Cruise control inappropriately slamming on brakes

[FLMan]

I’m trying to sort out if a new M3 is more prone to phantom braking, not that I’m eager to give up my current ride.

I tend to think that it is until the new M3 gets a software update that moves it off of the version it ships with.

I got mine back in Nov '21 and it had horrible phantom braking to the point I just drove the car and avoided the auto-stuff. After the first update push it mostly went away and the instances have decreased to the point that I use the auto-stuff most of the time on the highway. I still keep my foot over the gas pedal but rarely have to use it.

 

[Hubro]

Pretty discouraging to see how long this has been an issue. I've had my M3 since late 2019 and I don't really remember this being an issue initially. Now I never use TACC when I have passengers anymore, as it's freaking embarrassing when the car suddenly slams the breaks, which happens very regularly. Mostly it happens in predictable situations, such as when a large vehicle passes in the opposite direction. If the road is additionally curving left so it's partially hidden behind incoming traffic, it's almost certain to happen.

In the last few months, the car has also started screaming at me any time I pass the first bend when I leave my house, thinking that I'm driving off the road. I have found absolutely no way to prevent this. Even if I drive 20 km/h and stay perfectly in my lane, it still happens. Super embarrassing when I have passengers.

Frankly I'm sick of these "security" features and I wish I could disable them all. I have never needed them to save me and they have inconvenienced, annoyed, embarrassed or downright scared me probably a thousand times at this point.

 

[alexgr]

Pretty discouraging to see how long this has been an issue. I've had my M3 since late 2019 and I don't really remember this being an issue initially. Now I never use TACC when I have passengers anymore, as it's freaking embarrassing when the car suddenly slams the breaks, which happens very regularly. Mostly it happens in predictable situations, such as when a large vehicle passes in the opposite direction. If the road is additionally curving left so it's partially hidden behind incoming traffic, it's almost certain to happen.

In the last few months, the car has also started screaming at me any time I pass the first bend when I leave my house, thinking that I'm driving off the road. I have found absolutely no way to prevent this. Even if I drive 20 km/h and stay perfectly in my lane, it still happens. Super embarrassing when I have passengers.

Frankly I'm sick of these "security" features and I wish I could disable them all. I have never needed them to save me and they have inconvenienced, annoyed, embarrassed or downright scared me probably a thousand times at this point.

If I feel so embarrassed as you, I'd probably (1) sell the car and (2) would always drive as a passenger.

 

[KArnold]

the car has also started screaming at me any time I pass the first bend when I leave my house, thinking that I'm driving off the road.

Is that specifically the Forward Collision warning? If so, check your "early/late" FCW setting, make sure it is late, or even turn it off in the settings.

There is also the "Lane Departure" setting with "off, warning, assist" options. If that's it, maybe try a different option.

Phantom Braking is still a real thing but much better than it has been. Not sure why but since I started radar-less with FSDB in June, I've had no hard braking events. That includes 2-lane roads with big trucks coming the other direction.

 

[Hubro]

It's lane departure. I seem to remember that setting resets itself after every drive, but I will double check.

 

[sleepydoc]

Pretty discouraging to see how long this has been an issue. I've had my M3 since late 2019 and I don't really remember this being an issue initially. Now I never use TACC when I have passengers anymore, as it's freaking embarrassing when the car suddenly slams the breaks, which happens very regularly. Mostly it happens in predictable situations, such as when a large vehicle passes in the opposite direction. If the road is additionally curving left so it's partially hidden behind incoming traffic, it's almost certain to happen.

In the last few months, the car has also started screaming at me any time I pass the first bend when I leave my house, thinking that I'm driving off the road. I have found absolutely no way to prevent this. Even if I drive 20 km/h and stay perfectly in my lane, it still happens. Super embarrassing when I have passengers.

Frankly I'm sick of these "security" features and I wish I could disable them all. I have never needed them to save me and they have inconvenienced, annoyed, embarrassed or downright scared me probably a thousand times at this point.

I agree- how do you explain that your Tesla can't even manage adaptive cruise control as well as a Toyota Yaris?

 

[Knightshade]

I agree- how do you explain that your Tesla can't even manage adaptive cruise control as well as a Toyota Yaris?

Are you still pretending phantom braking/active cruise issues aren't a common problem in all the other brands too?

Was the extensive list of links to such reports across like 10 different other brands you've been shown a while back insufficient to dissuade this?


Lemme refresh your memory. I'll even start with Toyota for you.

Toyota recalls over 200,000 vehicles in China for non-compliant adaptive cruise control system

They involve 116,551 Corolla vehicles produced by Tianjin FAW Toyota from August 2019 to July 2021 and 109,034 Levin vehicles produced by GAC Toyota from May 2019 to July 2021.

cnevpost.com

Toyota

US government investigates 1.7 million Honda cars over phantom braking | MotorSafety.org

www.motorsafety.org

Honda

U.S. probes 553,000 Nissan Rogue SUVs for unintended emergency braking

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has opened a preliminary investigation into 553,000 Nissan Rogue sport utility vehicles after reports of their automatic emergency braking systems engaging without warning or an obstruction, the agency said on Thursday...

www.reuters.com

Nissan

Ford Recalls F-150s To Repair Cruise Control Radar

In yet another recall for the F-150, Ford has recalled the pickup to repair the cruise control radar module so that the vehicle's safety systems will work correctly.

www.torquenews.com

Ford

Dodge Jeep Recall: Adaptive Cruise Control Allows Unintended Acceleration

Dodge Jeep Recall P31 14V293000. The unintended continued acceleration may increase the risk of a crash.

repairpal.com

Dodge

Alfa Recalls Adaptive Cruise Control

This recall involves 2017-2019 Alfa Romeo Giulia and 2018-2019 Stelvio vehicles. The adaptive cruise control (ACC) may not allow cancellation of the ACC in specific driving conditions...

www.autoserviceprofessional.com

Alfa

Mazda3 Recalled for Sudden, Unexpected Emergency Braking

Consumer Reports shares details of the Mazda3 recall. More than 35,000 Mazda3 vehicles are being recalled because their automatic emergency braking (AEB) system could falsely activate.

www.consumerreports.org

Mazda

Lawsuit Targets Nissan and Infiniti Vehicles for Faulty "Phantom Braking"

www.baileyglasser.com

Infiniti (and nissan again)

Phantom Braking

www.e-tronforum.com

Audi

Adaptive cruise and phantom braking

I love my Palisade except for how often it improperly detects a "phantom" car ahead in my lane, causing it to slow drastically when it doesn't need to. Typically there is a vehicle in the other lane and I suspect it somehow has to do with shadows and/or glare from the other vehicle in addition...

palisadeforums.org

Hyundai

 

[alexgr]

I agree- how do you explain that your Tesla can't even manage adaptive cruise control as well as a Toyota Yaris?

Have YOU actually used the ACC in any Toyota? It KINDOFWORKS but it will silently kill you if you don't watch it really closely. If you don't know it, the statement you made is a propagation of FUD.

 

[alexgr]

Have YOU actually used the ACC in any Toyota? It KINDOFWORKS but it will silently kill you if you don't watch it really closely. If you don't know it, the statement you made is a propagation of FUD.

I agree- how do you explain that your Tesla can't even manage adaptive cruise control as well as a Toyota Yaris?

That said, yes, Tesla's ACC and FSD have a ton of problems. At this time it is foolish to rely on the ACC (let alone the FSD) to the point of closing your eyes and hoping for the best. You have to take it is a work in progress. ACC in other cars suck SO much that nobody really trusts them, but it seems some people complain that Tesla is so good that you may start really trust it too much. Well, it tells more about such people rather than about Tesla. If this bothers to the point you are embarrassed ... the best advise would be to sell the car.

 

[jakimo]

the best advise would be to sell the car

..or just reframe! Get past this, we're in the childhood stages of this kind of AI. It's a blast! Have fun with the journey.. in not-so-many years, it'll be everywhere. If our governments have their way, it may not even be legal to take control of a vehicle on certain roads because FSD technology will be 'so much safer'.. that would stink, hoping it never gets that far

After using FSD AI for some years now, in various stages of growth, I've simply learned to be selective when I use it. It's kinda like a person new to driving stick: it take 1-2 weeks to shift in such a way that no one around you realizes you're driving a manual. The same can be done now with FSD, it works fine for its stage of progress.. have fun with it!

 

[sleepydoc]

Have YOU actually used the ACC in any Toyota? It KINDOFWORKS but it will silently kill you if you don't watch it really closely. If you don't know it, the statement you made is a propagation of FUD.

Um, yeah. My sister had a 2011 Prius that I drove for a week - it worked perfectly. My Brother in law has a Prius now and never has an issue. I rented a Toyota Camry a month ago and it was flawless. (the lane-keep assist feature was crap, though.) My other sister also has a Prius (don't ask) and ACC works perfectly for her, too. So, yeah, I have used ACC in a Toyota and it works perfectly. (Toyota's ACC doesn't slow to 0MPH, though, but that's an intentional design decision, not a flaw.)

We have ACC in a Forester we got a year and a half ago. zero issues in over 10k miles of driving. My coworker also has a Subaru. I asked her if she ever has issues with hers - nope. She also has model 3 and says it brakes all the time for no reason. Hmmmm...

I rented a Nissan Rogue a few months ago. ACC worked perfectly In that car, too. Zero issues.

My statement was based on actual experience as well as the first hand experience of others. The fact that Tesla's ACC is crap is widely known and documented, so my statement is hardly FUD. I would classify your statement as blind denial, though.

we're in the childhood stages of this kind of AI.

Hardly. Adaptive cruise control has been around for over a decade. To be clear, I'm not talking about FSD or even lane keep assist, simply plain adaptive cruise that adjusts your speed to keep a set distance between you and the car in front of you. FSD is clearly in its infancy and rapidly changing. Adaptive cruise has been around long enough that even lower end cars are featuring it.

 

[DarkForest]

(Toyota's ACC doesn't slow to 0MPH, though, but that's an intentional design decision, not a flaw.)

While that’s true for older Toyotas, my 2016 Prius was usable between 0 and 112 mph. It was perfect in stop and go highway traffic.

While I love the Beta, it still phantom brakes on me almost daily (progress has been made over the last 8 months, to be fair), whereas my Prius never phantom braked on me once in the five years I drove it.

In the Prius, I didn’t have to worry about keeping my foot near the pedals. In my Model 3, I’ve grown some muscle in my right leg from hovering over the accelerator all the time to deal with phantom braking. Regarding basic ACC, it felt like a huge downgrade and still does to some extent.

 

[Knightshade]

I rented a Nissan Rogue a few months ago. ACC worked perfectly In that car, too. Zero issues.

MEANWHILE BACK IN REALITY...

U.S. probes 553,000 Nissan Rogue SUVs for unintended emergency braking

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has opened a preliminary investigation into 553,000 Nissan Rogue sport utility vehicles after reports of their automatic emergency braking systems engaging without warning or an obstruction, the agency said on Thursday...

www.reuters.com

Seriously dude- you keep insisting every other brand is perfect at this- and literally a couple posts above yours are sourced evidence your claim is grossly false about at least ten other car brands including toyota and nissan

My previous list didn't include Subarau which you just brought up, so here's a few of those too-

Hard ghost braking in turn at 75 mph

www.subaruoutback.org

https://www.aboutautomobile.com/Consumer-Complaint/2022/Subaru/Forester/Automatic-Emergency-Braking

Eyesight system concerns

www.subaruoutback.org

my statement is hardly FUD.

It's exactly FUD.

Not that Teslas phantom brake- but your repeatedly false claims ONLY Teslas do.

 

[alexgr]

I rented a Toyota Camry a month ago and it was flawless. (the lane-keep assist feature was crap, though.) (Toyota's ACC doesn't slow to 0MPH, though, but that's an intentional design decision, not a flaw.)

So, Toyota will kill you driving off the road and slamming into stopped cars... and you are apparently okay with it. You have a very different bar for two different T-cars.
By the way, according to my experience, ACC without AP eliminates phantom breaking in Tesla.

 

[Boye]

This is not a tesla or autopilot problem.

It's an inherent problem in all existing radar-based braking systems.

Numerous other auto makers have it even worse- including safety recalls in some cases and class action lawsuits.

Couple of examples-

Phantom Braking Leads to Mazda 3 Recall - The Truth About Cars.

Mazda recalling tens of thousands of cars for phantom braking issues.


U.S. probes 553,000 Nissan Rogue SUVs for unintended emergency braking

NHTSA investigating over half a million nissans for unintended emergency braking


I DO expect the re-write to significantly improve things though.

I bet Mazda and Nissan fixed the problem. Tesla cant or wont fix it.

I do not understand that it is legal to drive a car on the road with a safety problem like that.

I was soooo close to ordering a model y until I read and saw the videos about autopilot, auto wipers and auto high beam which are all useless.

I am absolutely stunned that a company which constantly brags of there smart cars cant make these things work.

I have a 10 years old Mercedes c, I have had it for 6 years and driven 100000 km in it.
The adaptive cruise control and lane assist have not failed once.
The auto high beam also have never failed.
Maybe 2-3 times a year the wipers will wipe for a short time when there is no rain.

The Mercedes use a radar

It`s a damn shame because I liked the car a lot, the infotainment system is second to none.

 

[Boye]

Hi, first post here.

I'm having significant issues with the adaptive cruise control. There is a 2 lane road near me with a 50 limit, and I like to set the cruise to stop me speeding. However, on a couple off occasions the cruise control has hammered on the brakes when a truck has been coming the other way - despite being safely and completely in its own lane.

I have had the same thing on motorways; overtake something, then pull back into the middle lane with a lorry in the inside lane. The cruise control seems to think that I am going to drive into the lorry and, again, hammers on the brakes.

It is lucky that I haven't had anyone smash into the back of me. I've had to stop using cruise on 2 lane roads and hover my foot over the accelerator when anywhere near a lorry on the motorway in case it decides to randomly fire me through the windshield.

Am I alone in this?

I do not understand that it is legal to drive a car on the road with a safty problem like that.

I was sooooooooooooo close to ordering a model y until I read and saw all the videos about autopilot, auto wipers and auto high beam which are all useless.

I am absolutely stunned that a company which constantly brags of there smart cars cant make these things work.

I have a 10 years old mercedes c, I have had it for 6 years and driven 100000 km in it.
The adaptive cruise control and lane assist have not failed once.
The auto high beam also have never failed.
Maybe 2-3 times a year the wipers will wipe for a short time when there is no rain.

Damn shame I really liked the car.

 

[Knightshade]

I do not understand that it is legal to drive a car on the road with a safty problem like that.

The safety problem is imaginary.

If it wasn't just drama queens over-reacting to the normal unexpected braking every such system does, and warns you about in every brands manual then there'd be actual reports of widespread accidents caused by it in Teslas.

There's not though. OTHER brands have had actual safety issues with numerous documented accidents and even recalls over this stuff-(I linked to many of them just a few posts ago)-- Tesla has not.


Interesting only-ever post from an account created today though

 

[alexgr]

I do not understand that it is legal to drive a car on the road with a safty problem like that.

Dan O'Dowd, re-login please.
No offense but when a brand new account begins with big accusations like that, it makes no sense to me.

 

[alexgr]

The safety problem is imaginary.

If it wasn't just drama queens over-reacting to the normal unexpected braking every such system does, and warns you about in every brands manual then there'd be actual reports of widespread accidents caused by it in Teslas.

Well, it is a safety problem, and I would be complaining a lot too if I see it as a permanent issue or if the phantom breaking issue would affect the AEB system. Fortunately, (1) it is a changing issue with OTAs and (2) anyone who is not comfortable can avoid using the autosteer and wait for future updates to see if their experience improves.

 

[Boye]

The safety problem is imaginary.

If it wasn't just drama queens over-reacting to the normal unexpected braking every such system does, and warns you about in every brands manual then there'd be actual reports of widespread accidents caused by it in Teslas.

There's not though. OTHER brands have had actual safety issues with numerous documented accidents and even recalls over this stuff-(I linked to many of them just a few posts ago)-- Tesla has not.


Interesting only-ever post from an account created today though

Yes it is my first post and yes I created the account today, the past week I have been searching like crazy for info on this and I found this forum.
I am definitely not a Tesla hater, I really wanted a model Y and as I wrote I was so close to place the order.
I am just very surprised and sad to find out about the problems with cruise control, auto high beam and auto wipers. It is not what you expect when you have a 10 years old car where it works flawless.

I do hope that some day they will find a way to make these things work so that I can get a Tesla