lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
Those that are incapable of properly understanding the nag cycle need the nag cycle.
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Dangly weight tied to steering wheel to fool autopilot that you're paying attention?
- Thread starter ratsbew
- Start date
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- Autopilot darwin award Model S
hybridbear
Active Member
There is. My Service Center pushed for Tesla HQ to put my car back on 7.1. They could have pushed 7.1 back to my car as an OTA update, just like how 8.0 came. Ultimately, Tesla HQ refused to do that.
Exactly! This is why I believe that Tesla should instruct new owners on the proper use of Autosteer during the orientation process. The Service Center spent an hour with me going through stuff I already knew about how to configure driver profiles, etc, but ZERO time discussing the limitations and strengths of Autosteer and how to use it. Teaching owners the correct use of the system would be more beneficial than nags every 15 seconds.
I sort of hate to post this for fear of countermeasures being developed, but *whoa* what a different experience it is to be able to drive for 30+ minutes at a time without a single nag. Basically never having to look down at the dash, except to set your initial speed. You look at the road and other cars like you're supposed to. 1lb is likely more heavy than necessary though. Looking for some 0.5lbs wrist weights..
Maybe instead of nags they should fix things that are actually dangerous, like the lane biasing that doesn't work, or the tendency for 8.0 to brake way too late into the *soil your underpants* zone on the highway.
Maybe instead of nags they should fix things that are actually dangerous, like the lane biasing that doesn't work, or the tendency for 8.0 to brake way too late into the *soil your underpants* zone on the highway.
I can confirm that a Service Center will not upgrade your software from 7.1 -> 8.0 when you take your car in for service if:
1. You explicitly tell the service advisor not to upgrade any software, and
2. You tape notes on both sides of the 17 in monitor AND the center of the steering wheel that say "DO NOT UPDATE SOFTWARE"
I had my car in for it's (extra cost) annual service and got my car back with 7.1 software still intact. I really appreciate Tesla customer service for honoring my request, despite the mother ship trying to force 8.0 on us.
I'll be sticking with 7.1 to avoid the AP nags as long as I can.
1. You explicitly tell the service advisor not to upgrade any software, and
2. You tape notes on both sides of the 17 in monitor AND the center of the steering wheel that say "DO NOT UPDATE SOFTWARE"
I had my car in for it's (extra cost) annual service and got my car back with 7.1 software still intact. I really appreciate Tesla customer service for honoring my request, despite the mother ship trying to force 8.0 on us.
I'll be sticking with 7.1 to avoid the AP nags as long as I can.
Scannerman
Member
Maybe you could also lock the seat belt behind you to eliminate warnings, and be even more comfortable.
Or you could assume, that these requiremnets are in your best interest.
Scannerman
For the 100th time, no. It's in Tesla's best interest, not the driver's.
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
Some people require nagging to perform correctly.
Others do not.
We should learn to accept on another instead of attacking solely based on different personal needs.
We have nags because we did not behave without them. At least we were originally trusted without nags.
Others do not.
We should learn to accept on another instead of attacking solely based on different personal needs.
We have nags because we did not behave without them. At least we were originally trusted without nags.
I get nags all the time despite holding the wheel continuously. The issue is not "did you buckle your seat belt properly?, but how do you stop the annoying alerts that occur intermittently despite having the seat belt properly buckled around you? I think if there were some sort of bio-sensors built into the steering wheel that would positively identify that you are holding it (but that wouldn't work with gloves), or something showing if you are properly watching the road, (probably complicated and expensive), but having done almost 24 hours of driving almost all in AP over the past weekend, I can tell you that it is very annoying and uncomfortable to have to hold resistance against the wheel the entire time, not just holding the wheel, as that isn't enough, you have to hold against the torque actively or you'll get the nags and nearly have the autosteer disabled.
Another solution would be if other inputs would qualify--using the turn signal, changing cruise control speed, etc. Things that demonstrate active involvement and awareness of the driving skills.
What if you had to step on the gas pedal a bit constantly to use cruise control?
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Exactly. The fact that other inputs to the car don't count as "I'm paying attention" is just dumb.
green1
Active Member
I'm shocked that nobody else seems to be concerned with the property rights argument here.
When we allow companies to remove functionality after the sale, where's the limit? What did I actually buy? how can I enjoy my ownership experience if I'm constantly dreading what feature Tesla will remove next?
If we say it's ok to add nags, and limit the max speed of auto-steer, what's next? We'd be hypocritical to say that's ok, but that it's not ok if they limited all driving to the perceived speed limit at all times, or blacked out the 17" screen when moving, or thousands of other limitations.
In fact, if that's the case, we're arguing that we don't own any part of what was sold to us. They could turn it in to a brick in our driveway that can't move at all or even unlock the doors and we'd say "that's ok, it's safer that way!"
I bought a vehicle with a certain feature set. And I will NOT accept any less than what was delivered.
When we allow companies to remove functionality after the sale, where's the limit? What did I actually buy? how can I enjoy my ownership experience if I'm constantly dreading what feature Tesla will remove next?
If we say it's ok to add nags, and limit the max speed of auto-steer, what's next? We'd be hypocritical to say that's ok, but that it's not ok if they limited all driving to the perceived speed limit at all times, or blacked out the 17" screen when moving, or thousands of other limitations.
In fact, if that's the case, we're arguing that we don't own any part of what was sold to us. They could turn it in to a brick in our driveway that can't move at all or even unlock the doors and we'd say "that's ok, it's safer that way!"
I bought a vehicle with a certain feature set. And I will NOT accept any less than what was delivered.
larmor
Active Member
Not sure where all the venom and surprise is coming from here. I just drove 260 miles, 220 on AP with one nag. The 'burden' to keep your hands on the wheel is so minimal but yet effective, since your hands are at the ready to take over. I'm cool with AP as it is now. At least till some other car manufacturer comes out with totally autonomous car.
Also, as for manufacturers removing features, what about a food product or drug that is later found out to have a deleterious side effect? Agreed the drug may work really well, but the safety profile, not previously known is now better known... Demand the old drug back?
Also, as for manufacturers removing features, what about a food product or drug that is later found out to have a deleterious side effect? Agreed the drug may work really well, but the safety profile, not previously known is now better known... Demand the old drug back?
One of the most surprising realizations I have discovered on this forum is how straight laced Tesla owners are.
Didn't realize the percentage of goodie goods on here.
Didn't realize the percentage of goodie goods on here.
Didn't realize the percentage of evil evilies on here.
People willing to not only risk their own lives, and those of their families, and strangers who had never tendered them any insult, but also risk the reputation of the only car company really working to bring about the EV revolution vital to saving the planet from a climate catastrophe unseen for millennia, all for the most microscopic of conveniences.
Astounding really.
Thank you kindly.
People willing to not only risk their own lives, and those of their families, and strangers who had never tendered them any insult, but also risk the reputation of the only car company really working to bring about the EV revolution vital to saving the planet from a climate catastrophe unseen for millennia, all for the most microscopic of conveniences.
Astounding really.
Thank you kindly.
green1
Active Member
In all of those examples, a recognized governmetnt agency works with the vendor for a VOLUNTARY recall. In no case do they ever force you to return something you already purchased, and in every case they offer to compensate you the full purchase price if you do.
When Tesla does the same, I'll accept it. But until it's requested by a recognized government agency (in public, not some super secret agreement with the manufacturer that nobody can prove they even made) and Tesla offers to re-imburse the full purchase price, and the agreement is completely voluntary, I will continue to criticize them for doing something that would be completely unacceptable in any other situation, and remains so in this one.
green1
Active Member
You first. NHTSA has never stated their opinion, they have not arranged a formal recall, and even if they had, it would be 100% voluntary. Additionally, NHTSA doesn't even have any jurisdiction where I live. So in short, I don't care what they say.
I bought a car with a certain feature set. NOBODY that is not a recognized government authority in my jurisdiction has any authority to remove any of the features that the car came with. That emphatically includes Tesla.
NHTSA's opinion shouldn't matter unless they're willing to impose new federal regulations through a public process.
As a pilot and aircraft owner, I'd like to contrast NHTSA's supposed "behind the scenes pressure on Tesla" to implement nags with the way that the FAA imposes new Federal Aviation Regulations governing how airplanes are designed, operated and maintained. First the FAA has to publish a proposed regulation in the Federal Register, justifying their proposed new regulation on safety and economic grounds. Second, there's a mandatory comment period for pilots, vendors, and affected parties to respond. Third, the FAA has to respond in writing to these comments. More often than not, the FAA either backs off or modifies the regulation based on industry and user input. It's an open process that invites debate and application of facts -- a process that has led to reduced aircraft accidents and fatalities without decreasing the utility of transport by air.
Despite NHTSA being another federal government agency that by law has to use the same process for cars, this never happened with Tesla's Autopilot. If there is really a major safety issue, then let NHTSA go through the public process of creating new federal regulations to govern "auto-steering" cars.
Tesla on its own accord has removed a demonstrated capability from our cars without being forced to by the government. We no longer have what was sold to us. (Go back and look at Tesla's original hands-free auto-steering demo videos.) Therefore Tesla owes us a refund or buyback, or should restore Autopilot to what was originally promised (and delivered with Version 7).
As a pilot and aircraft owner, I'd like to contrast NHTSA's supposed "behind the scenes pressure on Tesla" to implement nags with the way that the FAA imposes new Federal Aviation Regulations governing how airplanes are designed, operated and maintained. First the FAA has to publish a proposed regulation in the Federal Register, justifying their proposed new regulation on safety and economic grounds. Second, there's a mandatory comment period for pilots, vendors, and affected parties to respond. Third, the FAA has to respond in writing to these comments. More often than not, the FAA either backs off or modifies the regulation based on industry and user input. It's an open process that invites debate and application of facts -- a process that has led to reduced aircraft accidents and fatalities without decreasing the utility of transport by air.
Despite NHTSA being another federal government agency that by law has to use the same process for cars, this never happened with Tesla's Autopilot. If there is really a major safety issue, then let NHTSA go through the public process of creating new federal regulations to govern "auto-steering" cars.
Tesla on its own accord has removed a demonstrated capability from our cars without being forced to by the government. We no longer have what was sold to us. (Go back and look at Tesla's original hands-free auto-steering demo videos.) Therefore Tesla owes us a refund or buyback, or should restore Autopilot to what was originally promised (and delivered with Version 7).
