And that, of course, is pretty much what Eds claimed (although he of course went further and put a number to the progress).
Eds never claimed design changes would mean changing the style, but fixing issues with parts design.
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Delay in model X launch?
- Thread starter Eds
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- Model X model x launch
And that, of course, is pretty much what Eds claimed (although he of course went further and put a number to the progress).
Eds never claimed design changes would mean changing the style, but fixing issues with parts design.
Cueonly
Member
So did Tesla request the redacting, or was it at the OP's request? Seems to me that Paul can't make up his mind!!! I'm not as interested in the bickering about the context of the original statements, or the following and lengthy defense of them by AR. Just would like to know the reasoning behind the redacting.
Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
NigelM
Recovering Member
We should give Paul a break on this. Mods are just the workhorses on stuff like this with several parties wanting what they want for whatever reason; it's almost impossible to get everything perfect out of the box when you have several taskmasters and every single post has to be changed and edited individually.
Folks can hypothesize about the exact motivations to post in the first place and/or to request deletions later, but the truth is we'll never know exact reasoning nor do we have any rights to know (this is just a free forum after all). As curious as any of us may be, this isn't Watergate (as I said earlier) and the sooner we get to put it behind us the less frustrated any of us will feel.
Perhaps oddly enough, I'm not joining the choir for moderator's reasoning. I'm fine with letting that be as it is. Of course I'm also fine about hearing the reasons if parties want to post.
But some mutual understanding would be welcome to me, so one more attempt at rectifying misunderstanding:
No, that is not what I'm saying. You can see my signature and my own positive experiences - which remain. I am very happy with my P85, an experience which has been flawless minus some cold weather realted niggles, all that I wrote a year ago here remains true. Overall I am happy with Tesla the company, too, as far as personal experiences go.
But one can't - and shouldn't - extrapolate from such personal experiences (or for other similarly subjective reasons) that negative posters are automatically wrong - and in my view that happens more often here than the opposite does. Questioning/doubting a positive Tesla poster being wrong rarely happens, nor does a poster about negative competition issues receive similar treatment as a negative Tesla related poster.
I get it that you disagree, acknowledged. It was my opinion in response to AnOutsider, who seemed to be of similar mind as myself. In fact, while I'd certainly go on and say AnOutsider and myself have had our disagreements, AnOutsider - to me - is verification that my opinion is not that hard or unreasonable to understand, even from a TMC perspective. Which I appreciate a lot.
Because I am also of the opinion that the tone and undercurrent of the entire forum is hugely set by its most senior and active members - and to me, AnOutsider has been a very refreshing voice amidst it all. If more people showed AnOutsider's balance, I wouldn't have anything to say (beyond some brief rumor analysis and occasional mule Photoshop of course). And AnOutsider definitely doesn't agree with me about everything either.
One reason why these threads drag on is that time and time again we (as a community) fail to understand each other and it seems to either get personal or we exaggerate each others words or ignore so much stuff that we talk past each other. I'm sure it happens on my end as well. Many controversial threads would die out much quicker with more precise mapping of agreements and disagreements because all that re-explaining amongst active members wouldn't be necessary. Other threads, of course, they may die when the people receiving the rough treatment give up and maybe just leave the community, but that is unforunate every time it happens.
I have no problem with disagreement. What does suck is when people are misheard and are unwilling to go the extra mile to make it (the mutual understanding) right on both ends. Just my opinion of course, which I have explaned to you many times and still it seems to me thread and again you respond to me in a way that just doesn't reflect what I'm saying at all. That's how it seems to me anyway. Not that any of this is uncommon over any written medium, or even in person, but still is unfortunate.
Luckily Model X will launch soon enough and we can put all the pre-release talk to rest, no matter what is one's opinion of it.
To kind of illustrate this, I'll answer to Merrill:
I disagree. That is the richness, not a shame! Hearing it only from Tesla would not be in the interests of an independent user community IMO. I am happy that TMC attracts such contributions from outside the official corporate channel.
I'll just close with this quote from AnOutsider. I don't think it is too much to ask:
But some mutual understanding would be welcome to me, so one more attempt at rectifying misunderstanding:
No, that is not what I'm saying. You can see my signature and my own positive experiences - which remain. I am very happy with my P85, an experience which has been flawless minus some cold weather realted niggles, all that I wrote a year ago here remains true. Overall I am happy with Tesla the company, too, as far as personal experiences go.
But one can't - and shouldn't - extrapolate from such personal experiences (or for other similarly subjective reasons) that negative posters are automatically wrong - and in my view that happens more often here than the opposite does. Questioning/doubting a positive Tesla poster being wrong rarely happens, nor does a poster about negative competition issues receive similar treatment as a negative Tesla related poster.
I get it that you disagree, acknowledged. It was my opinion in response to AnOutsider, who seemed to be of similar mind as myself. In fact, while I'd certainly go on and say AnOutsider and myself have had our disagreements, AnOutsider - to me - is verification that my opinion is not that hard or unreasonable to understand, even from a TMC perspective. Which I appreciate a lot.
Because I am also of the opinion that the tone and undercurrent of the entire forum is hugely set by its most senior and active members - and to me, AnOutsider has been a very refreshing voice amidst it all. If more people showed AnOutsider's balance, I wouldn't have anything to say (beyond some brief rumor analysis and occasional mule Photoshop of course). And AnOutsider definitely doesn't agree with me about everything either.
One reason why these threads drag on is that time and time again we (as a community) fail to understand each other and it seems to either get personal or we exaggerate each others words or ignore so much stuff that we talk past each other. I'm sure it happens on my end as well. Many controversial threads would die out much quicker with more precise mapping of agreements and disagreements because all that re-explaining amongst active members wouldn't be necessary. Other threads, of course, they may die when the people receiving the rough treatment give up and maybe just leave the community, but that is unforunate every time it happens.
I have no problem with disagreement. What does suck is when people are misheard and are unwilling to go the extra mile to make it (the mutual understanding) right on both ends. Just my opinion of course, which I have explaned to you many times and still it seems to me thread and again you respond to me in a way that just doesn't reflect what I'm saying at all. That's how it seems to me anyway. Not that any of this is uncommon over any written medium, or even in person, but still is unfortunate.
Luckily Model X will launch soon enough and we can put all the pre-release talk to rest, no matter what is one's opinion of it.
To kind of illustrate this, I'll answer to Merrill:
I disagree. That is the richness, not a shame! Hearing it only from Tesla would not be in the interests of an independent user community IMO. I am happy that TMC attracts such contributions from outside the official corporate channel.
I'll just close with this quote from AnOutsider. I don't think it is too much to ask:
NigelM
Recovering Member
Short article, but really good read...
Forbes: Tesla's Model X Launch Struggles Are Routine Stuff For Big Automakers
Forbes: Tesla's Model X Launch Struggles Are Routine Stuff For Big Automakers
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
Merrill
Merrill
Again you take everything out of context, what I meant is that all this speculation in the end means nothing because reality will be in what Tesla delivers. If you like to examine everything down to the nats ---, then you are able to but frankly it gets old.
I need a gif of someone kicking a dead horse!
100 deliveries q4, 1000.... 10000...
The difference to nearly everyone here is nothing. If I see my X this year I will be very happy. If I don't, I will be eagerly waiting a few weeks longer.
Fair enough, I'll certainly take your word for it that you only meant Eds' information means nothing to you, because only what Tesla delivers matters. I have no desire to misrepresent you - and find it unfortunate if/when the reverse happens with anyone.
CmdrThor
Active Member
The difference is huge to me. I would very much like to get my Model X before Christmas for holiday traveling. It will make the difference of whether we can bring our dogs with us when we visit family or have to leave them at home and get a pet sitter. The space to travel with our dogs in our current vehicle is something we lost when our new baby arrived and one of the main reasons why we want the X and not the S.
ludicrousspeed
Member
What is everybody expecting in terms of revealing the final model and any surprise features? The reporter who asked about the configuration date on the CC also threw in a question about how it will be finally revealed, but Musk seemed to dodge that part of the question. I think it'd be really neat to have an event to show off the final model (along with all the features), maybe with some videos showing off the new autopilot and ludicrous capabilities, and end it by saying "you can now go and configure your model X with the new design studio on the Tesla website starting now." With the number of back-orders currently placed, Tesla does not NEED to host an event to hype the official X launch, but I think it would be really cool and attract a huge audience that may have been unaware.
Indeed. I posted earlier that this, as well as the earlier Model X CAD drawing, were both likely taken down for legitimate reasons, and some wanted to argue that because the post was not "property" of Tesla's it didn't warrant being pulled.
I believe we could be surprised by the high number of deliveries in Q4.
Based on this:
delivered 21,577 units in the first half 2015. Tesla sees third-quarter production and deliveries of about 12,000 vehicles including a few Model X SUVs. That would leave about 16,400 to 21,400 units for the fourth quarter.
So Q4 is adding between 4400 and 9400 cars more than Q3 ... and personally I don't believe the Model-S demand will be the one creating that peak in Q4.
Unfortunately I am ~#10000 if I try to find my position internationally, so probably not this year for me ;-(
Based on this:
delivered 21,577 units in the first half 2015. Tesla sees third-quarter production and deliveries of about 12,000 vehicles including a few Model X SUVs. That would leave about 16,400 to 21,400 units for the fourth quarter.
So Q4 is adding between 4400 and 9400 cars more than Q3 ... and personally I don't believe the Model-S demand will be the one creating that peak in Q4.
Unfortunately I am ~#10000 if I try to find my position internationally, so probably not this year for me ;-(
That is a fair calculation. Thank you for getting back to the meat of things and taking the time to spell it out.
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Since I was the one arguing, I was making a difference between law and TOS. I knew about the TOS and acknowledged it too. Latter can be "legitimate" sure, but not necessarily at all as mandatory as legal reasons, hence much more open to debate.
It certainly sets an interesting precedent what kind of stuff companies could ask to remove from independent forums if for whatever reason they don't like them. You see no problem with that?
Yes
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å
Or maybe Tesla just can't deliver the guided 50-55k cars.
ev-enthusiast
Active Member
Honestly I wonder what people expect from a launch of new complex product like a vehicle.
- Global industry
Maintaining production rate for any vehicle model in any factory aroud the globe is dead difficult with all the parts of the different suppliers, changes made to parts during manufacturing, changes made to assembly line and so on (and this is the same for e.g. a kow volume producer like Porsche as for a high volume producer like Toyota). Just look at the effort other car companies put into this topic to achieve a certain stable production rate, it's a very big effort. Even if you only keep a certain production rate.
A vehicle is not a piece of SW that you just copy infinitely and sell rigth away!
- Tesla Motors
As far as I remember Tesla Motors never experienced that the launch and ramp of any new tech is easy.
The roadster had crazy quality issues right at the beginning of production. I think everybody still remembers the pictures of dozens of newly build roadsters stored in the factory that could not be sold due to severe quality issues.
The Model S had major issues during ramp. This is normal for such a kind of product.
There will be similar issues with Model X, no doubt.
The crazy thing is when people start to say and expect that this launch and ramp process of Model X will work for Tesla Motors like you printing copies of this thread on your printer!
No and that's no surprise never, it's just a very stressfull and hard business that the responsible persons are doing, and it will be successfull in the end.
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Of course it is not a surprise. Hence what OP posted didn't sound implausible at all.
This would have been a very short thread if we'd just said of OP "sounds possible, don't know if it is true of course". In the end, would have been a very fair characterization for the exact reasons you list.
