putting heavy daily use on that connection.
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I guess I'm not sure why I would need to carry the mobile connector with me. I will most likely leave it plugged in and only take it with me if going on a longer trip. I'm coming from an ICE so maybe it's a security blanket thing? As for the plugging/unplugging, I guess what I'm trying to say is I feel that a high quality product should be able to handle that type of normal wear and tear. Whether that is at the NEMA outlet or the charge port.
 
But the interface of the UMC adapter to the electronics body has the same kind of physical mechanism for the pins and sleeves that would have those same effects. So WHY do people have this weird totally unfounded assumption that it is obviously better, or immune to that effect? I don't see any reason why it would be any better or worse.
Nobody outside of Tesla knows the specifications of Tesla's proprietary plug, but the connectors look similar to the ones in the Tesla charge handle or a J1772 handle. The latter is designed to withstand 10,000 mating cycles. Residential grade appliance outlets are simply not designed for this kind of (ab-)use.