Dangly weight tied to steering wheel to fool autopilot that you're paying attention?

[green1]

Zero nags. I put it at the far 9 o clock position (where gravity gives it the most leverage to put torque on the wheel).

Now we just need to add a brick on the pedal to override the other limitation that Tesla added and we can get the car back to what Tesla sold us in the first place... Or, we can take a stand that it is NOT ok for a company to steal functionality from a car after delivery.

 

[efusco]

Now we just need to add a brick on the pedal to override the other limitation that Tesla added and we can get the car back to what Tesla sold us in the first place... Or, we can take a stand that it is NOT ok for a company to steal functionality from a car after delivery.

Can you sincerely not see the bigger picture here? Personally, I would prefer it didn't have the nag. I always keep my hand on the wheel, but I prefer to rest it at the bottom of the wheel so my arm doesn't fatigue--but that's not enough torque resistance to avoid the nag. I've modified my arm/hand position so I can mostly avoid it now. So, to that end we agree, the nag is annoying and it would be nice to be able to turn it off.

But step back a bit and look at the bigger picture. This is brave new territory and there are fear mongers out there that are looking to blame technology and to sue Tesla if someone dies while using AP, if they can make a case that because there's no nag that it lulled the driver into a false sense of safety then the tech failed that it is Tesla's fault--costing this fledgling company money. Further, if the NHTSA looks at this new tech and thinks Tesla isn't doing enough in the form of safety feedback, they could be fined or forced to disable the tech altogether.

Tesla isn't 'stealing' anything, they're adapting to social and political requirements (albeit maybe not good requirements) for the sake of preserving the functionality at all, the well being of the company, and maybe even the safety of those to drive and ride in the vehicles.

 

[green1]

I definitely see the bigger picture.
We are telling every company out there that they don't have to follow their own promises or their own advertising, and that they continue to own our products even after they're sold. That they can do ANYTHING they want to the product after they've been paid for it and there's nothing that any customer will do about it.

We're allowing companies to retroactively change any deal they make with us.

THAT is the "big picture" here.

They're STEALING functionality from our cars after sale. Something that nobody ever would have tolerated a few years ago, but is now so normal that people not only aren't outraged by it, but actually dare to defend the thieves themselves.

 

[Max*]

Now now, let's tone it down a bit.

They aren't stealing anything. You are not forced to do software updates. If you want v7.1 or v8.0, you also get nags with it. If you don't, you can keep your car as is (as long as you never need service, etc.). They might be tilting the favor in their direction a lot, but no is stealing it, or forcing you to turn off functionality.

If Tesla pushed a release to actually force nags on to you, like they did by forcing people in (China? Australia? I forget) to disable AP due to government regulations, that would be different.


“Those who give up liberty for security deserve neither.” seems to be green1's "larger picture" viewpoint, and the Tesla defenders larger picture viewpoint is "it's not such a big deal, just keep innovating"

 

[GTIceman]

Just to weigh in, when you purchased an AP car and activated AP I believe the disclaimer has always been in place that indicates it is in BETA and some features may be added, removed, or changed at any point in time. Click-wrap is treated as a contract and fully enforceable if you accept the terms and use the system.

 

[u00mem9]

Now now, let's tone it down a bit.

They aren't stealing anything. You are not forced to do software updates. If you want v7.1 or v8.0, you also get nags with it. If you don't, you can keep your car as is (as long as you never need service, etc.). They might be tilting the favor in their direction a lot, but no is stealing it, or forcing you to turn off functionality.

If Tesla pushed a release to actually force nags on to you, like they did by forcing people in (China? Australia? I forget) to disable AP due to government regulations, that would be different.


“Those who give up liberty for security deserve neither.” seems to be green1's "larger picture" viewpoint, and the Tesla defenders larger picture viewpoint is "it's not such a big deal, just keep innovating"

Ok, let people backdate to 7.0 or 7.1, and we'll see if you are right.

Many people would admit that v8.0 sucks if it didn't also mean they have to admit they made a mistake updating.

 

[Max*]

Ok, let people backdate to 7.0 or 7.1, and we'll see if you are right.

Many people would admit that v8.0 sucks if it didn't also mean they have to admit they made a mistake updating.

Why should Tesla let people backdate to a different firmware? I said they're tilting it in their favor, but they're not stealing.

I complained about a handful of things in 8.0, most were fixed within a few weeks. I have no further major complaints in terms of UI/functionality. And AP is about the same, might be slightly better in places, worse in others.

 

[green1]

Now now, let's tone it down a bit.

They aren't stealing anything. You are not forced to do software updates. If you want v7.1 or v8.0, you also get nags with it. If you don't, you can keep your car as is (as long as you never need service, etc.). They might be tilting the favor in their direction a lot, but no is stealing it, or forcing you to turn off functionality.

If Tesla pushed a release to actually force nags on to you, like they did by forcing people in (China? Australia? I forget) to disable AP due to government regulations, that would be different.


“Those who give up liberty for security deserve neither.” seems to be green1's "larger picture" viewpoint, and the Tesla defenders larger picture viewpoint is "it's not such a big deal, just keep innovating"

Ok, by your definition they didn't steal the AP functionality. They instead stole voice recognition and mapping ability. (those don't work on 7.0 any more) and I am willing to bet that within the next 6 months they also steal supercharging ability if you don't move to 8.0 (I bet the new supercharging model they talk about requires new car firmware for authentication)

I'd happily leave my car on older firmware and not complain about what they do in the newer stuff *IF* they didn't constantly remove functionality in the older firmware and tie it's return to accepting the reduction of other functionality in newer firmware.

So they ARE forcing you to lose functionality, you just get to chose which functionality you lose. Is a thief no longer a thief if they let you chose between taking your wallet or your phone?

 

[hybridbear]

Zero nags. I put it at the far 9 o clock position (where gravity gives it the most leverage to put torque on the wheel).

I have been using the 3 o'clock position. I might try 9 to see if the results are any different.

 

[Max*]

We have differing viewpoints on this, which is fine. I'm not trying to convince you of anything.

With that being said, I can play devils advocate and say no, they're still not stealing. They're just not supporting older firmware. If you know, for a fact, that they intentionally made the maps and voice recognition not work on 7.1/8.0 etc., then that's one thing. Instead, if they decided not to put in time and effort to make it backwards compatible (which may or may not be the best software practice), then I see nothing wrong with it.

I said it upthread, and I'll say it again. They're tilting the balance in their favor. I can add heavily, if you like. But no one is forcing you to update and no one is forcing you to stay on 7.0.

 

[number12]

I wish I could get the door fixes without entirety of 8.0. I'm happy with 7.1 and so not want a less media player and less AP. I really don't get it. What's the benefit other than door "fixes" in 8.0.

AP seems to be 50/50 Better or worse for people and 50/50 more nags

 

[green1]

We have differing viewpoints on this, which is fine. I'm not trying to convince you of anything.

With that being said, I can play devils advocate and say no, they're still not stealing. They're just not supporting older firmware. If you know, for a fact, that they intentionally made the maps and voice recognition not work on 7.1/8.0 etc., then that's one thing. Instead, if they decided not to put in time and effort to make it backwards compatible (which may or may not be the best software practice), then I see nothing wrong with it.

I said it upthread, and I'll say it again. They're tilting the balance in their favor. I can add heavily, if you like. But no one is forcing you to update and no one is forcing you to stay on 7.0.

If you are ok with the fact that you have every downside to owning the vehicle, with none of the upsides. That Tesla has more ownership of your vehicle than you do, and that every whim of theirs is your command, then there's nothing more I can say.

If you believe that you actually own any product in your life though, then what you are arguing is against the whole concept or property ownership.

Just how much functionality are you ok with them removing?

What if next they decide to blank the 17" screen when the car is moving to avoid distraction? maybe mute the audio too? how about if they also set the maximum possible speed the car can go to the speed limit under all circumstances? Disallow charging at non-Tesla branded chargers just in case they're not safe?
Every one of those has exactly the same rationale behind it as adding nags and setting arbitrary limits as to what speed you can engage autosteer on certain roadways.

Sure, maybe they'll never do any of those, but if you're ok with what they've done before, you have to be ok with every one of those as well. After all, it's THEIR car.

 

[number12]

If you are ok with the fact that you have every downside to owning the vehicle, with none of the upsides. That Tesla has more ownership of your vehicle than you do, and that every whim of theirs is your command, then there's nothing more I can say.

If you believe that you actually own any product in your life though, then what you are arguing is against the whole concept or property ownership.

Just how much functionality are you ok with them removing?

What if next they decide to blank the 17" screen when the car is moving to avoid distraction? maybe mute the audio too? how about if they also set the maximum possible speed the car can go to the speed limit under all circumstances? Disallow charging at non-Tesla branded chargers just in case they're not safe?
Every one of those has exactly the same rationale behind it as adding nags and setting arbitrary limits as to what speed you can engage autosteer on certain roadways.

Sure, maybe they'll never do any of those, but if you're ok with what they've done before, you have to be ok with every one of those as well. After all, it's THEIR car.

What do you think you are missing out from latest firmware (pros AP, cons ...UI?)?

I am on 7.1 and am wondering if during my service 11/30 they will force an update.

 

[green1]

What do you think you are missing out from latest firmware (pros AP, cons ...UI?)?

I am on 7.1 and am wondering if during my service 11/30 they will force an update.

Nothing yet, but in less than 6 months I bet supercharging will depend on newer firmware to implement their new system.

You see, I don't want new features (though I wouldn't mind if they delivered some of the features they actually promised in AP1.0, but that's actually secondary) But I DO want to keep ALL the features that were delivered with the vehicle. They have no right to remove functionality after purchase.

 

[hybridbear]

What do you think you are missing out from latest firmware (pros AP, cons ...UI?)?

I am on 7.1 and am wondering if during my service 11/30 they will force an update.

AP is significantly worse with 8.0. It is unsafe going through curves on the freeway and the constant nags distract the driver from paying attention to the road. The UI is also much worse, particularly for USB. Your tracks no longer play in the correct order inside their folders.

I strongly suggest putting a post-it note on your 17-inch screen saying "Please do not install software updates". I'd also send the request via e-mail to your Service Advisor and ask him/her to confirm that they won't install 8.0. My Service Center was willing to not install 8.0, and it was only installed in my car by accident. I should've put a post-it note on my dash... My Service Advisor did mention that some part replacements may require the installation of 8.0 to make the parts work. But if you aren't having any electronic parts replaced in your service visit, then they shouldn't have any legitimate reason to install 8.0.

 

[u00mem9]

AP is significantly worse with 8.0. It is unsafe going through curves on the freeway and the constant nags distract the driver from paying attention to the road. The UI is also much worse, particularly for USB. Your tracks no longer play in the correct order inside their folders.

I strongly suggest putting a post-it note on your 17-inch screen saying "Please do not install software updates". I'd also send the request via e-mail to your Service Advisor and ask him/her to confirm that they won't install 8.0. My Service Center was willing to not install 8.0, and it was only installed in my car by accident. I should've put a post-it note on my dash... My Service Advisor did mention that some part replacements may require the installation of 8.0 to make the parts work. But if you aren't having any electronic parts replaced in your service visit, then they shouldn't have any legitimate reason to install 8.0.

That is a tragic story. I'm impressed you are dealing with it this well.

 

[number12]

AP is significantly worse with 8.0. It is unsafe going through curves on the freeway and the constant nags distract the driver from paying attention to the road. The UI is also much worse, particularly for USB. Your tracks no longer play in the correct order inside their folders.

I strongly suggest putting a post-it note on your 17-inch screen saying "Please do not install software updates". I'd also send the request via e-mail to your Service Advisor and ask him/her to confirm that they won't install 8.0. My Service Center was willing to not install 8.0, and it was only installed in my car by accident. I should've put a post-it note on my dash... My Service Advisor did mention that some part replacements may require the installation of 8.0 to make the parts work. But if you aren't having any electronic parts replaced in your service visit, then they shouldn't have any legitimate reason to install 8.0.

There has to be a way to go back.. no matter what they say. Some documentation I guess would help, but thats an interesting case. I was just thinking they would "accidentally" do it - if it makes their job any easier.

Wonder if nags will ever go away... which do not bother me as much as the stories of AP getting worse. Mine is rock solid with 1 slight nag in a 15 min commute on a newish road.

 

[Drone Flyer]

Seriously? The reason it has you put your hands on the wheel is because it doesn't know where to steer. If you hang something on the wheel, you'll just cause the car to leave the road and crash.

It doesn't nag you for nagging's sake. It needs to know where to steer the car.

Actually, not quite correct. The auto steer function in Autopilot will steer the car as long as there are lines on the road!
However, this has got to go down as the dumbest ever posting on TMC! Anyone who tries this needs to go and have his "batteries" recharged!

 

[Garlan Garner]

Actually, not quite correct. The auto steer function in Autopilot will steer the car as long as there are lines on the road!
However, this has got to go down as the dumbest ever posting on TMC! Anyone who tries this needs to go and have his "batteries" recharged!

I feel the same way. This idea is not smart at all.

 

[immolated]

Seriously? The reason it has you put your hands on the wheel is because it doesn't know where to steer. If you hang something on the wheel, you'll just cause the car to leave the road and crash.

It doesn't nag you for nagging's sake. It needs to know where to steer the car.

You are very wrong. It does indeed nag you only for nagging's sake. Just poke the steering wheel in a random direction next time you get a nag, and it goes away. Or lay your hand on it and provide no input. Lay a water bottle on one of the 3-9 bars and watch the car drive itself just fine for 200 miles.

All it's doing is making sure you're paying attention every few minutes, as a result of recent bad AP press. A step in the wrong direction.

If it ACTUALLY needs you to steer it, it will sound the alert and show red hands on the wheel in the dash, telling you to immediately take control (i.e. you're going onto a dirt road with no markings), or a steep >90* turn.