Cybertruck is a scam.

[Unclepaul]

Both Tesla and Cybertruck are polarizing. IF you focus only on the negative stuff, you will feel they are terrible.
If you focus on the good stuff, you will feel they are amazing.
Edge groups tend to scream that only their view is correct, and that anyone else with a different opinion is false.

Tesla only needs to sell all their production and make a profit to be considered successful. If some people do not purchase their products, that is only normal and to be expected.

 

[Kurzweil]

YES. To sum up: not a scam; just a bit over-promised (or under-delivered). We will probably get over it. And it MAY improve! (An encouragement for those of us way down the list such as moi.)

 

[ArchHamster]

On the topic of debby downers and negative nancies. Lots of social media today encourages echochambers. While it may feel good being only around people of the same opinion as you, it's important to remember this is like indulging in sweets. It's unhealthy because it limits your tolerance of diverse opinions, polarizes and radicalizes people, and allows a vector for the free propagation of misinformation.

It's too much to expect people to be unbiased. Not because of laziness or a lack of education but because humans are limited to our subjective perspectives. The foundation of critical thinking comes from Socrates and the hegelian dialectic. By listening to people biased on one side of the argument, and then to people biased on the other, the listener reconciles both sides by synthesizing a new position taking positive points from each side to create a new position which transcends both and hopefully arrives somewhere closer to the truth.

I enjoy listening to the pro cybertruck people (cybertruckownersclub leaning more pro) and the anti cybertruck people (people here leaning more anti). If either place became moderated into a complete echochamber. I'd leave. As a concrete example. I really love fsd beta, but that doesn't mean I can't agree with many of jebinc's criticisms of fsd. Infact I agree with many of his takes. As one says, another man's junk is one man's treasure. It is possible to love the cybertruck even if you acknowledge many of its shortcomings. However, if you find yourself unable to even entertain the idea that the cybertruck isn't the best car ever... well then I encourage you to check your sweet diet.

 

[T3SLAROD]

Again, if an ICE Truck comes out with roughly the same specs as offerings that have been out for 3+ years with an interior design that is almost 3 years old it would be laughed at by all.

For 4 years there’s been nothing but talk about “RIP LEGACY TRUCK MAKERS” “TESLA WILL TAKE OVER THE TRUCK MARKET”

And now? “Debbie Downers” and “It’s not a Scam”

Let’s see, from $60k to $120k, no FSD, No AP, No improvement in charging, Not an Off Roader, No 500 miles of range, No more interior space than a Ridgeline, can barely Tow 100 miles….

Before anyone says: “It’s coming” WTH has Tesla been doing the last 4 years? Their selling point AP/FSD wasn’t worked on?

But it’s not a Scam?

We just want better. But yeah “Debbie Downers”

 

[zoomer0056]

Again, if an ICE Truck comes out with roughly the same specs as offerings that have been out for 3+ years with an interior design that is almost 3 years old it would be laughed at by all.

For 4 years there’s been nothing but talk about “RIP LEGACY TRUCK MAKERS” “TESLA WILL TAKE OVER THE TRUCK MARKET”

And now? “Debbie Downers” and “It’s not a Scam”

Let’s see, from $60k to $120k, no FSD, No AP, No improvement in charging, Not an Off Roader, No 500 miles of range, No more interior space than a Ridgeline, can barely Tow 100 miles….

Before anyone says: “It’s coming” WTH has Tesla been doing the last 4 years? Their selling point AP/FSD wasn’t worked on?

But it’s not a Scam?

We just want better. But yeah “Debbie Downers”

 

[T3SLAROD]

 

[kabin]

Tesla only needs to sell all their production and make a profit to be considered successful. If some people do not purchase their products, that is only normal and to be expected.

Depends how we define success. For wall street it's a bit more specific. TSLA has lots of costs wrapped up in factories and material production and that comes to bite during slow downs. And wall street expects growth for the high P/E multiple. But TSLA's growth down dramatically, price per share is high, they are lowering vehicle prices, EV demand is down, and institutional stock ownership is on the low side at 43%. Not a good recipe for investment success. As they say, the past is no indication of future performance.

 

[Suns_PSD]

All this did was show how much a Tesla product if worth. He paid $100k + and the extras are worth $0. $76k is exactly what what a car should lose as it comes off the lot. Carmax saw an $80k starting price.

On top of that, they know how Tesla has played with prices which has taken used EV Market to where it is now…. Worthless. No one wants to buy a used EV because of Elon and his price games that he likes to play.

Carmax lost a LOT of money on Tesla inventory over the last 2 years, so it's my opinion that they are playing it extra safe on their CT wholesale appraisal.

Also, the market is just an unknown at this point, but they aren't in the business of hoping to get over MSRP.

Realistically anyone will be able to buy a new CT at list price in 12 months, and within 24 months Musk will lop 20% off the price. So buyer's beware.

 

[Yelobird]

Carmax lost a LOT of money on Tesla inventory over the last 2 years, so it's my opinion that they are playing it extra safe on their CT wholesale appraisal.

Also, the market is just an unknown at this point, but they aren't in the business of hoping to get over MSRP.

Realistically anyone will be able to buy a new CT at list price in 12 months, and within 24 months Musk will lop 20% off the price. So buyer's beware.

A Lot of assuming there. Good luck with that

 

[kabin]

CT is on tour in a few Chinese cities. Apparently Chinese regs make pickup sales very difficult in China so they don't call it a truck. CNBC's Eunice Yoon says they call it an 'urban traveling wagon.'

 

[mhonig]

Cybertruck is such a scam. Tesla bypassing early reservation holders to see who will pony up an extra $20K ON TOP of a ~50% price increase on all models from reveal. Terrible ~320 mile range that will be like 250 miles in real life and 200 in winter. No spare tire. If you get a spare tire it will take up most of the bed.

"Range Extender" is never coming out and is complete Tesla BS vaporware. That would take up the remaining bed space. Not even a way to connect it in the bed. So a Cybertruck with spare and range extender isn't even a pickup truck anymore. Tesla's idiotic fixed headrest seats that give you neck pain after an hour.

Stupid white interior on a truck. No opening moonroof or rear window are huge misses. No HVAC in the bed as promised. Towing is going to be laughable with that tiny 123 kWh battery. The sales of this truck will tank once Tesla scams all of the "gotta have it now" Tesla fan-bois out of an extra $20K while pissing off the rest of their customers by putting them to the end of the line.

The REAL price of the Cybertruck is dual motor $100K and Tri-motor $120K. Only "Founders Editions" will be made for 2024/2025. The RWD is also vaporware and not coming out for many many many years if at all. Neither is the "$80K AWD" or "$100K Beast".

I received the message from Tesla to design my Cybertruck for Feb - April delivery, but I don't have room for it now that I moved into a condo and only have 2 spaces, which I use for my Model S and Model Y. I don't know if I can assign it to anyone, and it is only for the Foundation Series.

 

[kabin]

CT is on tour in a few Chinese cities. Apparently Chinese regs make pickup sales very difficult in China so they don't call it a truck. CNBC's Eunice Yoon says they call it an 'urban traveling wagon.'

Or maybe a Wagon Urban Traveler (WUT)?

 

[T3SLAROD]

CT is on tour in a few Chinese cities. Apparently Chinese regs make pickup sales very difficult in China so they don't call it a truck. CNBC's Eunice Yoon says they call it an 'urban traveling wagon.'

Sounds appropriate since its a modified Model X

 

[evo9rs]

All this did was show how much a Tesla product if worth. He paid $100k + and the extras are worth $0. $76k is exactly what what a car should lose as it comes off the lot. Carmax saw an $80k starting price.

On top of that, they know how Tesla has played with prices which has taken used EV Market to where it is now…. Worthless. No one wants to buy a used EV because of Elon and his price games that he likes to play.

i disagree especially w/ your 2nd statement. i'd clarify that likely, people with used Teslas are "suffering" because new Tesla prices have driven the used Tesla market down. but keep in mind, you people with used Teslas were sitting on "assets" with rising prices just 2 short years ago when people were going ape for a Model 3 of any kind, as long as it's Right Now.

guess what - something similar will happen with CT.

I also think that the $4k point of sale rebate on used EVs is going to make the sub $25k EV market really fantastic. also, as a used Tesla buyer, I have been a beneficiary of new Tesla pricing driving used Tesla prices downward. I then combined those two, and I have one of my dream cars (with FUSC on top of it), and Elon pays for my commute to the salt mine everyday.

once people figure this out, there will be a lot of used pricing-based EV buyers. possibly because of Tesla responding to competition, and certainly bc of Uncle Sam.

it's one of those rare cases where the poor get richer, in my opinion.

 

[T3SLAROD]

i disagree especially w/ your 2nd statement. i'd clarify that likely, people with used Teslas are "suffering" because new Tesla prices have driven the used Tesla market down. but keep in mind, you people with used Teslas were sitting on "assets" with rising prices just 2 short years ago when people were going ape for a Model 3 of any kind, as long as it's Right Now.

guess what - something similar will happen with CT.

I also think that the $4k point of sale rebate on used EVs is going to make the sub $25k EV market really fantastic. also, as a used Tesla buyer, I have been a beneficiary of new Tesla pricing driving used Tesla prices downward. I then combined those two, and I have one of my dream cars (with FUSC on top of it), and Elon pays for my commute to the salt mine everyday.

once people figure this out, there will be a lot of used pricing-based EV buyers. possibly because of Tesla responding to competition, and certainly bc of Uncle Sam.

it's one of those rare cases where the poor get richer, in my opinion.

Sure, you can go buy a Used Tesla or any EV for that matter and get you $4k POS rebate...... guess what, your is now worth $10k less, so you paid $25k and now its worth $15k ($6k regular depreciation plus $4k rebate) no warranty, and no software support. Sure you'll get updated Fart sounds, but real software support? Not a chance. Good luck.

The fact is a used ICE is worth more than a used EV until gas prices start going up.

 

[HitchHiker71]

i disagree especially w/ your 2nd statement. i'd clarify that likely, people with used Teslas are "suffering" because new Tesla prices have driven the used Tesla market down. but keep in mind, you people with used Teslas were sitting on "assets" with rising prices just 2 short years ago when people were going ape for a Model 3 of any kind, as long as it's Right Now.

To be fair - what you're pointing out here had nothing to do with Tesla - every new and used car price skyrocketed during the pandemic due to supply chain issues. What hasn't happened subsequently is used car pricing dropping through the floor for other brands outside of Tesla near to the extent that Tesla used car prices have dropped through the floor - and this almost entirely attributed to the fact that Tesla has devalued their new vehicle prices which directly pushes down used vehicle prices - just ask anyone who bought a Plaid vehicle two years ago vs today. Other new cars utilize manufacturer incentives to help drive sales volume and clear out inventory when needed, rather than decreasing the overall price of the vehicle itself. While taking the incentive approach does produce some downward pressure on used car pricing - it's not nearly as impactful as directly decreasing the price of such an expensive purchase directly. All Tesla is doing by decreasing prices is borrowing from future demand long term - which may prove to be a mistake long term.

The primary reason that Walmart has consistently done so well over the long term is that they literally never have sales prices. The have price rollbacks - but that's a permanent price decrease on an item. Other retailers suffer from the basic problem that, to get people in the door, they must spend marketing dollars for "sale prices" to increase floor traffic. This is the same reason Costco and other big box stores do so well - just offer lower pricing consistently across all items and get consistently high floor traffic without having to ever offer "sale prices" for anything.

Similarly - by persistently driving down Tesla new vehicle prices - people will increasingly adopt the attitude to forgo a new Tesla purchase now and just wait until the price declines in the future for the same vehicle - or just buy a much cheaper used Tesla instead. This is why deflation is so dangerous - it actually encourages people not to buy something today that will cost them less six months from now if/when they actually want or need it.

 

[T3SLAROD]

These CT's are now being delivered without Hub Caps and damage that the service center say they will fix.......

Can you imagine any car $100k + being delivered with missing parts?

https://www.cybertruckownersclub.com/forum/threads/delivered-reservation-to-delivery-timeline-ca.11876/

https://www.cybertruckownersclub.com/forum/threads/cybertruck-delivered-and-settled-in-for-the-night.11869/page-2#post-237363

Give a thumbs down all you'd like or go read the thread and open your eyes. Again, Im just posting what's out there. If you fail to see the reality it's all on you.

 

[discodanman45]

Can you imagine any car $100k + being delivered with missing parts?

Doesn't bother me. I will take delivery with or without them and will be extremely happy. 4 years of waiting and some missing hub caps is not big deal to me or anyone else that is taking delivery. It seems to be an issue for the people who didn't get invites or were priced out of the vehicle.

 

[evo9rs]

interestingly, the 4k EV rebate hasn't had the effect on pricing that I would have expected, which is to increase the price of used EVs. at least, not yet. as a result, a $4k point of sale rebate is not resulting in a $10k loss of value (that math isn't adding up anyway, please re-explain). what is likely happening is dealers must price the car in accordance with market price, because not everyone can or will take the $4k point of sale rebate. they aren't able to price it in such a way that anticipates a used EV point of sale credit. so that means if I sell this particular car, i'm already at the bottom of the depreciation curve, I think i'll be able to sell it for just a few K less than what I bought it for.

I hate to point out the obvious, but if anyone lost $10k in value it was probably due to overpaying for the car by purchasing during a hype cycle. for some, that's when it was brand new and people were losing their minds and acting irrationally, such as the earliest years of the model 3. heck, Elon himself pointed out that the price of these Teslas would drop as the run rate increased, as well as in response to competition, or as a result of a loss of tax credits. so, I think these hype cycle buyers were not cross shopping ICE cars or other EV brands, but primarily fulfilling the #1 need which was a Tesla, NOW. also, Tesla was lauded for having in-housed the production of certain components that other manufacturers had not, which gave them a competitive advantage during that time. in some ways, the hype surrounding the brand at that time was actually rational.

if any of this sounds familiar, then consider if the same thing will happen (or is currently happening) with CT.

I remain enthusiastic about Teslas but I was never going to pay their new / retail price. alas, I was without a Tesla for many years. but getting one at 1/5th of the original cost, with free electricity courtesy of Elon and Co, feels pretty good. I think of it as saving up for future maintenance expenses, which would happen even with a car purchased new. except, again, my starting point is at 14% of original cost. car runs great, it's a fast good looking commuter with a lot of space for my construction activities, and I usually work out while the car is plugged in and harvesting free electricity at a supercharger. I'm more than fine with no more software updates for this car.

I'd like to thank Tesla for increasing their supply, and Uncle Sam for incentivizing EV adoption.

a rare case of the poor getting richer.

 

[T3SLAROD]

Doesn't bother me. I will take delivery with or without them and will be extremely happy. 4 years of waiting and some missing hub caps is not big deal to me or anyone else that is taking delivery. It seems to be an issue for the people who didn't get invites or were priced out of the vehicle.

Exhibit A

No hubcaps, No FSD, No Lockers, No AP, Dings on the body, Screens going out= "Doesn't bother me"

Elon: "See, what did I tell you. They'll buy anything"